Where did Enoch and Elijah go then?

[Deleted member 5]

I'll leave you guys with a fun one for the day. I'm currently involved in an apologetics "debate" with someone who believes that no-one when to Heaven prior too Jesus's assentation. He flat out denies the testimony of the Bible on Enoch and Elijah.

Anyone heard of this one before and have any idea what he is getting on about? The current argument from this friend is that Enoch and Elijah were taken up into the sky. Period.

My response was:

What about the two-compartment theory? Abraham's bosom?

 

[makesends]

Seeing how the two witnesses for the first half of the great tribulation will die, resurrected after 3 days, and be called up to Heaven, & I believe them to be Enoch & Elijah, I do not believe they are in Heaven yet but the upper atmosphere travelling through time with mayhap pit stops along the way like Elijah did with Moses & Jesus at one time on earth. They may find themselves together at the beginning of the great tribulation.

But since we prophesy in part and know in part, we will know all things when we see Him face to face in Heaven.

Why could they not be in Heaven, AND do the things you think they do? Your assessment seems to depend on time passage, still.

Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. It can even be argued that God spoke us, as the finished product (Bride, Body, Dwelling place), into existence when he created us. (It is, after all, WE who assume that we are complete as this unfinished product we experience). I have no problem, upon considering Heaven as being outside of time, (no, I didn't say timeless), to think Elijah could have been taken to actual final Heaven, and still show up temporally at the Mount of Transfiguration, and later too, as one of the two witnesses.

 

[ChristB4us]

Again, "Abraham's bosom" was for the righteous *dead* below the earth. Enoch and Elijah were taken *up* alive.

Right but she said this;

Marilyn C said:
They were taken to Abraham`s bosom, and when Christ ascended He took them to the General Assembly. (Heb. 12: 21 the just men)

I agree with you but she said they went the other way when at that time before Christ, Abraham's bosom was under the earth rather than up in Heaven.

And so that is where we defer as to which of the three heavens that Enoch & Elijah were taken to. Scripture says no one has ascended to God's Heaven which is the Third Heaven and with flesh & blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and so .... that leaves the other two.

 

[ChristB4us]

Just to be clear I think they are exactly where the Bible says they are. In Heaven with God.

Did it? Or did it just say heaven?

Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Was it done like Philip being taken from one place to another by the Spirit of the Lord, but with Enoch to a different time & different place?

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

And...

2 King 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. 13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;

Kind of remind me of the Wizard of Oz for how Dorothy was taken by a tornado to another place, still in the physical world rather than the spiritual realm.

Since there will be two witnesses for the first half of the great tribulation, I am thinking they are in transit if not individually but arriving together in Jerusalem for that first half of the great tribulation.

I realize that we all prophesy in part & know in part but the Lord can help us to apply scripture rightly to help us eliminate what we think happened to know what had happened.

 

[ChristB4us]

Why could they not be in Heaven, AND do the things you think they do? Your assessment seems to depend on time passage, still.

Christ was slain from the foundation of the world. It can even be argued that God spoke us, as the finished product (Bride, Body, Dwelling place), into existence when he created us. (It is, after all, WE who assume that we are complete as this unfinished product we experience). I have no problem, upon considering Heaven as being outside of time, (no, I didn't say timeless), to think Elijah could have been taken to actual final Heaven, and still show up temporally at the Mount of Transfiguration, and later too, as one of the two witnesses.

I understand your point of view but consider this; if that be true then why is Abraham's bosom aka Paradise was located beneath the earth at the time Jesus was on earth if we were to apply Christ slain from the foundation of the world in that way? Granted His one time sacrifice for sins was applied to the saints way back to the beginning, but He could not bring them into Heaven yet until He had died, risen, & ascended.

 

[ReverendRV]

Did it? Or did it just say heaven?

Genesis 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him.

Was it done like Philip being taken from one place to another by the Spirit of the Lord, but with Enoch to a different time & different place?

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

And...

2 King 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. 13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;

Kind of remind me of the Wizard of Oz for how Dorothy was taken by a tornado to another place, still in the physical world rather than the spiritual realm.

Since there will be two witnesses for the first half of the great tribulation, I am thinking they are in transit if not individually but arriving together in Jerusalem for that first half of the great tribulation.

