Who are God's chosen People?

[Hazelelponi]

What do you think we'll be doing in heaven? I certainly hope we won't be sitting on a cloud playing harps.

No time would equal no boredom I imagine.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I completely agree.

The problem is the nation of Israel in the Bible was not much better. They constantly disobeyed God, were adulterous and idolatrous, and chronically so despite God repeatedly providing an opportunity to repent and obey. God eventually divorced Himself from the nation because of their chronic covenant-breaking.

We are the same, have you noticed? Is the visible church any better than visible national Israel of Jesus' time?

I think not.

I was raised in the US, lived around Christians, it took 42 years to find one person to adequately explain salvation to me...

We are not better, they are not better. We are just saved, and repentant, and being sanctified.

Within the chronically covenant-breaking nation there existed those chosen by God who lived by faith. They, and not the nation, were, and have always been, God's people. Not all descended from Israel are descendants of Israel. The Jews made the mistake thinking they were. And that is why Jerusalem and the (non-existent at that time) nation was destroyed in 70 AD. Before that happened God revealed the identity of His chosen people (as described in this op).

And God will judge us just the same if we don't keep the faith appropriately.

 

[Josheb]

We are the same, have you noticed?

You'll have to clarify that sameness before I can answer that question.

Is the visible church any better than visible national Israel of Jesus' time?

I reject the notion of a "visible" and an "invisible" church. I understand w=how the terms came about and the purpose those labels serve, but I do not find them consistent with scripture. There is only one Church in the Bible, those called out, the saints, the body of Christ - whether visible or invisible. The person sitting in the pew next to me who does not believe in Jesus, especially those who claim some allegiance to the name but have not been born anew from above is not the Church. If a comparison between Old and New were to be made, the poseur is comparable to the Israel that is not Israel. They are not God's chosen people.

I think not.

I think not, too. Comparing the Church to geo-political nation-state Israel would be a false equivalence...... except for those in that nation-state who lived by faith in the Christological covenant promises as described in the New Testament epistolary.

We are not better, they are not better. We are just saved, and repentant, and being sanctified.

.....they are not saved, or repentant, nor are they being sanctified. There are no Jews or Gentiles in Christ Jesus.

And God will judge us just the same if we don't keep the faith appropriately.

Hmmm..., not quite.

Everyone gets judged......
.....but the judgment has already been given (John 3:18-19).
Those not believing in Jesus already stand condemned....
....but there is now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:1).

Therefore, when we talk about "Judgment Day," what we are more accurately talking about is "Sentencing Day;" the day when God metes out the just recompense for sin.... or faith. God is not mocked. A person reaps what s/he sows. Those who sow to the flesh reap destruction, and those who sow to the Spirit reap eternal life. It is God who works in the saint to will and work for His good pleasure (Php. 2:13). We do not do that merely with or in our flesh. If a person does not "keep the faith," then s/he wasn't saved to begin with... BUT "keeping the faith," is defined by God, not us. Paul wrote about how Christ is the only foundation upon which anyone can build. A person can build on that foundation with many things but all of it will be tested by God. If all that work is destroyed that person building on the foundation of Christ will emerge empty handed, charred and covered in soot, but still saved (1 Cor. 3:11-15). It is those not building on Christ that perish and that includes the poseurs who claim to be building on the right foundation but aren't (Mt. 7:21-23).

God is inherently and always a fruit-bearing almighty God who never fails. If God has saved a person, then He will continue and finish His salvific work in that individual's life. S/he will be saved. On the other hand, a person who God has not seen fit to save has never been saved and s/he will not be saved. It's not up to us. Thinking salvation is up to us is the fundamental flaw in synergism. The sinner's will is irrelevant. The sinner's works are irrelevant. Salvation is God's and it is He alone who saves.

We all get judged, but we do not all get judged the same.