Why Did God Tell Israel That He is One?

[TrevorL]

Greetings Viking123,

Your bibles are altered and filled with errors by Catholicism translating.

I am surprised that you have such a strong opinion against most Bible translations and are so convinced or give the impression that you believe that the NWT is the best and most accurate translation. I suggest that this is part of JW propaganda, accepted without proper consideration by the average JW.

The NWT has been revised a number of times. I purchased the green edition in 1960, bought the black edition in a second hand bookshop and I do not have a copy of the grey edition, but I can now have access to the 2013 edition online and I am not sure if this is the same as the grey edition. Are there any other changes since 2013 (new light)?

I am conscious of a few errors in the NWT and these are as a result of JW doctrinal bias. I suggest that each passage needs to be carefully examined, comparing a number of translations and if necessary using other reference material to properly assess the meaning of individual words and other aspects.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Viking123]

That isn't Trinitarianism.

He created = a single being. 0 trinity exists, Its a creation of blind guides after Jesus and the apostles died.

 

[Viking123]

Greetings Viking123,

I am surprised that you have such a strong opinion against most Bible translations and are so convinced or give the impression that you believe that the NWT is the best and most accurate translation. I suggest that this is part of JW propaganda, accepted without proper consideration by the average JW.

The NWT has been revised a number of times. I purchased the green edition in 1960, bought the black edition in a second hand bookshop and I do not have a copy of the grey edition, but I can now have access to the 2013 edition online and I am not sure if this is the same as the grey edition. Are there any other changes since 2013 (new light)?

I am conscious of a few errors in the NWT and these are as a result of JW doctrinal bias. I suggest that each passage needs to be carefully examined, comparing a number of translations and if necessary using other reference material to properly assess the meaning of individual words and other aspects.

Kind regards
Trevor

Gods kingdom is always moving forward to completion. Some new light, some things just made easier to understand.
Its 100% fact-Jerome used a corrupted latin version to do the latin Vulgate. Then the codex sinacticus was done after that in the 4th century. All trinity bibles were done bout of Catholicism translating= corrupted and they as well altered Gods bible by removing his name against Gods will, that alone ought to make one question why. The answer is TO mislead. It was satan who wanted Gods name removed. God willed his name in over 7000 places because he wants it there. The blind guides condemned the NWT for putting Gods name back-Why? Because with that name back in it exposes the trinity religions as false.

 

[Fred]

He created = a single being. 0 trinity exists, Its a creation of blind guides after Jesus and the apostles died.

Total dodge of your false claim

 

[Fred]

Gods kingdom is always moving forward to completion. Some new light, some things just made easier to understand.
Its 100% fact-Jerome used a corrupted latin version to do the latin Vulgate. Then the codex sinacticus was done after that in the 4th century. All trinity bibles were done bout of Catholicism translating= corrupted and they as well altered Gods bible by removing his name against Gods will, that alone ought to make one question why. The answer is TO mislead. It was satan who wanted Gods name removed. God willed his name in over 7000 places because he wants it there. The blind guides condemned the NWT for putting Gods name back-Why?

Supply the name or names of any Greek manuscript(s) that back up your claim.

 

[Viking123]

Total dodge of your false claim

God will show the whole world. He promised in Ezekial about 20 x--They will have to know, i am YHVH(Jehovah)--see-he said I ( not we)

 

[Fred]

God will show the whole world. He promised in Ezekial about 20 x--They will have to know, i am YHVH(Jehovah)

Brainwashed.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Viking123,

they as well altered Gods bible by removing his name against Gods will, that alone ought to make one question why. The answer is TO mislead. It was satan who wanted Gods name removed. God willed his name in over 7000 places because he wants it there. The blind guides condemned the NWT for putting Gods name back

I agree with the need to understand God's Name and I am very happy with using "Yahweh" when I read "the LORD" in the OT portion of the KJV/ RV Interlinear which is the Bible I read from each day. My impression of why the KJV and other translations "omitted" the Name is different to your assessment and I agree with some aspects of their decision. I consider that understanding the meaning of the Name YHWH is much more important than using the Name. Like any Bible subject there is a need for careful examination, and seeing you raise the subject I consider that "Jehovah" which JWs use almost exclusively is an erroneous representation of God's Name, as clearly stated in JW literature.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Arial]

He created = a single being. 0 trinity exists, Its a creation of blind guides after Jesus and the apostles died.