I realize that we all prophesy in part & know in part but the Lord can help us to apply scripture rightly to help us eliminate what we think happened to know what had happened.

I think it's enough to believe that Enoch and Elijah went to the Third Heaven; I agree with @CrazyCalvinistUncle . We have a tendency for Linear Thinking. Since Old Covenant Saints went to Paradise to wait for Heaven, we can't contemplate how timeless Heaven is...

I'll Post a Gospel Tract that explains how people can be in Heaven with God; before they get there...

 

[makesends]

I understand your point of view but consider this; if that be true then why is Abraham's bosom aka Paradise was located beneath the earth at the time Jesus was on earth if we were to apply Christ slain from the foundation of the world in that way? Granted His one time sacrifice for sins was applied to the saints way back to the beginning, but He could not bring them into Heaven yet until He had died, risen, & ascended.

If time does not apply, there is no "until" except causally. I'm not saying my point is correct. I'm saying we don't know, but for a long time now *snerk, snerk*, I have seen no better way to look at it than that time sequence is irrelevant.

The same principle I think can be seen in the Reformed or Calvinist doctrine of Regeneration. It is a work done by God alone upon his elect, transforming their mind and will (their "heart"). Yet the Arminians will quote long lines of text demonstrating what is apparently (to them) a time sequence where the change of heart is a result of salvific faith and repentence, and not a cause of it. Whether they are right or not about the time sequence, as far as cause is concerned, it is still undeniable that a dead heart must be made alive before it can do anything. Thus, regeneration (the change of the mind and will and heart from death to life) can be unrelated to time sequence.

 

[ReverendRV]

I think it's enough to believe that Enoch and Elijah went to the Third Heaven; I agree with @CrazyCalvinistUncle . We have a tendency for Linear Thinking. Since Old Covenant Saints went to Paradise to wait for Heaven, we can't contemplate how timeless Heaven is...

I'll Post a Gospel Tract that explains how people can be in Heaven with God; before they get there...

24 Elders ~ by ReverendRV * January 3

Revelation 5:5 BLB; And one of the elders says to me, "Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the root of David, has overcome to open the scroll and its seven seals."

In the book of Revelation, the Apostle John saw Heaven with his own eyes; and beheld many Wonders. He saw Jesus and many Angels, and saw Twenty Four Elders; and a crowd of people so numerous that they could not be counted. John also saw a Scroll in Heaven which no one was worthy to open; and this caused him to weep. But I want to focus on the Elder who spoke to John and told him not to weep, because the Lion of the Tribe of Judah has prevailed in Life and can open the Scroll. You ask, “Why is this Elder such a great Wonder?” ~ The Church teaches the Twenty Four Elders consist of representatives from the Twelve Tribes of Israel, and the Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ. This means that there was a fifty percent chance that John knew this Elder, because John was one of the Twelve Apostles. Could you imagine John’s awe if the Elder who spoke to him was he himself; the Glorified Saint John?? It’s hard to imagine that we are already in Eternity. ~ Have you ever Lied, Stolen, or committed Adultery? Then you’re already Condemned; you need to be Pardoned by God before your destination is declared by the Judge of the world. When you are Condemned already, pleading ‘Nolo’ results in a Guilty Verdict…

If you long to be with a dead Loved One but don’t know how to go to him, first go to Jesus Christ. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life; and no one goes to Heaven without being seated by this Royal Usher. You cannot take your Sins to Heaven so you will have to leave them behind. The way you do this is by God’s Grace through Faith in the risen Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior; do this and you will be Pardoned! Now there will never be a time that you’ll be without your Saved Loved Ones; your Welcome Home party awaits your Triumphal Entry. Jesus will wipe away every tear from our eyes, and Death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore; for in one sense the former things have passed away; Praise God!

Romans 8:30 says, ‘Moreover whom He Predestined, these He also Called; whom He Called, these He also Justified; and whom He Justified, these He also Glorified.’ In our perspective we are not in Heaven, but in Gods perspective we are already Glorified. ~ Have you lost a Loved One who was a Christian? Like John, it may boggle our Mind to think we’re already Glorified in the Heavenly realm. Time doesn’t exist in Eternity and it may feel like only a few minutes have passed by for your Loved One, upon his entry into Heaven, before you’re with him; even after you spend a long life here. Or your Loved One may be surprised to see you, when he makes his Triumphal Entry, and you’re there to hear Jesus cry out, ‘Finally; the One whom I have Loved is here!’ Oh, how the nuances of Eternity can test the limits of our Minds; but if it can be possible the Apostle John met himself in Heaven, it’s possible you’re Glorified with him; did John see you?

