Who are God's chosen People?

[Mr GLee]

Thank you for that honest and accurate, timely response, @brightfame52!

The fact that you were forthcoming in saying it is an inference is commendable. Well done. I draw attention to that so others may know it is always best to acknowledge the inference when asked about what is stated.

Where might I find scripture stating the physical nation of Israel was God's covenant people? Where might I find God explicitly telling (not a post hoc inference) the nation it's chosen status was only temporary?

• Are you aware there are only about two dozen verses in the entire Bible that speak of Israel as a nation?
• Are you aware only three of those verses exist in the New Testament?
• Are you aware none of the three New Testament verses speak of Israel as God's chosen people?
• Are you aware that at least one of the New Testament verses mentioning the nation of Israel does so to the exclusion of the nation as God's chosen people?

Just curious

I would offer..

Like many words "Israel" and the word "Jew" both have two kinds of understandings. The spiritual unseen eternal and the literal historical temporal. They must be mixed or no gospel rest (Heb 4:2)

The name Jacob (deceiver) was changed to represent the born-again bride of Christ, Israel. The born-again seed beginning with Abel passed on to Enos another second born to represent the born again seed Christ. It was then when mankind born again began to call on Abba Father

Genesis 4:25-26;And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. and to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then (not before) began men to call upon the name of the Lord.
Christ our Holy Father signified as Abraham the spiritual Father of every nation. Promised a inward Jew (born again) having to do with the new heavenly city prepared for his bride the church.

In Isaiah 62:1-5 the lord prophesied the new creature that he promised to name (Christian) in Acts A more befitting name to name the bride of all the nations of the world . Literally meaning "residents of the heavenly eternal City Christ" . Named after her founder and husband Christ

Some of the outward Jews signified after Jacob (deceiver) tried to use a DNA card to enter Christin fellowship. They were shown the door out

Romans 2:28-29For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:;But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

 

[brightfame52]

Ok, but is THAT 'spiritual Israel' the same 'spiritual Israel' as WE redeemed Gentiles are also?

Yes, but under the OT it was mostly comprised of regenerated jews, though some regenerated gentiles were added from time to time, like Ruth, Rahab etc

 

[brightfame52]

You are bickering and attacking me, instead of discussing the identity of God's chosen people. I have explained why inference-only cases may be incorrect. One of the basic principles of Bible exegesis is to have the literal take precedent over the non-literal (whether that be figurative, allegorical, or inferential). That's not an opinion. In the last two posts I've received, you have chosen to take our exchange off topic with personal derision. I'd prefer we stay on topic, you make the case for your position (even if that means a few corrections have to be made along the way), and we reach some sort of agreement based on well rendered scripture (not just each other).

• Stay on topic
• Make the case, making adjustments as the conversation necessitates
• Reach consensus with scripture

It is completely correct for me to ask if there is something explicit. It's not a tactic. Once the lack of explicitly is mutually acknowledge two (or more) posters can discuss the nature of the inference-only case. Yes, there are some truths garnered from scripture by inference but, comparatively speaking, there is a lot more dross propagated by inference-only reading of scripture. More importantly, ad hominem is never rational. Neither is gaslighting. If the questions asked cannot be answered with explicit statements in scripture, then just say so. I have never attacked anyone for "I do not know," "There is not explicit statement," or "It's an inference and I do not know of any such explicit statement," and you were commended for doing so in this very thread. So, let's give this one more try....

• Where might I find scripture stating the physical nation of Israel was God's chosen people?
• Where might I find God explicitly telling (not a post hoc inference) the nation it's chosen status was only temporary?

If the answer to either question is, "There isn't any such scripture. I reached that position by reading X to imply what I said because _______________," then post that. LWould you please leave the derision out of this conversation? Thank you

You already specified you looking for a specific scripture to say a specific thing, knowing there isnt a scripture that is going to verbatimly say what you demand it to say, thats a debate tatic. Scripture truth is mostly spiritually discerned and not verbatim. For instance a person can say, show me a scripture that says God is a Trinity, since the person demands the word Trinity to be shown, he can always deny the Trinity and say, he never denied scripture.

