Without an Excuse 😶

[PeanutGallery]

... Are you not able to see that your caveat that only those who choose Him, means that mostly He failed in what He came to do? Mostly He suffered and died in vain? That God valued man's freedom over His own and more than He valued His Son? What are you so afraid of that you intentionally wear blinders?

Christ died for the sins of the world, God saves those who believe. Scripture vs emotional response.

 

[PeanutGallery]

I did. I will do it again.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."
John 6:64-65 "Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted him by the Father."
John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.
John 17:1-2 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to whom you have given him."

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Romans 8:29-30 For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.

Do you see anything in just those few verses that indicates Jesus died for all men without exception?

Provide verse which states. "Jesus only died for those that God gives Him"

 

[Arial]

Provide verse which states. "Jesus only died for those that God gives Him"" Show me a verse that says, "God is a triune God." Don't be stupid.

SHow me a verse that says "God is a triune God." Don't be stupid. And don't be intentionally blind. It isn't good for you.
If you cannot use logic and reason from those verses that I gave you to arrive at Jesus only died for those God gave Him then I feel sorry for you.

 

[Arial]

Christ died for the sins of the world, God saves those who believe. Scripture vs emotional response.

PROVE YOUR ASSERTION!!!. For once could you just do that instead of the above nonsense? Address the posts and scriptures I gave you. For once could you just do that or do you not know how. Do you know down there in a place you don't dare look, that you might be wrong and therefore you can't address what I say in my posts and prove them wrong?

 

[PeanutGallery]

Christ died for the sins of the world, God saves those who believe

PROVE YOUR ASSERTION!!!. ...

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

 

[Arial]

Christ died for the sins of the world, God saves those who believe

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

I know God saves those who believe. That is not the question we are dealing with. And I have already dealt with John 1 and 1 Tim 4. You already posted them. I showed you where they are not saying all people without exception. You ignored what I said then and you still are ignoring it. Show me where I am wrong and how you are right. The scriptures I gave show your assertion is not right. You have not shown me mine is not right. Understand yet? How about you give an exegesis with commentary of those I posted instead of repeating yourself over and over.

 

[PeanutGallery]

... I showed you where they are not saying all people without exception....

What you have done is provide theological eisegesis ; provide verse which states, "Jesus only died for those that God gives Him" as scriptural exegesis.

To clarify. Because you do not believe that Jesus only died for those that God gives Him, ...

 

[ReverendRV]

What you have done is provide theological eisegesis ; provide verse which states, "Jesus only died for those that God gives Him" as scriptural exegesis.

There is no such relevant thing known as Theological Eisegesis; just Theology or Eisegesis...

Category Mistakes...

 

[Josheb]

There is no such relevant thing known as Theological Eisegesis...

....except as an oxymoron.

Had to wait until my sides stopped hurting before I could post that. I'm still waiting for the scripture proving an unsaved person is familiar with the theology of Limited Atonement and responds with an excuse! Good thing I wasn't holding my breath .

 

[ReverendRV]

....except as an oxymoron.

Had to wait until my sides stopped hurting before I could post that. I'm still waiting for the scripture proving an unsaved person is familiar with the theology of Limited Atonement and responds with an excuse! Good thing I wasn't holding my breath .

I saw y'all laughing, so I edited-to-add...

 

[David1701]

I use Christ's explanation of the Parable of the Sower, to say this. Jesus said if the Seed were not taken from the Trodden Soil, he would have to heal it. The Trodden Soil is Unconditionally Reprobate...

Umm ... no, Jesus didn't say that (the part I've made bold).

I assume that you are referring to Luke 8:12.

Luke 8:12 (VW) Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the Word out of their hearts, that they should not believe and be saved.

This shows the devil's purpose in taking God's word out of these people's hearts: to ensure that they do not believe and get saved. This is absolutely not the same thing as saying that if the devil did not do this, Jesus would have to heal them.

 

[David1701]

Christ died for the sins of the world, God saves those who believe

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
1Tim 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

1Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

This is merely proof-texting. You have provided no explanation as to what these verses mean, in context, nor how they, allegedly, support your case.

Do you honestly think that we don't know these verses? I could tell you what your mistakes of interpretation are (I'm 99% sure), but I'd like to see your explanations, just to be certain.

 

[PeanutGallery]

There is no such relevant thing known as Theological Eisegesis; just Theology or Eisegesis...

Category Mistakes...

Eisegesis is putting your own ideas/presuppositions into scripture; one's ideas/presuppositions come from theology.
Theological Eisegesis fits the bill.

 

[ReverendRV]

Eisegesis is putting your own ideas/presuppositions into scripture; one's ideas/presuppositions come from theology.
Theological Eisegesis fits the bill.

Yes, Eisegesis is putting your own ideas into Scripture; but Systematic Theology isn't a Private Interpretation. Systematic Theology is Exegetical; but never Eisegetical...

The 'Ancient Aliens' Show Eisegetes Scripture, right? By definition, Theology cannot Eisegete...

1) This is the Private Debate Board; only the agreed upon Participants are invited to Debates occurring here. Before Debate starts, all participants should acknowledge they've read these Rules. Topics should be short and percise, and pertain to Calvinism's Doctrines; or closely related Topics. Theology is a Valid form of Argumentation. You will be Debating Soteriology, not Bibliology; IE, a Verbatim Verse is not needed to Score Points. Theology will not be called Eisegesis. Staying on Topic is necessary, and changing the Subject can be considered a Foul (IE changing a Topic from Unconditional Election to Unconditional Reprobation, etc). Fouls may also be called for Rudeness, long Posts, not answering questions, etc; anything your Moderator considers to be out of bounds under these Rules... https://christcentered.community.fo...-in-having-a-moderated-debate.1356/post-53951

 

[Ladodgers6]

All men are given light; but not all believe.