2nd Corinthians 2:14 KJV; Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

What about the two-compartment theory? Abraham's bosom?

Already answered a few times I think. Abraham's bosom and Gehenna ( under the earth ) were for the dead. Enoch and Elijah were taken up alive. The scripture for Elijah directly states "heaven".

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

I understand your point of view but consider this; if that be true then why is Abraham's bosom aka Paradise was located beneath the earth at the time Jesus was on earth if we were to apply Christ slain from the foundation of the world in that way?

Sounds like a good topic for another thread.

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Scripture says no one has ascended to God's Heaven which is the Third Heaven and with flesh & blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and so .... that leaves the other two.

I would say this is a misunderstanding of what Scripture says. As would quite a few commentaries on John 3:13.

 

[ChristB4us]

I think it's enough to believe that Enoch and Elijah went to the Third Heaven; I agree with @CrazyCalvinistUncle . We have a tendency for Linear Thinking. Since Old Covenant Saints went to Paradise to wait for Heaven, we can't contemplate how timeless Heaven is...

I'll Post a Gospel Tract that explains how people can be in Heaven with God; before they get there...

@makesends & @CrazyCalvinistUncle

Well, pray about it because I see this scripture saying "no" even though others have resorted to commenaries about it as if not really saying what He said.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Then there is this;

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

They still need Christ to bring them there and He has not come yet for Him to do that.

Since more than one member seems to think that can apply to all saints in the past, then why was Abraham's bosom located beneath the earth since the fall of man to the time of Christ until He had ascended?

Can Enoch & Elijah come to God without the blood of Christ as corruptible flesh still? I think not.

 

[ReverendRV]

@makesends & @CrazyCalvinistUncle

Well, pray about it because I see this scripture saying "no" even though others have resorted to commenaries about it as if not really saying what He said.

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Then there is this;

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

They still need Christ to bring them there and He has not come yet for Him to do that.

Since more than one member seems to think that can apply to all saints in the past, then why was Abraham's bosom located beneath the earth since the fall of man to the time of Christ until He had ascended?

Can Enoch & Elijah come to God without the blood of Christ as corruptible flesh still? I think not.

I would say the Heaven that Saint John saw, was a Flesh and Bone Heaven, that had Glorified Saints residing in it; people with Flesh and Bone Bodies...

To cut to the Chase, CARM Forums spent years arguing about Heavenly Bodies. They are Flesh and Bone Bodies, not Flesh and Blood Bodies. Elijah and Enoch would have been Translated, then entered the Third Heaven...

Not boasting, but you should ask us questions. We have answered them aleady; years ago...

 

[ChristB4us]

I would say the Heaven that Saint John saw, was a Flesh and Bone Heaven, that had Glorified Saints residing in it; people with Flesh and Bone Bodies...

Being how John was seeing as is in Heaven and also visions of future event, probably should reconsider that & discern with Him.

Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Since this is about an event that has not happened yet with the breaking of the seals in what John is seeing here...are souls under the altar. I do not see them having any resurrected bodies yet.

But below, one could see them as resurrected saints coming out of the great tribulation as in a future vision. They would have flesh and blood bodies; vessels unto dishonor as vessels of wood & earth but the power of the second death will not be over them.

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Below I see the firstfruits of the resurrection as inhabiters of Heaven as vessels unto honor in His House, vessels of gold & silver that we shall be as the Son of God is when the Bridegroom has received us to our mansions in our Father's House; thus living in the City of God in Heaven.

So the question of flesh & bone as that firstfruit of the resurrction? 1 John 3:1-3 testify that we would not know until then.

1 John 3:1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Luke 20:35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Revelation 12:12Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

To cut to the Chase, CARM Forums spent years arguing about Heavenly Bodies. They are Flesh and Bone Bodies, not Flesh and Blood Bodies. Elijah and Enoch would have been Translated, then entered the Third Heaven...

I take it CARM had argued for the flesh & blood bodies? They may be half right f they are referring to scriptures about those coming out of the great tribulation.

Not boasting, but you should ask us questions. We have answered them aleady; years ago...