 

[Josheb]

I think you would agree that the Children of Israel were God's particular nation, upon which to deal in a way he did not with any other. So yes, there is a huge difference between that Israel (the nation) and the spiritual Israel, and a huge typical similarity with them. I'm not at all saying, and I didn't take @brightfame52 to be saying, that old Israel is the same as spiritual Israel, but maybe he is thinking that.

I recently had a lengthy discussion with a Jehovah's witness in another forum in which I expounded upon the premise of "spiritual" Israel (mostly based on the fact scripture never uses that phrase and it's a false dichotomy to make distinction between the physical and spiritual where scripture does not do so. If you like, I can copy some of those posts here.

It is true Israel was a "particular" nation. I used to think Israel was a "holy" nation, but then I searched the scripture and discovered that's not actually what scripture states . Thinking Israel was the holy nation I then thought it's true God chose the nation of Israel. That would be self-evident in Israel being called a "holy" nation. Yes? The word "holy" means "separate" or "separated," and in a religious context it carries with it the connotation of being separated for sacred purpose. Israel was a nation that had been chosen by God and separated from the rest of the world's nations. I thought several verses spoke to this explicitly. Then I search the Bible for the phrase "holy nation and there are only two such texts in the Bible that explicitly use that phrase.

Exodus 19:4-6
You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings, and brought you to Myself. Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."

1 Peter 2:9-10
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

So I adjusted my understanding accordingly. According to God's word, the holy nation is NOT bloodline Israel, or the nation-state of Israel. According to scripture the holy nation is the nation of priests, and that nation of priests are those, according to Peter, who by the Spirit obey Jesus.

God has chosen many things in scripture. He has many "particular" nations. Each particular nation serves God's purpose and that purpose is usually temporary. God chose the particular nation of Egypt to enslave the sons of Israel for 400 years. God chose the particular nation of Babylon as a tool of God's judgment, conquering the nation and sending its people into exile. God did the same with Assyria (both judging the judges of Babylon and judging Israel). Using Joel and Isaiah, Paul explained why the sons of Israel (not bloodline/Lawful/national Israel) was purposed for a time.

Romans 9:3, 25-28
For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever................. As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.”

They were the means by which the gospel, the Law, and the Messiah would come, and the covenant(s) fulfilled. Not once do any of these texts - Old or New - call the nation of Israel God's chosen people.

This op is about the identity of God's chosen people.

But, yes, I agree that the 'already but not yet' nature of the characteristics of the Body of Christ, Spiritual Israel, are hard to distinguish in the temporal vs the eternal. It might be better to consider the difference as temporal vs glorified.

Great. Then I trust the necessity of discernment and proper use of those terms is understood.

But I didn't think that was what Brightfame was referring to.

Do you think @brightfame52 is able to articulate his references without our speculations? I do.

You continue here to sound as though Brightfame's contention is that of temporal (or temporary) Spiritual Israel and the Eternal Israel.

Never said any such thing.

Maybe you are right, but it is useless for me to continue to argue one way or the other about that.

And yet...

I had assumed he was dealing with the temporal Israel as contrasted with the Spiritual Israel. If not, my bad for contributing.

Probably best to let him explain his own posts (and if unable to do so then to re-examine that position).


I am not the subject of this thread. Neither is @brightfame52. The subject of this op is not about the kingdom or who is "particular," or any of the other tangents introduced into the thread. I am happy to read and consider any post about the identity of God's chosen people, but the thread is increasingly drifting away from that topic. I note of the fact this topic has caused some to lose their decorum. That is very common when feel defensive and there's no need for that here. Where people make their case in confidence, safety and self-examination the conversations reflect our mutual commitment to the tou. Yes?


So how about you restate your answer to the question this op asks and make the case for that position? It may be that comments and questions ensue, and you fill in the details for your case. It may be that you and I completely agree and have no further need for discussion. You can then field the comments and inquiries of those who disagree. Isn't that how DBs are supposed to work?

 

[Josheb]

You already specified you looking for a specific scripture to say a specific thing, knowing there isnt a scripture that is going to verbatimly say what you demand it to say, thats a debate tatic.

