Why did Jesus?

[Arial]

Of course! But I'm not sure what the relevance is to what we are discussing. WHAT exactly was being missed by using the close-up lens? I'm not getting your point.

Not much I can do about that.

 

[fastfredy0]

Not so sure. Physical death is the natural result of the curse upon the physical, due to Adam's sin.

Agreed.
Spiritual death is caused by sin too IMO

We do know God does not change.

Agreed. It's on of premises (laws?) i base a lot of my guesses for a question like the one on the post.

 

[makesends]

Why would one assume that Jesus deteriorated? What reason would there be that was pertinent to anything?

It seems to me natural to assume one born of men is, except for where declared to be sinless, subject to what they all are subject to.

 

[makesends]

Not much I can do about that.

I guess not. Oh well.

 

[makesends]

Agreed.
Spiritual death is caused by sin too IMO



Agreed. It's on of premises (laws?) i base a lot of my guesses for a question like the one on the post.

Yes, quite.

 

[Arial]

I guess not. Oh well.

I did not mean to sound so abrupt. It is just that trying to explain what I meant was a bit like trying to describe what something smells like. It can only be done by comparing it to something else, which still leaves the one hearing the description with what it produces in their mind, not what is in the other person's mind.
I will try this morning with a mind uncluttered by all the events and actions of the day.
A wide angle lens and a close up lens are things attached to a camera that changes the focus of what the eye sees to what the camera picks up. Let's say one is standing in meadow at a distance from a forest. Just inside the edge of that forest is an orange poppy the person wishes to photograph. They snap on the zoom lens. The resulting picture has the poppy in clear focus and the rest of the forest a blur of color and shape as though there were no forest there. Since the view to the eye is quite beautiful in its majesty, the photographer removes the zoom and replaces it with a wide angle/panoramic lens. That photo tells a whole different story and the poppy if seen at all is merely a tiny orange dot.

When the condition of us is seen as our spiritual death as being the problem, and that is where I focus lies---on us---the majesty and glory of God is blurred by this closeup focus and we become the central issue. If we put on that wide angle lens to get the full picture of God in redemption our focus now becomes Him and we recognize our smallness, see His holiness for what it is, and how far we are from it and why. The issue then is not our spiritual deadness, a term which itself is so ambiguous as to change that focus to closeup, and our need to be made spiritually alive, (again ambiguous uncatchable language) but our sin. Our rebellion against our holy Maker. Our treason against the One to whom we owe our very life and all the blessings and mercy in it. The One in whom we live, and move, and have our being. The One in whom we were created in His very image and likeness and who were created to actually bear that image and likeness in allegorical form in all we do, and think, and say.

We see it is our sin that lives in our very nature, that has us so bound in chains that we do not even desire to be loyal in all our ways to our King, and even if we did, we could not. And it is our sin that we need a Redeemer, a Rescuer, to come and remove from us, that we might worship and obey this Majesty and Glory and Holiness. That we might dwell beneath the shadow of His wings. We see it is God we need, not spiritual life. We need life period, seeing as how we are dead in our trespasses and sins. Doomed to face the judgement and wrath of this Holy and majestic all powerful, all knowing, all seeing Creator of the universe. We see we need the Lifegiver to quicken us again to life. We see the big picture, not the tiny orange dot barely visible because our focus has changed.

 

[Bluedragon]

He was like us in all ways but no sin. Therefore he should not age. So why did he? And think about it, the Second Person of the Trinity. So much more than unfallen Adam. This is God we are talking about.

I have an idea but I’ll wait.?

He came to meet all prophecy. Therefore he was born of a virgin. Grew to experience life as man experienced it. Was baptised and began his ministry. Was tempted as man is tempted. Met all the prophecies then rose from the dead to fulfill the promise to man. God to man ....

 

[Deleted member 5]

I disagree. Christ is 100% divine.

I would rather say He is fully God and fully man. R C Sproul explained it this way rather than using the 100%/100% explanation.

 

[Marilyn C]

We all know that we die because of sin, we get sick because of sin, and we age because of sin.

Question?

Jesus was holy, pure and sinless.
So, why did he age?