Forum Rules​

22:
Please keep in mind if you are not an orthodox Christian (the Trinity being central to the orthodox faith), and you are in the Trinity forum, you are allowed to ask questions, disagree and even deny but you are not allowed to attack the doctrine and conduct yourself as if you are teaching truth and correcting others. If you would like to discuss your beliefs, do so, but not in a way of attacking the Trinity or Christ. This goes for all those who deny the Trinity.

 

[Arial]

Gods kingdom is always moving forward to completion. Some new light, some things just made easier to understand.
Its 100% fact-Jerome used a corrupted latin version to do the latin Vulgate. Then the codex sinacticus was done after that in the 4th century. All trinity bibles were done bout of Catholicism translating= corrupted and they as well altered Gods bible by removing his name against Gods will, that alone ought to make one question why. The answer is TO mislead. It was satan who wanted Gods name removed. God willed his name in over 7000 places because he wants it there. The blind guides condemned the NWT for putting Gods name back-Why? Because with that name back in it exposes the trinity religions as false.

Forum Rules​

22:
Please keep in mind if you are not an orthodox Christian (the Trinity being central to the orthodox faith), and you are in the Trinity forum, you are allowed to ask questions, disagree and even deny but you are not allowed to attack the doctrine and conduct yourself as if you are teaching truth and correcting others. If you would like to discuss your beliefs, do so, but not in a way of attacking the Trinity or Christ. This goes for all those who deny the Trinity.

 

[Viking123]

Greetings again Viking123,

I agree with the need to understand God's Name and I am very happy with using "Yahweh" when I read "the LORD" in the OT portion of the KJV/ RV Interlinear which is the Bible I read from each day. My impression of why the KJV and other translations "omitted" the Name is different to your assessment and I agree with some aspects of their decision. I consider that understanding the meaning of the Name YHWH is much more important than using the Name. Like any Bible subject there is a need for careful examination, and seeing you raise the subject I consider that "Jehovah" which JWs use almost exclusively is an erroneous representation of God's Name, as clearly stated in JW literature.

Kind regards
Trevor

Actually they do not know if YHWH or YHVH is correct.
God is 100% capable of making sure his name is known.
Calling Gods name erroneous makes one being mislead to stand in opposition.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Viking123,

Actually they do not know if YHWH or YHVH is correct.

I appreciate your response. I do not consider the exact spelling or pronunciation is important, but I consider the rendition "Jehovah" is erroneous.

The following JW article gives some indication of how the erroneous form "Jehovah" occurred:
The article “Jehovah” is in the JW Book Aid to Bible Understanding, pages 882-895. The following are a few excerpts that I found to be relevant to what you are saying:

Page 882: “Jehovah” is the best known English pronunciation of the divine name, but “Yahweh” is preferred by most scholars.

Page 884: The time did come, however, when in reading the Hebrew Scriptures in the original language, the Jewish reader substituted either ‘Adho-nay’ (Lord) or ‘Elo-him’ (God) rather than pronounce the divine name represented by the Tetragrammaton. This is seen from the fact that when vowel pointing came into use in the second half of the first millennium C.E. the Jewish copyists inserted the vowel points for either ‘Adho-nay’ or ‘Elo-him’ into the Tetragrammaton, evidently to warn the reader to say those words in place of pronouncing the divine name.

Pages 884-885: The pronunciations “Jehovah” and “Yahweh”: By combining the vowel signs of ‘Adho-nay’ and ‘Elo-him’ with the four consonants of the Tetragrammaton the pronunciations ‘Yeho-wah’ and ‘Yeho-wih’ were formed. The first of these provided the basis for the Latinised form “Jehova(h)”. The first recorded use of this form dates from the thirteenth century C.E. Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican Order, used it in his book Pugco Fidei of the year 1270. Hebrew scholars generally favour “Yahweh” as the most likely pronunciation.

