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What is the doctrine of Eternal Security?

Quiz time!

What is the fire? I gave you a hint with ez 36

How do we put on Christ?

Thks
We put him on as our armor by obeying sola scriptura.

Not the doctrine the Catholic eternal security. . . sufferings wondering, suffering wondering, sufferings and wondering in Limbo as those who do despite to the "fullness of Christ's labor of love the full price of salvations. . . the end of earthly suffering, receiving the end of their new born again faith from the very beginning (1 Peter 1 :11

Ezekiel 36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; (the infalible interpreter )Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken (sola scriptura) against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

There must be difference as heresies (personal opinions) among the born again believers .None are judgeable with the exception of one doing despite the fullness of grace again the whole cost of salvation t

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets (oral traditions of dying mankind) also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers( Teaching oral commandment of dying mankind) among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

No salvation according to Catholicism just like the Pharisees carbon copy . . just much wonderings sufferings. never coming to the end as their eternal security a lyng wonder

2 Thessalonian 2: ?9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Limbo sufferings wondering denies the Lord that bought them. Leaving the non venerable without a living hope beyond the grave Limbo is there hope.
 
You ignored Ephesians 1:13-14 because you hate it.
Eph 1:13-14

13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (baptism) justification not salvation

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

If we hold to our profession of faith and abide in grace and christ enduring to the end!

Thks
 
What is your point? It does say "saved"!
Saved does not refer to salvation but to redemption!

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, giving grace and union (by faith and baptism / water and the spirit) with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ! Must be in Christ born again by faith and baptism, Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 united to God and His communion of saints thru Christ the mediator and the grace of God!


Redemption :
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
 
makesends said:
You can't see how you've added to Scripture? Ephesians 2: "8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast."

Just for a real obvious start, in all the verses you quoted, there is no mention of an apostolic church. You have extrapolated what it does say, with the notion that the authority of the apostles continues to YOUR church, the RCC, and not the THE church, the Body of Christ universal.

Remember, that while Ephesians 2:8 has to fit all the rest of the Bible, the rest of the Bible has to fit Ephesians 2:8 also.


donadams said:
Apostolic church? Matt 16:18-19 Peter is an apostle
Matt 18:18 apostles
Jn 20:21 apostles
Eph 2:20 apostles

makesends said:
....and...?
The church must be:
One
Holy
Catholic
And apostolic!
The question is not whether there were apostles in the New Testament —of course there were! But, how does it follow, then, that the church must be a catholic visible body, and how does it follow that there must be apostolic succession to present day? You have added to the Word.
 
We put him on as our armor by obeying sola scriptura.

Not the doctrine the Catholic eternal security. . . sufferings wondering, suffering wondering, sufferings and wondering in Limbo as those who do despite to the "fullness of Christ's labor of love the full price of salvations. . . the end of earthly suffering, receiving the end of their new born again faith from the very beginning (1 Peter 1 :11

Ezekiel 36:5 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; (the infalible interpreter )Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken (sola scriptura) against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all their heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.

There must be difference as heresies (personal opinions) among the born again believers .None are judgeable with the exception of one doing despite the fullness of grace again the whole cost of salvation t

2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets (oral traditions of dying mankind) also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers( Teaching oral commandment of dying mankind) among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

No salvation according to Catholicism just like the Pharisees carbon copy . . just much wonderings sufferings. never coming to the end as their eternal security a lyng wonder

2 Thessalonian 2: ?9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Limbo sufferings wondering denies the Lord that bought them. Leaving the non venerable without a living hope beyond the grave Limbo is there hope.
No! Gal 3:27! We put in Christ by baptism!

The fire is the love of God! Ez 36:25/27 new heart to love God
Deut. 6:4 and

Romans 5:5
And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
 
Saved does not refer to salvation but to redemption!

Salvation is not a only doctrine a doctrine to be believed, but a sacrifice / atonement, giving grace and union (by faith and baptism / water and the spirit) with the person of Christ the mediator, members of Christ! Must be in Christ born again by faith and baptism, Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 united to God and His communion of saints thru Christ the mediator and the grace of God!