What I know and what you know may be two entirely different knows. I know scripture fairly well, but I do not know everything stated therein. Just yesterday I was corrected in another forum for a statement I erroneously made about David and Nabal. I acknowledged my mistake and thanked the poster for his correction. You were given the benefit of the doubt and asked a valid question. You've refused to answer the questions asked, gotten defensive, and tried to gaslight me. It does not work on me.

If there are no such verses, then my next set of inquiries will be to give you the opportunity to make the inferential case for what you posted. The problem is you've already poisoned the well against yourself (not me). You've already established your position(s) are based solely on inference and you also already established your defensive posture and your willingness to sabotage the thread with ad hominem. I would like to restore the discussion to one of goodwill, amity, and topical discourse. I am, therefore, asking you to do the same.


This op is about the identity of God's chosen people. It's not about the kingdom, covenants, all the many choosings God has made, or the posters. It's about the identity of God's chosen people. You have stated,

Apart from a temporary national election, those who were chosen in Christ before the foundation of world are Gods true chosen people Eph 1:4 and these are comprised of people out of all nations of the world.

[Temporal election of the nation of Israel is] an inference made from biblical studies, the physical nation of israel is no longer Gods covenant people, so it was temporary until Christ came and fulfilled prophecy

[The nation of Israel being God's covenant people] is an inference, a lot of biblical truth are inferences derived from other scriptures, if you always demand letter, you will never be enlightened. Now the nation of israel has lost its stewardship I derive that from scripture like Matt 21:43 - Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.



I know u would disagree, I dont care how much scripture someone shows you, you wont see it.

You already specified you looking for a specific scripture to say a specific thing, knowing there isnt a scripture that is going to verbatimly say what you demand it to say, thats a debate tatic. Scripture truth is mostly spiritually discerned and not verbatim. For instance a person can say, show me a scripture that says God is a Trinity, since the person demands the word Trinity to be shown, he can always deny the Trinity and say, he never denied scripture.

You already specified you looking for a specific scripture to say a specific thing, knowing there isnt a scripture that is going to verbatimly say what you demand it to say, thats a debate tatic. Scripture truth is mostly spiritually discerned and not verbatim. For instance a person can say, show me a scripture that says God is a Trinity, since the person demands the word Trinity to be shown, he can always deny the Trinity and say, he never denied scripture.

That is the totality of your conversation with me. I have asked valid questions only to receive gaslighting ad hominem in response. I have repeatedly tried to steer this exchange back to the topic of this op but the effort has not produced op-relevant fruit. The question is, "Who are God's Chosen people?" It might help to realize the question is not "Who were God's chosen people?" I would like answers to the questions I have asked because if there are no answers to those questions and each subsequent inquiry also has no answer then I am inclined to reject the answer to the op, not matter what that answer may be. I'm definitely going to reject it if the only answer is "Josh is an evil, despicable, scripture-denying, troll who smells bad." That is not an answer to the question asked in this op.


Who are God's chosen people according to the whole of God's word? Where might I find that stated in scripture and, if it's not explicitly stated in scripture then how was that position reached. What are the inferences and by what scriptures and by what rationale were those inferences obtained. No ad hominem wanted or needed.


Who are God's chosen people?

 

[brightfame52]

@Josheb

1 Peter 2:9-10
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

So I adjusted my understanding accordingly. According to God's word, the holy nation is NOT bloodline Israel, or the nation-state of Israel. According to scripture the holy nation is the nation of priests, and that nation of priests are those, according to Peter, who by the Spirit obey Jesus.

Its the Church, the Body of Christ, 1 Pet 2:9-10 is the Church which Christ is the Head, its the Spiritual Seed of Abraham that belongs to Christ Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[brightfame52]

What I know and what you know may be two entirely different knows. I know scripture fairly well, but I do not know everything stated therein. Just yesterday I was corrected in another forum for a statement I erroneously made about David and Nabal. I acknowledged my mistake and thanked the poster for his correction. You were given the benefit of the doubt and asked a valid question. You've refused to answer the questions asked, gotten defensive, and tried to gaslight me. It does not work on me.