Aged? He just came to maturity. The Father prepared a body for Him, (Heb. 10: 5) but it was not a fallen body. I believe if He had kept living He would still be 30 ish.

Also, Jesus only had one nature - divine - faithful, long suffering, gentle, kind, compassionate, merciful, wise, holy, etc.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

We all know that we die because of sin, we get sick because of sin, and we age because of sin.

Question?

Jesus was holy, pure and sinless.
So, why did he age?

On what do you base aging as being caused by sin? The Bible seems to have a high view of the aged.

Also...

All creation is under a curse now because of the fall of man. Man is part of that creation so the wearing of time upon the body may not be a natural thing but part of the curse.

Also...

To be fruitful and multiply all of God's creations must mature. This includes man. Adam and Eve were created ( along with, we must assume, all other creatures *and* the earth itself ) as mature enough to reproduce. Then the "natural" order of aging would be in play for the offspring.

Also...

The Tree of Life was hidden away in the Garden and a guard placed upon it. So some sort of limit on the lifespan was "natural" and not sinful from the beginning. But life could be extended indefinitely.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Carbon]

On what do you base aging as being caused by sin? The Bible seems to have a high view of the aged.

Also...

All creation is under a curse now because of the fall of man. Man is part of that creation so the wearing of time upon the body may not be a natural thing but part of the curse.

Also...

To be fruitful and multiply all of God's creations must mature. This includes man. Adam and Eve were created ( along with, we must assume, all other creatures *and* the earth itself ) as mature enough to reproduce. Then the "natural" order of aging would be in play for the offspring.

Also...

The Tree of Life was hidden away in the Garden and a guard placed upon it. So some sort of limit on the lifespan was "natural" and not sinful from the beginning. But life could be extended indefinitely.

Just my thoughts.

After reading your reply here and thinking about it for a while, I believe what you say makes sense and you are right. I stand corrected.

Thanks brother

 

[GeneZ]

He was like us in all ways but no sin. Therefore he should not age. So why did he? And think about it, the Second Person of the Trinity. So much more than unfallen Adam. This is God we are talking about.

I have an idea but I’ll wait.?

Don't confuse His Deity for His humanity. Only his humanity aged. As God He would never age.

Also.. men who were fallen lived to be over 900 years old. Imagine how old they could have reached if they had no sin body?

And, keep in mind, the Tree of Life once eaten would make one to life forever.
That tree was there for Adam's taking if he had never sinned.

 

[Bluedragon]

Don't confuse His Deity for His humanity. Only his humanity aged. As God He would never age.

Also.. men who were fallen lived to be over 900 years old. Imagine how old they could have reached if they had no sin body?

And, keep in mind, the Tree of Life once eaten would make one to life forever.
That tree was there for Adam's taking if he had never sinned.

Can't leap frog realities. Adam and Eve were ageless, until Eve fell to temptation. Adam fell as well considering the tree of life was the only tree of it's kind in garden No other tree and no other fruit looked like that ......He knew what he was doing. Consider that Satan is very convincing, after all he convinced one third of the angels to think as he did .....With the reality in mind ......no one except Adam and Eve were going to live 900 years ....Until God told them to grow and multiply ....

 

[GeneZ]

Can't leap frog realities. Adam and Eve were ageless, until Eve fell to temptation. Adam fell as well considering the tree of life was the only tree of it's kind in garden No other tree and no other fruit looked like that ......He knew what he was doing. Consider that Satan is very convincing, after all he convinced one third of the angels to think as he did .....With the reality in mind ......no one except Adam and Eve were going to live 900 years ....Until God told them to grow and multiply ....

What do you mean by "ageless"?

 

[Bluedragon]

What do you mean by "ageless"?

If, BIG IF!, Eve had not been deceived by Satan and Adam the same ....He knew what was on the Tree of life ....Adam and Eve would have never died. What was existing to kill or harm them? NOTHING. No disease, no animal, no man ......nothing. They were created, already Man and Woman. They knew no aging ....When God ran them out of the garden due to the sin .......all the protections of heaven stayed in the Garden ....