What scriptures in Revelation are you applying towards the bodies as flesh and bone bodies?

 

[ReverendRV]

I take it CARM had argued for the flesh & blood bodies? They may be half right f they are referring to scriptures about those coming out of the great tribulation.

What scriptures in Revelation are you applying towards the bodies as flesh and bone bodies?

This is one of the dangers of Solo Scriptura. Everyone can find a Pretext; IE Flesh and Blood cannot enter Heaven. Without All Scripture, people will assume that the Glorified body is no longer Flesh. This would eliminate Jesus too, because he said his Glorified Body is Flesh and Bone. The distinction is drawn. Our Bodies will be like his Flesh and Bone Body; we will be Kosher too. Enoch and Elijah were Translated and taken to Heaven; but if you want to believe they were taken to Abraham's Bossom; that's fine...

All Scripture is Good for the Doctrine of the Glorified Body; Pretexting is terrible for All Doctrines...


Solo Scriptura, is Pretexting...

 

[Deleted member 5]

Already answered a few times I think. Abraham's bosom and Gehenna ( under the earth ) were for the dead. Enoch and Elijah were taken up alive. The scripture for Elijah directly states "heaven".

I think it would mean by heaven that it is "in the heavens" which would include Abraham's bosom. I don't believe it has to be technically the heaven that we think of in or NT mindset.

Christ was also taken up alive and is in heaven. I don't see an issue.

 

[ChristB4us]

This is one of the dangers of Solo Scriptura. Everyone can find a Pretext; Flesh and Blood cannot enter Heaven. This would eliminate Jesus too, except he said his Glorified Body is Flesh and Bone. The distinction is drawn. Our Bodies will be like his Flesh and Bone Body; we will be Kosher too. Enoch and Elijah were Translated and taken to Heaven; but if you want to believe they were taken to Abraham's Bossom; that's fine...

I do not believe they were taken to Abraham's bosom.

I believe only Christ can bring us to Heaven and so if all those in that past died in hope, how come they are not also with Enoch & Elijah?

Hebrews 11:7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. 8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. 11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

That City is still being built to receive her inhabitants per that firstfruits of the resurrection at the pre great tribulation rapture event.

All Scripture is Good for the Doctrine of the Glorified Body; Pretexting is terrible for All Doctrines...

Then I guess I need to ask you who the two witnesses are for the first half of the great tribulation? Enoch & Elijah? Moses & Elijah? Somebody else? Because if you believe they will be Enoch & Elijah as I do, then they cannot be translated when they will die, be resurrected after 3 days and ascended to Heaven then halfway through the great tribulation.

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

If Enoch & Elijah were translated, then they cannot be the two witnesses for the first half of the great tribulation and yet it has been prophesied that Elijah was to come.

 

[ChristB4us]

I think it would mean by heaven that it is "in the heavens" which would include Abraham's bosom. I don't believe it has to be technically the heaven that we think of in or NT mindset.

Christ was also taken up alive and is in heaven. I don't see an issue.

All spirits of the hopeful saints were in Abraham's bosom until Christ's resurrection & ascension to Heaven.

Evidence in scriptures that the spirits of the O.T. saints were beneath the earth.

1 Samuel 28th Chapter

Key verses are below;

1 Samuel 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel. 12 And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. 15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

Some say that it was not really Samuel but it was because he had prophesied to Saul that he and his sons would die in battle and it did happen.

Plus, the Bible would not say it was Samuel that had spoken if it really wasn't him.

 

[ReverendRV]

If Enoch & Elijah were translated, then they cannot be the two witnesses for the first half of the great tribulation and yet it has been prophesied that Elijah was to come.

Sure they can; just as the Flesh and Bone Body of Jesus left Heaven to encounter Saul of Tarsus...

I would certainly reject that Elijah and Enoch are floating on Cloud 9 like Cherubs; waiting for Revelation 11...

I think this is what you are Suggesting...

 

[ChristB4us]

Sure they can; just as the Flesh and Bone Body of Jesus left Heaven to encounter Saul of Tarsus...

I would certainly reject that Elijah and Enoch are floating on Cloud 9 like Cherubs; waiting for Revelation 11...

I think this is what you are Suggesting...

If they were translated to be as Jesus is now, how can they die again in the middle of the great tribulation?