Page 888: Moses raised the question: “Suppose I am now come to the sons of Israel and I do say to them, ‘The God of your forefathers has sent me to you,’ and they do say to me ‘What is his name?’ What shall I say to them?” … Moses’ question was a meaningful one. God’s reply in Hebrew was “’Eh-yeh’ asher eh-yeh’.” While some translations render this as “I AM THAT I AM,” the Hebrew verb (ha-yah’) from which the word ‘eh-yeh’ is drawn does not mean simply to exist. Rather, it means to come into existence, to happen, occur, become, take on (an attribute), enter upon (a state), or constitute. Thus, the footnote of the Revised Standard Version gives as one reading “I Will Be What I Will Be”.

God is 100% capable of making sure his name is known.

Yes, but this will not be fulfilled by the JW's use and publicity of the erroneous rendition "Jehovah".

Calling Gods name erroneous makes one being mislead to stand in opposition.

God's Name is not erroneous. The use of "Jehovah" by the JW's perpetuates an error.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TMSO]

Your bibles are altered and filled with errors by Catholicism translating.
No son is his Father. They are both individuals. Jesus is Gods image, an image is never the real thing.
The codex sinacticus is the oldest Greek, except for a few minor fragments. Catholicism translated the Codex sinacticus. Writings say Constantine stole it and removed some passages. He most likely altered some as well to fit false council teachings.
Jerome prior to the Codex translated the Latin Vulgate from a corrupted previous Latin translation. What was the Codex translated from--most likely the Vulgate.

The King James is stuck on solely those manuscripts. Other translations used a plethora of other Greek texts. Hence they differ in places from the King James. Hence the King James only won't have anything to do with other translations. They are corrupt because they used different sources. I do scratch my head as to how you believe any son born on Earth isn't human. I mean, that doesn't follow what we actually observe. Jesus is God's SON. In the LIKENESS OF. What is God's likeness? God.

 

[Red Baker]

God revealing himself as One is not about his manner of being, whether or not he is triune. It is about there being no other gods but him. It is not until the NT and the coming of Christ, that his tiunity is more clearly revealed by what Christ does. And then, when we see that we see that it was there all along in the OT too, especially in the Messianic writings.

Sister, I respectfully disagree with you.

God is a Spirit, period. That will never change. Thereby, he is One Lord God, whose name is Jehovah.

God has chosen to reveal himself to us as three, "only" according to the work of redemption. There is One God, manifested as three, but, still one God.

1 Corinthians 8:4​

“As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.”

Jesus Christ is the true God and eternal life, when we see Jesus, then we shall see God, the only God we shall ever see. God is a Spirit that lives in eternity, always has, always will. Jesus Christ in his humanity will be subject unto God after all things are fulfilled~yet, as God manifest in the flesh, he shall reign world without end as the MIGHTY GOD, the everlasting Father of all things. Then shall the saying that is written be fulfilled:

Matthew 5:8​

“Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”

Truly, Jesus Christ is not the second person of the trinity, but he is God without qualifications in his deity~there's one exception..... his humanity~thereby, Jesus is God, but God is not Jesus Christ!

Truly no man or angels have ever seen God, except in the person of Jesus Christ.

John 1:18​

“No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.”

1st John 4:12​

“No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.”

 

[Arial]

God is a Spirit, period. That will never change. Thereby, he is One Lord God, whose name is Jehovah.

God is God period and he is spirit, as opposed to material. And his name is Yahweh.

God has chosen to reveal himself to us as three, only according to the work of redemption. There is One God, manifested as three, but, still one God.

Then who are the "us" at creation? Who is the Word that was with God and was God and became flesh?
Who is the Comforter who Jesus sends when he leaves so we won't be left as orphans? Who is the Father that Jesus prays to?

Respectfully, I stick to my guns on this and say that if you read very carefully, taking the historic setting into consideration, God speaking and acting in preparation for the Exodus, you will see that he was establishing himself for Israel's knowledge, that there were not many gods. All the gods of the nation they dwelled in for over four hundred years, and those of all the nations surrounding them, were deaf, dumb, blind, stationary. made by human hands. They could hear nothing, see nothing, could not speak, could not move, could not act.