Based on your theory ......The Tree of life would have been an ageless life. They were forbidden to eat of the tree and already knew nothing about ageing. The Tree of Life was the exact opposite .......It brought death instead of eternal life.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

We all know that we die because of sin, we get sick because of sin, and we age because of sin.

Question?

Jesus was holy, pure and sinless.
So, why did he age?

You'd rather him remain a baby????

 

[EarlyActs]

You'd rather him remain a baby????

To answer Carbon, he was vicariously taking on our sin. Is 53 focuses on the crucifixion, but by way of background, says that he was not attractive, a man of sorrows, acquainted with grief. I've seen those; pretty worn.

 

[GeneZ]

If, BIG IF!, Eve had not been deceived by Satan and Adam the same ....He knew what was on the Tree of life ....Adam and Eve would have never died. What was existing to kill or harm them? NOTHING. No disease, no animal, no man ......nothing. They were created, already Man and Woman. They knew no aging ....When God ran them out of the garden due to the sin .......all the protections of heaven stayed in the Garden ....

Based on your theory ......The Tree of life would have been an ageless life. They were forbidden to eat of the tree and already knew nothing about ageing. The Tree of Life was the exact opposite .......It brought death instead of eternal life.

But you started off saying Adam and Eve were already ageless to begin with. That is why I need for you to clarify.

Bluedragon said:
Can't leap frog realities. Adam and Eve were ageless, until Eve fell to temptation. Adam fell as well considering the tree of life was the only tree of it's kind in garden No other tree and no other fruit looked like that ......He knew what he was doing. Consider that Satan is very convincing, after all he convinced one third of the angels to think as he did .....With the reality in mind ......no one except Adam and Eve were going to live 900 years ....Until God told them to grow and multiply ....

Looks like you are confused a bit and I wonder what it is you are "leap frogging" with, yourself.

Maybe you just need to rephrase what you were trying to say?

 

[Bluedragon]

But you started off saying Adam and Eve were already ageless to begin with. That is why I need for you to clarify.



Looks like you are confused a bit and I wonder what it is you are "leap frogging" with, yourself.

Maybe you just need to rephrase what you were trying to say?

Yeah, I went and looked it up .....Sorry bout that.

Yet, I have no source for why Adam and Eve would die ....

 

[GeneZ]

Yeah, I went and looked it up .....Sorry bout that.

Yet, I have no source for why Adam and Eve would die ....

Some insight into the Hebrew may help end the confusion.

As with everything concerning the Bible that clarifies, there are always agents of resistance that come up with counters.

In spite of that factor we will face in our spiritual warfare I will show you what I was shown that the Hebrew text states.
And, if you Google search you will find others who study Hebrew wonder why the Hebrew does say what it does.

​

"But you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it,
you will surely die.” Gen 2:17​

It could be translated that way as an easy way out. For the real wording is confusing at first glimpse for those not understanding the nature of fallen man.

What we are not told?

The literal Hebrew says... " in dying you shall die." (two deaths!)

Now.. When Adam ate? He did not drop dead physically. He began running around gathering fig leaves with the woman... looking for a place to hide!

So what happened? Did God lie?

Satan watching the whole thing probably was quick to accuse and condemn God for lying. For Adam did not drop dead.

And, in effect? Satan would be condemning and judging himself. For, he is the father of lies! In that way God gets his enemies to condemn themselves - "judge not lest ye be judged" ...

In the mean while? Adam ate. And, immediately died.... spiritually!

And, as a result of entering into spiritual death, and taking on the sin nature in his flesh? It began the process of causing an eventual physical death. Two deaths! "In dying you shall die."

I believe that the Tree of Life was there to be eaten in the event Adam had passed all the tests God would have brought his way.
And, as an achieving reward for faithfulness, God would have had Adam and the woman eat from the Tree of life as to perpetuate their state of proven perfection.


Instead?

Adam believed the lie, and ate the junk food.

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, ​

so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned." Romans 5:12​

​

An interesting factor that the Greek shows about "because all sinned?"

The Greek means that all of us sinned in a single point in time! Constantive aorist.

When Adam ate and sinned? We all sinned in Adam at that moment in time.

Our fate to be born sinners was sealed in the garden in Adam!

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, ​

so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned (when Adam sinned)."

grace and peace .......................