What triggers the New Birth (Regeneration)?

[donadams]

Hmmm.... You're not paying attention, are you?

Post 15 quote me and @Arial, not the op, not whoever "he" is. I never asked a question and the question Arial asked was not asked of you or your content. Post 15's, "The apostles administer the kingdom! You cannot enter on your own no diy religion or covenant!" has nothing to do with the op.

A response was posted, but it was not an answer to anything asked.

Prism asked the original question!

What triggers the new birth?


1.Water Baptism?


2. The Gospel message?


3. Faith in the Gospel message?


4. Depends on the person.


5. God's sovereign, He chooses how.

I answered 1) water baptism

No problems

 

[donadams]

That's not what the OP says.

BTW, the word, "triggers", in the context of the OP, seems to assume that something causes it to begin, like a spark can start a fire, but that the trigger does not actually regenerate. I call 'bogus question'.

Scripture says faith and baptism

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

no man knows exactly when he was born again by the SPirit of God, no man, conversion yes, regenerated no~per John 3:

I have no recollection of my first birth, ( and neither do you btw ) no more than I do of my second birth by God's Spirit. We can get close maybe, but impossible to know exactly when it took place. Regeneration and conversion though many make them one and the same, they certainly are not.

TOTALLY FALSE!!!! I was born again by the SPirit of God in the spring of 1963 in my bedroom on Roe Drive in South Houston, TX. There's no question about that whatsoever, as witnessed by the simple FACT that EVERYTHING CHANGED that evening, and I was basically DIFFERENT - no more hopelessness, no Fear of the future, no longer suicidal, and CLEAN!!!

If you have "No Recollection" of the point at which you passed from DEATH into LIFE, then on what basis do you claim to be a Christian???

 

[Josheb]

Prism asked the original question!

Post 15 not quote Prism. It quotes two completely different posters and does not in any way, shape. form, or degree answer the question asked by those quoted. Now you're trying to make excuses, defend, and dismiss the problem rather than acknowledge it and fix it. That fact in evidence is that Post 14 answers the op, not Post 15. You have misrepresented your own posts. The apostles, the Magisterium, and RCC doctrine frown on that sort of conduct.

This thread is about what triggers the new birth, and it is NOT apostles administering the kingdom that triggers the new birth. Ignoring a thread's topic with attempts to hijack every thread you enter with Roman Catholicism isn't just rude and disrespectful; it's not very Catholic (or apostolic). Maybe Prism will tolerate that subterfuge but I won't, and you know I won't, so I also know every time you quote my posts and respond off-topic RCCism I also know you are trolling and doing so consciously with deliberate disrespect. Pick someone else.

 

[Arial]

TOTALLY FALSE!!!! I was born again by the SPirit of God in the spring of 1963 in my bedroom on Roe Drive in South Houston, TX. There's no question about that whatsoever, as witnessed by the simple FACT that EVERYTHING CHANGED that evening, and I was basically DIFFERENT - no more hopelessness, no Fear of the future, no longer suicidal, and CLEAN!!!

If you have "No Recollection" of the point at which you passed from DEATH into LIFE, then on what basis do you claim to be a Christian???

What you are expressing in relation to your experience is a result of the new birth, not the new birth itself. The new birth itself is invisible. It is accomplished by the Holy Spirit, who is spirit, and is a spiritual transformation. Spiritual things and beings are invisible to us.

 

[donadams]

Post 15 not quote Prism. It quotes two completely different posters and does not in any way, shape. form, or degree answer the question asked by those quoted. Now you're trying to make excuses, defend, and dismiss the problem rather than acknowledge it and fix it. That fact in evidence is that Post 14 answers the op, not Post 15. You have misrepresented your own posts. The apostles, the Magisterium, and RCC doctrine frown on that sort of conduct.

This thread is about what triggers the new birth, and it is NOT apostles administering the kingdom that triggers the new birth. Ignoring a thread's topic with attempts to hijack every thread you enter with Roman Catholicism isn't just rude and disrespectful; it's not very Catholic (or apostolic). Maybe Prism will tolerate that subterfuge but I won't, and you know I won't, so I also know every time you quote my posts and respond off-topic RCCism I also know you are trolling and doing so consciously with deliberate disrespect. Pick someone else.

You said the OP and that was prism and I answered correctly

Can a man accomplish the new birth on his own efforts?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

What you are expressing in relation to your experience is a result of the new birth, not the new birth itself. The new birth itself is invisible. It is accomplished by the Holy Spirit, who is spirit, and is a spiritual transformation. Spiritual things and beings are invisible to us.

So YOU CLAIM that when you're born again of the Holy Spirit and HE INDWELLS YOU, that you won't be aware that anything is different???!!!

I'll take vanilla.

 

[donadams]

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, giving grace and union (by faith and baptism / water and the spirit) with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ!


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[prism]

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, giving grace and union (by faith and baptism / water and the spirit) with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ!


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

I reported this as a definite derailment of the original post. Please don't veer off topic. If you don't know the answer to the OP, then please don't use the thread to slip in RCC dogma.

 

[Red Baker]

So YOU CLAIM that when you're born again of the Holy Spirit and HE INDWELLS YOU, that you won't be aware that anything is different???!!!

I'll take vanilla.

Bob, I respect your age and your faith in our Lord Jesus, yet on this point you are wrong.

When we are born of God we are no different than a new born child from his mother's womb, no different my friend. We will begin to desire the sincere milk of the word, just as a newborn child does ~ but that's all we can do, surely one cannot even yet eat baby food from jars. For the first few months we do nothing more than take in milk, mess all over ourselves and sleep. Now, why would you think it is much different in the spiritual realm? It is not.