"There is only one God," he is saying. "I made everything, I govern everything, even though I am transcendent, I enter into history for redemption. I make covenant with who I want to make covenant with and I always do as I say. I have all power and all say so over everything. Worship me alone. Trust me alone."

 

[Red Baker]

God is God period and he is spirit, as opposed to material. And his name is Yahweh.

Exodus 6:3​

“And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.”

Psalms 83:18​

“That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.”

Maybe more on this later, and there is so much more~it is not even debatable, or, at least it should not be.

Then who are the "us" at creation?

Angels were created before man, so I take that to be them. We are not told how soon before man, yet they were created before, that's all we know~maybe just before man~I say that for this reason....the non-elect angels were left to themselves without God securing them in their first estate in which he created them, so I'm convinced it was the same time, but before man.

One truth I'm 100% sure of, is that Jesus Christ was not eternally generated by God and the Holy Spirit proceeded from Christ as the RCC blasphemy teach ~ for that would destroy his deity as the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last!

Who is the Comforter who Jesus sends when he leaves so we won't be left as orphans?

The Spirit of God, who is God period. God is a Spirit, he is omnipresent, there is no place where God is not present. Unless he desires not to be.

Who is the Father that Jesus prays to?

The Holy Ghost, who over shallowed Mary and conceived in her, His Son, Jesus. The only begotten Son that we have God's testimony concerning as to WHEN God's Son was conceived and born. Up until then God did not have a Son, only in his eternal purposes did he purpose to have one, which actually took place in Bethlehem Euphrates around two thousand years ago. Was he born, even though his going forth is from everlasting! A truth the Jews did not understand~it was hidden form them, just like it is today toward many.

Micah 5:2​

“But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.”
The Word in the beginning was manifest in the flesh in the person of Jesus Christ, when the Word joined the tabernacle of Jesus and lived in this world for around thirty three years. Jesus was indeed God, but God was not Jesus, he remained who he has ever been~a Spirit that lives in eternity.

This One God has chosen to manifest himself as three according to the work of redemption.

2nd Corinthians 13:14​

“The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

 

[Arial]

Exodus 6:3​

“And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.”

New International Version
I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself fully known to them.


English Standard Version
I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by my name the LORD I did not make myself known to them

New King James Version
I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I was not known to them.


New American Standard Bible
and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God Almighty, but by My name, LORD, I did not make Myself known to them.

And so on and so on. Many misguided doctrines and ideas are made by KJV only Bible reading.
biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-artifacts/inscriptions/the-history-of-the-tetragrammaton/
It is this four-letter Hebrew word that William Tyndale would eventually translate into the name Jehovah. Unfortunately, Tyndale was unfamiliar with the word’s history.




Because of the perceived holiness of God’s name, many observent Jews never uttered it aloud. Instead, they say haShem (“the name”) or Adonai (“my Lord”), a tradition that dated back to at least the Hellenistic period (c. 332–37 BCE). This was so important that when the Hebrew vowel system was invented in the Middle Ages, the rabbis that penned the scriptures chose to add the vowels for Adonai onto the Tetragrammaton as a reminder not to say God’s true name out loud. It was these Hebrew texts that Tyndale used to make his translations, which ultimately became the basis for the Old Testament of the King James Version of the Bible in 1611. And the rest is history.


gotquestions.org/Jehovah.html

The vast majority of Jewish and Christian biblical scholars and linguists do not believe “Jehovah” to be the proper pronunciation of YHWH. There was no true J sound in ancient Hebrew. Even the Hebrew letter vav, which is transliterated as the W in YHWH is said to have originally had a pronunciation closer to W than the V of Jehovah. Jehovah is essentially a Germanic pronunciation of the Latinized transliteration of the Hebrew YHWH. It is the letters of the tetragrammaton, Latinized into JHVH, with vowels inserted. “Yahweh” or “Yehowah” is far more likely to be the correct pronunciation.

 

[Arial]

Angels were created before man, so I take that to be them.