There is Scripture for this comment?

And is natural revelation the same as Gospel revelation?

 

[PeanutGallery]

Yes, Eisegesis is putting your own ideas into Scripture; but Systematic Theology isn't a Private Interpretation. Systematic Theology is Exegetical; but never Eisegetical......

Got it:
Reading scripture through the lens of Systematic Theology is exegesis.
Reading scripture in context with itself is eisegesis.

 

[Mr GLee]

Actually, synergism is works righteousness.

Synergism good word, the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects

The promised 3 day and night outward demonstration of our unseen Father. The demonstration of the powerful Father and Son of man, Jesus (Dying mankind) walking together as one .The Elohim in Genesis 2. Two is the witness one God has spoken .Three or more a "crowd" .

Emmanuel God with us. . not God is us .

 

[Arial]

What you have done is provide theological eisegesis ; provide verse which states, "Jesus only died for those that God gives Him" as scriptural exegesis.

I don't think you know the meaning of eisegesis or exegesis and you didn't answer the question or respond to what I posted. And since you have no intention of doing do I have no interest in talking to you further.

Eisegesis: prefix"eis" means into

1. A subjective method of interpretation by introducing one's own opinions into the original: opposed to exegesis.
2. An interpretation, especially of Scripture, that reflects the personal ideas or viewpoint of the interpreter; reading something into a text that isn't there.

Exegesis: Prefix "ex" means out of.

1. Critical explanation or analysis, especially of a text.
2. The exposition or interpretation of any literary production or passage; more particularly, the exposition or interpretation of Scripture.

 

[Arial]

What you have done is provide theological eisegesis ; provide verse which states, "Jesus only died for those that God gives Him" as scriptural exegesis.

One more question. Read these texts that I gave in answer to what you asked.

John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
John 6:44 "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day."
John 6:64-65 "Yet there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him. He went on to say, "This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted him by the Father."
John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.
John 17:1-2 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to whom you have given him."

Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Romans 8:29-30 For those whom He foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, in order that He might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.

Now, tell me WHAT THEY MEAN. I will be waiting.

Exegesis of these texts and any other text that you would use to contradict the teaching that the atonement was definite and not for all men without exception, demands this. Otherwise they are merely texts you use that you have read your beliefs into without consideration of any other part of the Bible. Which btw never contradicts itself. And that is eisegesis as well as selective blindness. Accusing someone of doing what you and only you are doing in the exchange, does not change that. What it is, is not really caring about the truth but holding onto, with all your might (all your heart and strength and mind) to your traditions---the doctrines of men.

 

[Mr GLee]

There is Scripture for this comment?

And is natural revelation the same as Gospel revelation?

Hi I would offer.

Many hear the gospel call but few are elected or chosen by God who is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul desires. No man can turn Him (Job 23)

Matthew 20:16So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

Matthew 22:14For many are called, but few are chosen.

Job 23 :12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary food. But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.For he performeth the thing that is appointed for me: and many such things are with him.Therefore am I troubled at his presence: when I consider, I am afraid of him. For God maketh my heart soft, and the Almighty troubleth me

We should ask ourselves. Who makes or creates in us new soft heart and what makes it soft?

I would think that which could soften is the water of the word, inspired from above falls down like rain, the water of the word and bringing new life on earth . .the doctrines of the Holy Spirt. (Deuteronomy 32 : 1-2)

I would offer as usual the "mystery of faith". .the power of God's labor of love as a work of His powerful faith .It is misunderstood by many.

Many misunderstand in so much that it is a work of God or labor of His love and not of our own selves .We had no faith as a power that could please him prior to him creating in us a new heart (soft)

Many hear the gospel call but do not mix faith the unseen things the power of eternal God. . mixed. . . with the temporal literal things of this world or historical, The gospel understanding hid in aparles form the lost reveald to us.

Hebrews 4 King James Version4:1-2 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

The non believers focus is on the temporal, literal, historical and not the unseen eternal things of Christ's faith .

The mixing formula needed to rightly divide the parables (20/20 prescription) is given to us freely below . He did not leave us as orphans without the tools needed to rightful divide the parables giving us a tool be which we could seek after him in order to have his unseen promised approval. The loving commandant to study rightly dividing the parables ( 2 Timothy 2:15)

2 Corinthians 4:17-18 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

No mixing recipe. . no gospel rest. Yoked with him we can rest

The Lord used the whole period of times KIngs in Israel as a parable, the signified or poetic tongue of Christ. Until the time of the first century reformation. Restoring the order of God. as King of kings reigning from heaven.

Many from my experience deny the first century reformation and focus more on the 15th century. The first is the pattern .Any other carbon copies .

Again the first century set the standard by which we could judge the 15th .

Sola scriptura the final authority in matters of the faith of Christ's labor of love . . . in any generation or family where two or three gather under the hearing of the gospel of Emanuel, God yoked with us, not God is us

Hebrew 9:8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, (the use of metaphors) that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Which was a figure (parable) for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, (as a shadow )imposed on them until the time of reformation.