Let me go to John 3:1-8 and prove to you that NIcodemus did not even know what it meant to be born again, yet he was born of God if we follow the context of John 3:1-8 in the discourse between him and Jesus. Please consider what I shall highlight for you to consider:

John 3:1-9~"There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus ( poor ole Bob ) saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter ( or, see the things of God ) into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?"

"The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest except God be with him."

This confession by Nicodemus is a confession by a child of God, just as Jesus said with emphasis on the double verily. Nicodemus' confession is just as powerful and godly as anyone of this forum could give or in any church in this world. His confession concerning Christ is so much different than most other Pharisees who accused Christ of being demon possessed. Just as our Lord said: "I say unto thee. except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God, yet NIcodemus DID SEE, and knew that God was with him.

Nicodemus' spiritual understanding of biblical truth was mush to be desired for sure, even though he was a ruler in Israel. He asked Jesus how can a man be born when he is old, can he enter the second time into his mother's womb? Based on Nicodemus' question Jesus said these words:

John 3:5~"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

If Nicodemus had not mentioned entering into his mother's womb the second time ( so we know Jesus used the words born AGAIN ) Jesus would have never used the word "water"~and we know this by the fact water is not mentioned again.

Jesus is emphasizing the new birth is a brith by the Spirit of God, resulting in one being able to hear, see, and eventually understanding spiritual truths.

John 3:6-8~"That which is born of the flesh is flesh; ( born of water form our mother's womb ) and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. ( to be able to see spiritual truths concerning the kingdom of God, which Nicodemus could see, yet with very little light at that time in his life ) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."

Once the Spirit of God quickens one to life, that person at once has the power to see and know truths that are from God, but not until then.

This spiritual birth is unknown in its bringing forth, it can only be known by certain fruits, like believing, a desire to repent, and a desire to follow Christ, a desire to live differently, etc. etc.

It may not show itself all at once but gradually, just as newborn babies do not start out running, but there is a growth period to be expected.

All men are different and come from different backgrounds, etc. Nicodemus did not immediately break off from the Pharisees as we know from John's gospel, yet he came to help with Jesus' burial. John 7:50-52; 19:39

I went fast through this but enough said to get my point across.

 

[donadams]

I reported this as a definite derailment of the original post. Please don't veer off topic. If you don't know the answer to the OP, then please don't use the thread to slip in RCC dogma.

You asked and the first answer is water baptism which I chose but I guess I’m not allowed to explain it? Thanks

 

[makesends]

Scripture says faith and baptism

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

I'm not arguing your point. I'm just saying, that isn't what the OP asked. If that is what the thread is about, the OP is misleading. I call more than bogus-- I call foul!

And can you tell me what the word 'TRIGGER' is for there?

 

[prism]

I'm not arguing your point. I'm just saying, that isn't what the OP asked. If that is what the thread is about, the OP is misleading. I call more than bogus-- I call foul!

And can you tell me what the word 'TRIGGER' is for there?

Actually, I reported your post #68.

 

[donadams]

I'm not arguing your point. I'm just saying, that isn't what the OP asked. If that is what the thread is about, the OP is misleading. I call more than bogus-- I call foul!

And can you tell me what the word 'TRIGGER' is for there?

Trigger or the cos

 

[prism]

And can you tell me what the word 'TRIGGER' is for there?

Being the OP, what I had in mind was what 'sparks' or what is the catalyst that God uses in the new birth.
It's easy to say 'God does', but harder to describe the means or process He uses.

 

[makesends]

Being the OP, what I had in mind was what 'sparks' or what is the catalyst that God uses in the new birth.
It's easy to say 'God does', but harder to describe the means or process He uses.

Assumes there is a catalyst or 'spark'. Not sure if the reasoning that asks for such a thing assumes that man takes over at some point or what...

The new birth IS the Spirit of God taking up permanent residence-- HE is the newness, the transformation, our union with God. It is not done by anyone and is not 'sparked' by anything, unless you can say that, logically, it is the effect of God's choice from before the foundation of the world, and done by his decree.

 

[prism]

Assumes there is a catalyst or 'spark'. Not sure if the reasoning that asks for such a thing assumes that man takes over at some point or what...

The new birth IS the Spirit of God taking up permanent residence-- HE is the newness, the transformation, our union with God. It is not done by anyone and is not 'sparked' by anything, unless you can say that, logically, it is the effect of God's choice from before the foundation of the world, and done by his decree.

I've always been taught (by Lutherans and Reformed Baptists) that God uses means. I do not assume that man 'takes over' at any point as "Salvation is of the Lord" (Jonah 2:9).
So perhaps I'm asking "What means does God use to 'trigger' regeneration?

 

[makesends]

I've always been taught (by Lutherans and Reformed Baptists) that God uses means. I do not assume that man 'takes over' at any point as "Salvation is of the Lord" (Jonah 2:9).
So perhaps I'm asking "What means does God use to 'trigger' regeneration?

That's a tautology of sorts. Still using "trigger" as though it means something in that context. Yes, God uses means, but that doesn't mean that he triggers it by means; he regenerates by direct action.

 

[prism]

That's a tautology of sorts. Still using "trigger" as though it means something in that context. Yes, God uses means, but that doesn't mean that he triggers it by means; he regenerates by direct action.

Oh, BTW, I made a mistake in addressing you in post #73, it was meant for @donadams . (You've probably figured that out already)
I used trigger to avoid any type of mysticism, where God allegedly communicates directly to individuals.

 

[makesends]

Oh, BTW, I made a mistake in addressing you in post #73, it was meant for @donadams . (You've probably figured that out already)
I used trigger to avoid any type of mysticism, where God allegedly communicates directly to individuals.

Oh, ok. I get you then. Thought you were kicking the can down the road, restating a notion along the lines of God only kickstarting regeneration, or, just as bad, that we kickstart it and God follows up to complete it.