If there are no such verses, then my next set of inquiries will be to give you the opportunity to make the inferential case for what you posted. The problem is you've already poisoned the well against yourself (not me). You've already established your position(s) are based solely on inference and you also already established your defensive posture and your willingness to sabotage the thread with ad hominem. I would like to restore the discussion to one of goodwill, amity, and topical discourse. I am, therefore, asking you to do the same.


This op is about the identity of God's chosen people. It's not about the kingdom, covenants, all the many choosings God has made, or the posters. It's about the identity of God's chosen people. You have stated,

That is the totality of your conversation with me. I have asked valid questions only to receive gaslighting ad hominem in response. I have repeatedly tried to steer this exchange back to the topic of this op but the effort has not produced op-relevant fruit. The question is, "Who are God's Chosen people?" It might help to realize the question is not "Who were God's chosen people?" I would like answers to the questions I have asked because if there are no answers to those questions and each subsequent inquiry also has no answer then I am inclined to reject the answer to the op, not matter what that answer may be. I'm definitely going to reject it if the only answer is "Josh is an evil, despicable, scripture-denying, troll who smells bad." That is not an answer to the question asked in this op.


Who are God's chosen people according to the whole of God's word? Where might I find that stated in scripture and, if it's not explicitly stated in scripture then how was that position reached. What are the inferences and by what scriptures and by what rationale were those inferences obtained. No ad hominem wanted or needed.


Who are God's chosen people?

You already specified you looking for a specific scripture to say a specific thing, knowing there isnt a scripture that is going to verbatimly say what you demand it to say, thats a debate tatic.

 

[brightfame52]

@Josheb

Who are God's chosen people?

As it pertains to Salvation,its all who were chosen n Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

Now who do you say ? Who are Gods chosen people ?

 

[Josheb]

I would offer..

Like many words "Israel" and the word "Jew" both have two kinds of understandings. The spiritual unseen eternal and the literal historical temporal. They must be mixed or no gospel rest (Heb 4:2)

The name Jacob (deceiver) was changed to represent the born-again bride of Christ, Israel. The born-again seed beginning with Abel passed on to Enos another second born to represent the born again seed Christ. It was then when mankind born again began to call on Abba Father

Genesis 4:25-26;And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew. and to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then (not before) began men to call upon the name of the Lord.
Christ our Holy Father signified as Abraham the spiritual Father of every nation. Promised a inward Jew (born again) having to do with the new heavenly city prepared for his bride the church.

In Isaiah 62:1-5 the lord prophesied the new creature that he promised to name (Christian) in Acts A more befitting name to name the bride of all the nations of the world . Literally meaning "residents of the heavenly eternal City Christ" . Named after her founder and husband Christ

Some of the outward Jews signified after Jacob (deceiver) tried to use a DNA card to enter Christin fellowship. They were shown the door out

Romans 2:28-29For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:;But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

I must have missed it (even though I read that post thrice). Would you please tell me where the words "chosen people" are found in that post? Thanks

 

[Josheb]

@Josheb

As it pertains to Salvation,its all who were chosen n Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

All of the questions I asked earlier remain valid and unanswered. Your answer implies there are different chosen people and if that is the case then I would like to read the scriptures stating that position, and if there are no such scriptures and that position is entirely inferential then I would like to read the scripture read to imply that position and the rationale by which those inferences were obtained.

Now who do you say ? Who are Gods chosen people ?

Read the op! I answered the op's inquiry in the op. I have subsequently supported that position with at least six other posts, each of which contain scripture read exactly as written and/or explaining any inferences made on my part.

 

[brightfame52]

@Josheb

Read the op! I answered the op's inquiry in the op.

They the same people. Eph 1:4 and 1 Pet 2:9-10

Those chosen in Christ are Gods purchased possession Eph 1:14

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Purchase possession is the same greek word Peter used in 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Its the word peripoiēsis:

1. a preserving, a preservation
2. possession, one's own property

 

[Josheb]

@Josheb



They the same people. Eph 1:4 and 1 Pet 2:9-10

Those chosen in Christ are Gods purchased possession Eph 1:14

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Purchase possession is the same greek word Peter used in 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

Its the word peripoiēsis:

1. a preserving, a preservation
2. possession, one's own property

Yes, we can rationally infer both groups (the people being referred to in Eph. 1:14 and 1 Pet. 2:9) are the same people since both have been purchased by God with the blood of Christ (1 Cor. 6:20 and 1 Pet. 1:18-19). How about the nation Israel temporarily being God's chosen people? How was that position reached?

