What will we take to heaven....?

[Josheb]

On Topic
I am asserting that even though a person may or may not take his body, his memory or any thing of this world, the person does retain himself, his Soul, his individual identity, his essential self even without a body or a brain to store it in

Brainless humans in heaven?

 

[Josheb]

Reminds me of a bro-in-law of mine who did drugs in college. He says one time he and a friend were on their way to a concert with two girls. He was sitting in the back seat of a Volkswagon bug, talking to one of them, when all the sudden he was sitting on that tiny ledge under the back window, WATCHING HIMSELF talking to the girl. It scared him so bad that he quit doing drugs.

I spent time dealing with drug overdoses and the near death experiences brought about by those substances.
There is a thin line between dose and overdose.
It is something to consider when a person is having a normal drug induced hallucination or very near to death from overdose.
One "drug" that will give an out of body experience, which drug I shall not name, is said to induce those "out of body" experiences because the drugs action is to kill brain cells. The "out of body" is the brain dying.
However, those experiences, of which I listened to many such drug induced recounters, do not include another being or essence who is the source of indescribable love.
Most of the drug induced hallucinations are entirely of this world, just distortions or hallucinations.

Still not saying my friends experience was more than or less than that
I understand your point because I know the "near death experience" are almost always "near death" and not after complete brain death itself.

How can anything reported be considered veracious if the reporter was high?

 

[Josheb]

I'm 62 (sorry for the late response, I'm not in here a lot)

Have you read my earlier posts? The reason why I asked a few posters their age is because us old people have already gained, lost, and retained many things. That experience is a viable basis for answering the question asked by this op. Are you getting this @Hobie? There's a stuff we don't take with us from youth into old age. Conversely, there is plenty of stuff in Christ we take with us into the resurrection.

Our name would be one of them .

Malachi 3:16 ESV
Then those who feared the Lord spoke with one another. The Lord paid attention and heard them, and a book of remembrance was written before him of those who feared the Lord and esteemed his name.

Luke 10:20 ESV
Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.

Philippians 4:3 ESV
Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names are in the book of life.


We have a name. God knows us by name, and we will never not have a name.

 

[QVQ]

Brainless humans in heaven?

The person who died and was resuscitated, stated he "just was," simply "being," in a "white light" that was indescribable love.
He did not have a physical body so he could not act, he could not feel or think. It was just awareness of himself and the light.
There was nothing happening to make a memory, no time.
Just awareness of the "light" that radiated love and peace.
That "awareness" and his sense of being himself in the presence of another...would be the soul, resting until the resurrection.
At least it fits my understanding of death and what happens afterward

 

[Carbon]

Do you think we will retain our memories of this life? @Hobie? @David Lamb?

I think we will. We all have our own identities, but they will not be so important.

 

[Carbon]

Another thought as to not having remembrance is Revelation 21:4 that the former thing have pasted away and we will not have sorrow, crying, or pain.
My parents probably didn't go to heaven and unless they are saved in the future I don't think my wife, sisters, or best friends will be there with me either. I also have nothing but regret for the vast majority of my life and how I conducted myself even while understanding God and knowing better. I think a HUGE portion of my memory, if not all, will need to be taken if I am to not have sorrow in heaven.
I'm just speculating though and willing just to wait and see.

I think once we are with Christ and glorified, we probably will not be bothered by the sorrow and pain of some we knew who may not be there. But instead, we will probably be in agreement with their judgement.

 

[Carbon]

... and Isaiah 65:17 “Behold, I am creating new heavens and a new earth; And the former things [of life] will not be remembered or come to mind.

I'm not so sure we are to understand that as literal. I think it means in comparison, as the new that God will create will be so superior.

 

[Carbon]

Do you think that verse was spoken and written with a certain degree of hyperbole?

I think it was.

 

[fastfredy0]

Note I did not claim Isaiah 65:17 was hyperbole, I simply asked if @fastfredy0 considered it to have been said with a degree of hyperbole.

My default is to take things literally unless a parable or eschatology. I read Isaiah 65:17 literally but you bring up an interesting view point on the verse and your literary skills are superior to mine IMO. The idea that God is creating a new heaven and earth gradually had not occurred to me before. That's worth considering.

 

[fastfredy0]

I'm not so sure we are to understand that as literal. I think it means in comparison, as the new that God will create will be so superior.

Yeah, that's an interesting point. I just looked up a commentary by Gill who seems to agree with you. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth,.... This prophecy began to have its accomplishment in the first times of the Gospel, when through the preaching of it there was a new face of things appeared in Judea, and in the Gentile world,

hmmmm, hope you're right ... I want to see me dad again someday. Thanks

 

[Carbon]

Yeah, that's an interesting point. I just looked up a commentary by Gill who seems to agree with you. For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth,.... This prophecy began to have its accomplishment in the first times of the Gospel, when through the preaching of it there was a new face of things appeared in Judea, and in the Gentile world,

hmmmm, hope you're right ... I want to see me dad again someday. Thanks

I hope it's right also.

I used to read Gil's commentaries. Well, still do, just dont read them as often.