There is, however, no biblical reason to take it that way. The Spirit (always the Holy Spirit when capitalized, as that is consistent with that usage throughout Scripture, is mentioned. And we find that Jesus was also there and active in creation in 1 Cor 8:6; Col 1:15-17; John 1:3; Heb 1:2.

We are not told how soon before man, yet they were created before, that's all we know~maybe just before man~I say that for this reason....the non-elect angels were left to themselves without God securing them in their first estate in which he created them, so I'm convinced it was the same time, but before man.

The Bible says nothing about elect and non-elect angels, but this is irrelevant to the conversation, and is pure speculation.

One truth I'm 100% sure of, is that Jesus Christ was not eternally generated by God and the Holy Spirit proceeded from Christ as the RCC blasphemy teach ~ for that would destroy his deity as the Alpha and Omega, the first and the last!

We are not concerned here with what the RCC teaches and "eternally generated by God" needs to be defined.
opc.org/qa.html?question_id=536

 

[Viking123]

Greetings again Viking123,

I appreciate your response. I do not consider the exact spelling or pronunciation is important, but I consider the rendition "Jehovah" is erroneous.

The following JW article gives some indication of how the erroneous form "Jehovah" occurred:
The article “Jehovah” is in the JW Book Aid to Bible Understanding, pages 882-895. The following are a few excerpts that I found to be relevant to what you are saying:

Page 882: “Jehovah” is the best known English pronunciation of the divine name, but “Yahweh” is preferred by most scholars.

Page 884: The time did come, however, when in reading the Hebrew Scriptures in the original language, the Jewish reader substituted either ‘Adho-nay’ (Lord) or ‘Elo-him’ (God) rather than pronounce the divine name represented by the Tetragrammaton. This is seen from the fact that when vowel pointing came into use in the second half of the first millennium C.E. the Jewish copyists inserted the vowel points for either ‘Adho-nay’ or ‘Elo-him’ into the Tetragrammaton, evidently to warn the reader to say those words in place of pronouncing the divine name.

Pages 884-885: The pronunciations “Jehovah” and “Yahweh”: By combining the vowel signs of ‘Adho-nay’ and ‘Elo-him’ with the four consonants of the Tetragrammaton the pronunciations ‘Yeho-wah’ and ‘Yeho-wih’ were formed. The first of these provided the basis for the Latinised form “Jehova(h)”. The first recorded use of this form dates from the thirteenth century C.E. Raymundus Martini, a Spanish monk of the Dominican Order, used it in his book Pugco Fidei of the year 1270. Hebrew scholars generally favour “Yahweh” as the most likely pronunciation.

Page 888: Moses raised the question: “Suppose I am now come to the sons of Israel and I do say to them, ‘The God of your forefathers has sent me to you,’ and they do say to me ‘What is his name?’ What shall I say to them?” … Moses’ question was a meaningful one. God’s reply in Hebrew was “’Eh-yeh’ asher eh-yeh’.” While some translations render this as “I AM THAT I AM,” the Hebrew verb (ha-yah’) from which the word ‘eh-yeh’ is drawn does not mean simply to exist. Rather, it means to come into existence, to happen, occur, become, take on (an attribute), enter upon (a state), or constitute. Thus, the footnote of the Revised Standard Version gives as one reading “I Will Be What I Will Be”.

Yes, but this will not be fulfilled by the JW's use and publicity of the erroneous rendition "Jehovah".

God's Name is not erroneous. The use of "Jehovah" by the JW's perpetuates an error.

Kind regards
Trevor

The world will find out its not error-Jehovah is the true living God.

 

[Viking123]

The King James is stuck on solely those manuscripts. Other translations used a plethora of other Greek texts. Hence they differ in places from the King James. Hence the King James only won't have anything to do with other translations. They are corrupt because they used different sources. I do scratch my head as to how you believe any son born on Earth isn't human. I mean, that doesn't follow what we actually observe. Jesus is God's SON. In the LIKENESS OF. What is God's likeness? God.

The codex sinacticus is the oldest Greek text known( catholicism translating) a very few older fragments are known but not many. Thus all other Greek texts were done from Catholicism translating.