 

[Eleanor]

Who are God's chosen People?

According to the New Testament,

1 Peter 2:4-10
As you come to him, a living stone rejected by men but in the sight of God chosen and precious, you yourselves like living stones are being built up as a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For it stands in Scripture: “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone chosen and precious, and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.” So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

The pronouns in this passage refer to

1 Peter 1:1-2
Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.


Peter has, therefore identified those who are God's chosen people as those chosen according to the foreknowledge of God, those who obey Jesus Christ by means of the sanctifying work of the Spirit; those sprinkled with Christ's blood. Peter's epistle is filled with Old Testament references, implying those references are applicable to those chosen by God to obey Jesus. If that is not the case the Pater is taking liberties with Tanakh, possibly to the point of abusing those texts and we need no take anything Peter has written to be divinely inspired. If, however, Peter was inspired by the Holy Spirit to reveal the meaning of the OT texts pertaining to the identity of God's "chosen people" then this passage explains all the Old Testament mentions of God's chosen people.

The newer revelation explains the older revelation(s).

Peter has said "a" chosen race, not "the" chosen race. This could, logically speaking, mean God has more than one chosen race or people but since there is no place in scripture explicitly stating God has two or more chosen peoples, that interpretation would 1) be entirely inferential and 2) not founded on something scripture explicitly teaches.

There is, of course, a theology within Christianity that teaches the exact opposite. I won't name it at this time because I don't want to disrupt this commentary. That theology holds God has two completely different peoples with two completely different purposes. That theology stands in open opposition to all the other theologies known throughout historical and orthodox Christianity since its inception. That theology also asserts a discontinuity of scripture not shared by the rest of Christendom.​

Lastly, there are over 100 verses in the Bible that contain the word "chosen" but only eight of them specifically mention God's chosen people, or people chosen by God. Anyone with an eBible that has a search function should be able to track down those eight verses, examine them, and stick to what they state for the sake of this thread. Most of those verses are in the Old Testament. I mention this because it is clear and undeniable fact God first broached the matter of a "chosen people" in Tanakh. However, because most of us a Christians, not Jews, the newer revelation defines and explains the older revelation and defines who are God's chosen people.

God's chosen (for salvation) people are those in the one olive tree (Ro 11:17-23).

 

[Josheb]

As it pertains to Salvation, its all who were chosen n Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God's chosen (for salvation) people are those in the one olive tree (Ro 11:17-23).

To what do you think people are referring when they ask, "Who are God's chosen people?" Is there some other chosenness in mind beside salvation?

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, we can rationally infer both groups (the people being referred to in Eph. 1:14 and 1 Pet. 2:9) are the same people since both have been purchased by God with the blood of Christ (1 Cor. 6:20 and 1 Pet. 1:18-19). How about the nation Israel temporarily being God's chosen people? How was that position reached?

Okay and thats the Church the Body of Christ, comprised of all ethnic groups. So the holy nation of 1 Pet 2:9 is the Church the body of Christ.

 

[makesends]

I recently had a lengthy discussion with a Jehovah's witness in another forum in which I expounded upon the premise of "spiritual" Israel (mostly based on the fact scripture never uses that phrase and it's a false dichotomy to make distinction between the physical and spiritual where scripture does not do so. If you like, I can copy some of those posts here.

It is true Israel was a "particular" nation. I used to think Israel was a "holy" nation, but then I searched the scripture and discovered that's not actually what scripture states . Thinking Israel was the holy nation I then thought it's true God chose the nation of Israel. That would be self-evident in Israel being called a "holy" nation. Yes? The word "holy" means "separate" or "separated," and in a religious context it carries with it the connotation of being separated for sacred purpose. Israel was a nation that had been chosen by God and separated from the rest of the world's nations. I thought several verses spoke to this explicitly. Then I search the Bible for the phrase "holy nation and there are only two such texts in the Bible that explicitly use that phrase.

