What triggers the New Birth (Regeneration)?

[jeremiah1five]

(#6) The cross of Christ.
Atonement is the trigger (Son.)
The gun is God (the Father.)
The Holy Spirit the bullet.
The elect the target.
Bullseye!

 

[Red Baker]

I've always been taught (by Lutherans and Reformed Baptists) that God uses means. I do not assume that man 'takes over' at any point as "Salvation is of the Lord" (Jonah 2:9).
So perhaps I'm asking "What means does God use to 'trigger' regeneration?

What means did he use toward Abel? What means did God use toward Abraham when he called him alone out of his father's house who worshipped other gods.

Isaiah 51:2~" Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him."

God do not use any means whatsoever in the new birth. It is a birth by God alone~unseen~unknown, and unperceived; these three are known by one's conversion to the truth. Regeneration and conversion are not the same.

Regeneration is God’s supernatural, omnipotent, instantaneous, creative work to give a rebel sinner a new nature that loves Him and wants to serve Him. Conversion is the lifelong educational process of a one of these regenerate persons coming to know God and the truth of the gospel for his comfort and knowledge and for how he should live in the world to please God.

Confusion on these truth, lead to error on regeneration of a sinner.

https://letgodbetrue.com/bible-topics/index/salvation/regeneration-and-conversion-roland/ Written by Roland Crosby a ninety five year old saint that is still living and with a very sound mind.

 

[prism]

What means did he use toward Abel? What means did God use toward Abraham when he called him alone out of his father's house who worshipped other gods.

I don't hold that OT saints were regenerated without biblical support. (Promises of a 'new covenant' in the future included the new birth).

God do not use any means whatsoever in the new birth. It is a birth by God alone~unseen~unknown, and unperceived; these three are known by one's conversion to the truth. Regeneration and conversion are not the same.

I understand this view, but there are other views e.g. 1Pet 1:23

Regeneration is God’s supernatural, omnipotent, instantaneous, creative work to give a rebel sinner a new nature that loves Him and wants to serve Him. Conversion is the lifelong educational process of a one of these regenerate persons coming to know God and the truth of the gospel for his comfort and knowledge and for how he should live in the world to please God.

IOW, Semper Reformanda

Confusion on these truth, lead to error on regeneration of a sinner.

I see them as separate.

I had originally wanted to setup this thread as a poll, as I was interested in how others view this matter. I'm not personally inquiring of the matter. I just couldn't figure out how to setup the thread as a poll.

 

[prism]

(#6) The cross of Christ.
Atonement is the trigger (Son.)
The gun is God (the Father.)
The Holy Spirit the bullet.
The elect the target.
Bullseye!

So the ‘trigger’ just sits dormant until the Trinity pulls it?

 

[jeremiah1five]

So the ‘trigger’ just sits dormant until the Trinity pulls it?

Before the cross, God's elect Israel was "kept."
At the cross the 'trigger' was pulled, and heaven began to be populated with His saints.
No One of Trinity is 'dormant.'
It was the Father's plan.
The Son implemented the plan.
The Holy Spirit applies the plan to God's elect - past, present, and future.

 

[prism]

At the cross the 'trigger' was pulled, and heaven began to be populated with His saints.

so Moses and Elijah at the Mount of Transfiguration, stepped ahead in line?

 

[jeremiah1five]

so Moses and Elijah at the Mount of Transfiguration, stepped ahead in line?

Meaning what? You think I'm saying someone ascended into heaven before Christ?
No, those are leanings on your own understanding, especially since I didn't say that.

No one ascended into heaven first except Christ.
Not even Elijah.
Well, he ascended into first heaven but that's only the atmosphere from the ground to where outer space begins.

You have no idea where the OT saints went when they died?
The only thing I can think of is they were "kept" at Eden with a cherub holding a large sword that turned this way and that as guard to keep out the tourists.
Their bodies remained in the grave, but their consciousness could have remained there too, but in death one enters eternity and for the dead person who is born-again and dies it would be instantaneous, which helps me understand Saul's statement "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."
But then David said, "Where can I go from your Presence? If I'm in hell (grave) you are there."
OT flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God (who is Christ) because the kingdom of God who is Christ hadn't arrived yet. So, OT saints were "kept" somewhere until faith (Holy Spirit) should appear (and apply salvation bought on the cross by the Son.) THEN it becomes to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

What do you think.

 

[prism]

At the cross the 'trigger' was pulled, and heaven began to be populated with His saints.

so Moses and Elijah at the Mount of Transfiguration, stepped ahead in line?

Meaning what? You think I'm saying someone ascended into heaven before Christ?

Meaning heaven was already being populated before the cross (at least by Moses and Elijah).

 

[jeremiah1five]

Meaning heaven was already being populated before the cross (at least by Moses and Elijah).

Putting words in my comment?
DID I SAY heaven was populated BEFORE the cross?
Try reading my comment again.

 

[prism]

Putting words in my comment?
DID I SAY heaven was populated BEFORE the cross?
Try reading my comment again.

You asked what I meant, so I told you.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You asked what I meant, so I told you.

No, you told me what I never said.
I never said someone went to heaven before the Lord.

 

[prism]

No, you told me what I never said.
I never said someone went to heaven before the Lord.

Reread. I didn't tell you anything, I asked you...'so Moses and Elijah at the Mount of Transfiguration, stepped ahead in line?'

...in response to this statement of yours..."At the cross the 'trigger' was pulled, and heaven began to be populated with His saints."

So maybe now you can explain your 'trigger' statement?

 

[EarlyActs]

Would His Word be considered a secondary cause?

1 Peter 1:23 NKJV
having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

analysis paralysis!

 

[jeremiah1five]

Reread. I didn't tell you anything, I asked you...'so Moses and Elijah at the Mount of Transfiguration, stepped ahead in line?'

...in response to this statement of yours..."At the cross the 'trigger' was pulled, and heaven began to be populated with His saints."

So maybe now you can explain your 'trigger' statement?

I may not be able to tell you where Elijah and Moses were specifically before they appeared with Jesus at the Mount. But one's body is in the grave next to his wife, Sarah; the other is probable being "kept" somewhere with the other saints who died at that time but not heaven.
It's not unreasonable to think they could be in Eden the Garden of God where the dead souls of the Old Testament saints are being kept. There's nowhere else in Scripture that identifies any possible place where the dead saints go awaiting their redemption from God.

Salvation/Redemption/Deliverance/, is of God.

It is the Father's Plan.
The Son implemented the Plan (trigger - as in pulled the trigger in order to send the Holy Spirit and apply the salvation bought by the Son. The Father's plan could not advance without the Son's death which opened the door ("I am the door of the sheep').
The Holy Spirit applies the Plan to God's elect once He arrived on the planet and after Jesus Christ died for the sheep ("The good shepherd giveth His life for the sheep), then all those "kept" were released and went to heaven. But no one had entered glory with God until the Holy Spirit arrived and applied the salvation plan to God's elect.
His Ministry also confronts those who've blasphemed the Holy Spirit (non-elect) by being on the planet at the same time as the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is the trigger that allows the Holy Spirit out of the barrel and bullseye upon God's elect.