 

[Carbon]

I think once we are with Christ and glorified, we probably will not be bothered by the sorrow and pain of some we knew who may not be there. But instead, we will probably be in agreement with their judgement.

I hope this is correct also. I think it would be pretty devastating to see some that I love not in heaven, but judged instead.

 

[prism]

The person who died and was resuscitated, stated he "just was," simply "being," in a "white light" that was indescribable love.
He did not have a physical body so he could not act, he could not feel or think. It was just awareness of himself and the light.
There was nothing happening to make a memory, no time.
Just awareness of the "light" that radiated love and peace.
That "awareness" and his sense of being himself in the presence of another...would be the soul, resting until the resurrection.
At least it fits my understanding of death and what happens afterward

Sounds a bit New-Agey to me.

 

[QVQ]

Sounds a bit New-Agey to me.

It is simply a person telling what happened when he flat lined in an ambulance on the way to the hospital and was later brought back to life.
I was interested in what he experienced and this is what the person states happened to him while he was flatlined, dead.

The person is not particularly religious. Just an ordinary person who obeys the commandments, doesn't lie or steal or cheat on his wife. Basically content with the world. Doesn't have a "theology" and not much interested in religion other than treating his world decently.
I asked him if he affirmed the Nicene Creed which he wasn't really aware of as a written Creed but after I read it, he said "yes."
Especially believed the Resurrection and the Trinity. The Christian religion just makes sense to him, according to him, the Commandments, the Creed.
So no new agy, or any other denomination or religious tradition

Interesting tale to me, anyway.

 

[Josheb]

The person who died and was resuscitated, stated he "just was," simply "being," in a "white light" that was indescribable love.
He did not have a physical body so he could not act, he could not feel or think. It was just awareness of himself and the light.
There was nothing happening to make a memory, no time.
Just awareness of the "light" that radiated love and peace.
That "awareness" and his sense of being himself in the presence of another...would be the soul, resting until the resurrection.
At least it fits my understanding of death and what happens afterward

Can you find an account of a bodiless soul or spirit in scripture?

 

[Josheb]

I think we will. We all have our own identities, but they will not be so important.

That, then, is an answer to the question asked.

I think it was.

Me too (for the reasons already posted).

 

[Josheb]

My default is to take things literally unless a parable or eschatology.

That is good practice. The "rule" is to read the words with their normal meaning in their ordinary usage unless there is something in the surrounding text that provides a reason to do otherwise. There is plenty in the passage previously referenced providing that reason.

I read Isaiah 65:17 literally but you bring up an interesting view point on the verse and your literary skills are superior to mine IMO. The idea that God is creating a new heaven and earth gradually had not occurred to me before. That's worth considering.

Yep.

What then are the former things not remembered? In the text and its stated context that would be the covenant-breaking rebellion, not the heavens and earth.

 

[QVQ]

Can you find an account of a bodiless soul or spirit in scripture?

Genesis 35: 18
Matthew 10: 28
2 Corinthians 5: 8
Luke 16: 19-31
Revelation 6: 9

1 Kings 17: 21-22

 

[QVQ]

The first star to literally fall to earth would make earth non-existent. Furthermore, just one star leaving its gravitational point in the cosmos would change the movement of all the other stars. A third of the stars would be more than 60 billion stars! If 60 billion stars left their orbits, then radical changes would occur with all the other heavenly orbs. The entire heavens would be changed, if not also destroyed.

Revelations 21: 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Peter 3: 10 - 12 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything done in it will be laid bare.

I am a bit suspicious of your argument that God is evolving creation into "all things new" as it requires so many verses to be interpreted as hyperbolic.

God could destroy everything and make it all new or even exactly as it is. God could create Heaven and Earth. He did it, before He can do it again.
It is what the Bible states. It is a stretch that so many verses about that end event are only hyperbolic. All those verses actually means God is evolving what is old into the new, if not taken literally, but interpreted as hyperbole.
When we start claiming verses are hyperbolic, especially so many verses that state the same concept, where do we stop with labeling a concept supported by multiple verses as hyperbole?

 

[Arial]

I have a friend who died and was resusitated (not to off topic into "near death experiences)
He said he was his essence, no physical,body, only his soul and he was in a "light" that was pure radiant love
He could remember the past but it was fading away.
It was perfect love and peace, all the world washed away but he was still distinctly himself, as a soul and God was a distinct essence or being that was a "light" of perfect love and peace.
He also states emphatically that there aren't any words to describe his experience because all our words define this world, such as "light" which he saw but doesn't have the words to truly convey.

"For now we see the glass darkly, but then face to face" was his best description of the experience.

No one dies before their time. God, and only God, can give life, and only he can take it away. The condition of a person who is "dead" and then brought back to life, is based on measurable bodily functions. If a person is "dead" according to all these measurable functions (brain, heart, breath etc.) and are brought "back to life" by measurable standards, what they think they experience is not coming face to face with God, or entering heaven, (or hell, and it is interesting that most "death" experiences that are related are all good, even with those who come back saying they were taught very unbiblical things). They are in a state of life that is immeasurable by our machines. It is likely very peaceful, considering that all the cares of the world have just "passed away" since the brain and body are not registering them.