Exodus 19:4-6
You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings, and brought you to Myself. Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the earth is Mine; and you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words that you shall speak to the sons of Israel."

1 Peter 2:9-10
But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light. Once you were not a people, but now you are God’s people; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.

So I adjusted my understanding accordingly. According to God's word, the holy nation is NOT bloodline Israel, or the nation-state of Israel. According to scripture the holy nation is the nation of priests, and that nation of priests are those, according to Peter, who by the Spirit obey Jesus.

God has chosen many things in scripture. He has many "particular" nations. Each particular nation serves God's purpose and that purpose is usually temporary. God chose the particular nation of Egypt to enslave the sons of Israel for 400 years. God chose the particular nation of Babylon as a tool of God's judgment, conquering the nation and sending its people into exile. God did the same with Assyria (both judging the judges of Babylon and judging Israel). Using Joel and Isaiah, Paul explained why the sons of Israel (not bloodline/Lawful/national Israel) was purposed for a time.

Romans 9:3, 25-28
For I could wish that I myself were accursed, separated from Christ for the sake of my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh, who are Israelites, to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever................. As indeed he says in Hosea, “Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’ and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’” “And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’” And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved, for the Lord will carry out his sentence upon the earth fully and without delay.”

They were the means by which the gospel, the Law, and the Messiah would come, and the covenant(s) fulfilled. Not once do any of these texts - Old or New - call the nation of Israel God's chosen people.

This op is about the identity of God's chosen people.

Great. Then I trust the necessity of discernment and proper use of those terms is understood.

Do you think @brightfame52 is able to articulate his references without our speculations? I do.

Never said any such thing.

And yet...

Probably best to let him explain his own posts (and if unable to do so then to re-examine that position).


I am not the subject of this thread. Neither is @brightfame52. The subject of this op is not about the kingdom or who is "particular," or any of the other tangents introduced into the thread. I am happy to read and consider any post about the identity of God's chosen people, but the thread is increasingly drifting away from that topic. I note of the fact this topic has caused some to lose their decorum. That is very common when feel defensive and there's no need for that here. Where people make their case in confidence, safety and self-examination the conversations reflect our mutual commitment to the tou. Yes?


So how about you restate your answer to the question this op asks and make the case for that position? It may be that comments and questions ensue, and you fill in the details for your case. It may be that you and I completely agree and have no further need for discussion. You can then field the comments and inquiries of those who disagree. Isn't that how DBs are supposed to work?

I will take your suggestions to heart.

Not that you said I was, but I'm definitely not a DB. I was taught that in my youth, and even then thought some of it was logically absurd, knowing what Scriptures I did and how they used them. I've never been able to honestly use their schedules to arrange what I read in Scripture, and I still don't have a set eschatology.

 

[Josheb]

Okay and thats the Church the Body of Christ, comprised of all ethnic groups. So the holy nation of 1 Pet 2:9 is the Church the body of Christ.

Who are God's chosen people? Yes, the holy nation of 1 Pet. 2:9 is the Church (the ecclesia) the body of Christ, but this op is about the identity of God's chosen people.

How about the nation Israel temporarily being God's chosen people? How was that position reached?

Apart from a temporary national election.....

What has temporary national election got to do with the identity of God's chosen people?

 

[Josheb]

I will take your suggestions to heart.

Not that you said I was, but I'm definitely not a DB.

DB = Discussion Board.

Isn't that how Discussion Boards are supposed to work?

I was taught that in my youth, and even then thought some of it was logically absurd, knowing what Scriptures I did and how they used them. I've never been able to honestly use their schedules to arrange what I read in Scripture, and I still don't have a set eschatology.

LOL! Big hug, bro.

 

[makesends]

DB = Discussion Board.

Isn't that how Discussion Boards are supposed to work?

My bad again, lol.

LOL! Big hug, bro.

 

[brightfame52]

Who are God's chosen people? Yes, the holy nation of 1 Pet. 2:9 is the Church (the ecclesia) the body of Christ, but this op is about the identity of God's chosen people.

How about the nation Israel temporarily being God's chosen people? How was that position reached?

What has temporary national election got to do with the identity of God's chosen people?

I already told you that, you rejected it, so be it.