Where did Enoch and Elijah go then?

[ReverendRV]

Well, I'll give you credit. You do have an awfully busy mind. But your conclusions are way too easily arrived at for me. You use application of your interpretation as though it was doctrine, from which you find your interpretation all over again to verify your application. Or something. I haven't figured it out yet. So sure of your notions. Amazing.

But, I gotta be careful here, because I'm the one going to be measured by my own standard, so...

The answer is Fundamentalism and Orthodoxy...

If something sounds off, a Fundamental is being stretched. Sure, we all have little extras that are okay; and Orthodoxy's boat shouldn't be rocked by them...

Be a Fundamentalist. It helps SO much. When somone is Pretexting, Pretexts become their private fundamental...

 

[makesends]

The answer is Fundamentalism and Orthodoxy...

If something sounds off, a Fundamental is being stretched. Sure, we all have little extras that are okay; and Orthodoxy's boat shouldn't be rocked by them...

Be a Fundamentalist. It helps SO much. When somone is Pretexting, Pretexts become their private fundamental...

"You've got a point. I just don't like the way you comb your hair around it".

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Why could they not be in Heaven,

Simple. The were laden with UNCLEANSED SIN just like every other human on earth. Jesus wasn't Sacrificed yet, there was no "PERFECT SIN OFFERING" (Isa 53) and SIN could only be temporarily hidden by Livestock blood (Heb 10:4). NOBODY entered Heaven until Jesus led 'em there (Eph 4:8) AFTER the sacrifice was made.

 

[David1701]

Again, "Abraham's bosom" was for the righteous *dead* below the earth. Enoch and Elijah were taken *up* alive.

Abraham's bosom was generally for the righteous, whose bodies had expired; but, that does not preclude a couple of exceptions, since that's where the spirits of the righteous went, on leaving this Earth. Enoch and Elijah would have been the only ones with physical bodies, but there's nothing to indicate that that's a problem.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Abraham's bosom was generally for the righteous, whose bodies had expired; but, that does not preclude a couple of exceptions, since that's where the spirits of the righteous went, on leaving this Earth. Enoch and Elijah would have been the only ones with physical bodies, but there's nothing to indicate that that's a problem.

Ok. /shrug

 

[3 Resurrections]

I'll leave you guys with a fun one for the day. I'm currently involved in an apologetics "debate" with someone who believes that no-one when to Heaven prior too Jesus's assentation. He flat out denies the testimony of the Bible on Enoch and Elijah.

Anyone heard of this one before and have any idea what he is getting on about? The current argument from this friend is that Enoch and Elijah were taken up into the sky. Period.

The answer to your question is in the LXX account of Elijah's transport into the (atmospheric) heaven - not into God's presence. This is found in IV Kings 2:1 & 11 in the LXX.

"And it came to pass, when the Lord was going to take Eliu with a whirlwind AS IT WERE into heaven..."

"And it came to pass as they were going, they went on talking; and, behold, a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and it separated between them both; and Eliu was taken up in a whirlwind AS IT WERE into heaven."

So, to all appearances to Elisha standing below, Elijah was only taken up by the whirlwind into the sky beyond his immediate view. Elijah was then transported elsewhere (like evangelist Philip in the NT) to another location on the earth. We know for certain that Elijah was still present on earth and not taken into God's presence at the time, because some ten years or so later, Elijah penned a letter to King Jehoram, listing the king's past sins, and foretelling the manner of the king's death in 2 Chronicles 2:12. "And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of David thy father..." Elijah died as all other men have died and had to wait for his transport into God's presence in heaven with the rest of the saints.

Christ was the very first to ascend into heaven in a glorified human body. The John 3:13 verse is point blank about "no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Enoch also could not possibly have been taken into heaven to God's presence before Christ had first become our high priest and opened up the way as the "First-begotten from the dead" for all His resurrected siblings to follow later on. Enoch's biography of his translation simply says that "God took him", and it doesn't say where. But we know that he could not possibly have been taken into the heaven of God's presence, because that would have contradicted the John 3:13 statement of "no man" having ascended to heaven by that point.

I have a proposal of what happened to Enoch and when, but it falls into another subject's discussion. We also have a statement in Revelation 15:8 informing us of exactly when the temple in heaven was first opened up for any resurrected members of mankind other than Christ to enter it.

 

[Rella]

The answer to your question is in the LXX account of Elijah's transport into the (atmospheric) heaven - not into God's presence. This is found in IV Kings 2:1 & 11 in the LXX.

"And it came to pass, when the Lord was going to take Eliu with a whirlwind AS IT WERE into heaven..."

"And it came to pass as they were going, they went on talking; and, behold, a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and it separated between them both; and Eliu was taken up in a whirlwind AS IT WERE into heaven."

So, to all appearances to Elisha standing below, Elijah was only taken up by the whirlwind into the sky beyond his immediate view. Elijah was then transported elsewhere (like evangelist Philip in the NT) to another location on the earth. We know for certain that Elijah was still present on earth and not taken into God's presence at the time, because some ten years or so later, Elijah penned a letter to King Jehoram, listing the king's past sins, and foretelling the manner of the king's death in 2 Chronicles 2:12. "And there came a writing to him from Elijah the prophet, saying, Thus saith the Lord God of David thy father..." Elijah died as all other men have died and had to wait for his transport into God's presence in heaven with the rest of the saints.

Christ was the very first to ascend into heaven in a glorified human body. The John 3:13 verse is point blank about "no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven."

Enoch also could not possibly have been taken into heaven to God's presence before Christ had first become our high priest and opened up the way as the "First-begotten from the dead" for all His resurrected siblings to follow later on. Enoch's biography of his translation simply says that "God took him", and it doesn't say where. But we know that he could not possibly have been taken into the heaven of God's presence, because that would have contradicted the John 3:13 statement of "no man" having ascended to heaven by that point.

I have a proposal of what happened to Enoch and when, but it falls into another subject's discussion. We also have a statement in Revelation 15:8 informing us of exactly when the temple in heaven was first opened up for any resurrected members of mankind other than Christ to enter it.

Thank you 3 R.

You said this far mroe then concisely then I wouod have and I definitely concur. Neither went into heavfven.

I, for one would like to hear what you have to say on what happened to Enoch, so if it is not appropriate for here, hope you find a home gfor it.