Redemption :
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part. All mankind is redeemed.
Lk 2:11 Jn 1:29 rm 5:8 1 pet 1:21-23
God gives all men sufficient truth and grace for salvation.

Justification:
then if we accept His redemption we are justified, born again by faith and baptism. Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 8:36 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:21

Sanctification:
Members of Christ and his church by grace we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, suffering other sacraments etc. until death. Phil 1:29

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation! Mk 13:13 Matt 24:13

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Jn 15:4 abide in Christ Matt 3:16 believes (present tense) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

Glorification:

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
This does not show how 'saved' is different from 'salvation'. That the different operators in our human logic of categorizing this or that is necessary, does not mean that 'saved' is different from 'salvation'. Now, if 'salvation' can only refer to the end result —let's call it, 'the arrival in Heaven'— then you might have a point, since the born-again are also saved from the power of sin over us during our temporal journey.

BTW, I disagree completely, that all mankind is redeemed. God does no halfway work.
 
makesends said:
You can't see how you've added to Scripture? Ephesians 2: "8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast."

Just for a real obvious start, in all the verses you quoted, there is no mention of an apostolic church. You have extrapolated what it does say, with the notion that the authority of the apostles continues to YOUR church, the RCC, and not the THE church, the Body of Christ universal.

Remember, that while Ephesians 2:8 has to fit all the rest of the Bible, the rest of the Bible has to fit Ephesians 2:8 also.


donadams said:
Apostolic church? Matt 16:18-19 Peter is an apostle
Matt 18:18 apostles
Jn 20:21 apostles
Eph 2:20 apostles

makesends said:
....and...?

The question is not whether there were apostles in the New Testament —of course there were! But, how does it follow, then, that the church must be a catholic visible body, and how does it follow that there must be apostolic succession to present day? You have added to the Word.
What’s the “body of Christ universal “? The invisible church?

apostolic succession and visible body follow
 
Apostolic succession!

Successors of Jesus Christ!

Matt 28:19-20

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

So there must be successors to the apostles, the USA was not a nation for 1800 years after the apostles, yet He says teach all nations!

And behold I am with you (the apostles) to the end of the world!

Acts 1:8 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

The apostles must have successors!

Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Same mission, power, and authority Jn 20:21-23

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

The successors of Moses sit in the seat of Moses Matt 23:1
Having the authority of the keys and power to bind and loose, and Jesus commands them to be obeyed!

This authority taken from them and given to the new covenant church!
Matt 21:43 Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19 Jn 20:21

And they must be obeyed!

The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Behold I am with you (the apostles) until the end of the world,so the successors of the apostles must remain until the end of the world) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)



Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

apostolic succession!

explicit and implicit in scripture

Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Matthias succeeded him as apostle

acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Isa 22 21-22 prime minister called father!
Holding the keys of the kingdom under the king Lk 1:32-33 in the line of david!
Matt 16:18


apostolic succession!

explicit and implicit in scripture

Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Matthias succeeded him as apostle

acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Isa 22 21-22 prime minister called father!
Holding the keys of the kingdom under the king Lk 1:32-33 in the line of david!
Matt 16:18


Church fathers and doctors witnesses of Christ! Acts 1:8

CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE
“[T]he Church is one, and as she is one, cannot be both within and without. For if she is with [the heretic] Novatian, she was not with [Pope] Cornelius. But if she was with Cornelius, who succeeded the bishop [of Rome], Fabian, by lawful ordination, and whom, beside the honor of the priesthood the Lord glorified also with martyrdom, Novatian is not in the Church; nor can he be reckoned as a bishop, who, succeeding to no one, and despising the evangelical and apostolic tradition, sprang from himself. For he who has not been ordained in the Church can neither have nor hold to the Church in any way” (Letters 69[75]:3 [A.D. 253]).

JEROME
“Far be it from me to speak adversely of any of these clergy who, in succession from the apostles, confect by their sacred word the Body of Christ and through whose efforts also it is that we are Christians” (Letters 14:8 [A.D. 396]).

AUGUSTINE
“[T]here are many other things which most properly can keep me in [the Catholic Church’s] bosom. The unanimity of peoples and nations keeps me here. Her authority, inaugurated in miracles, nourished by hope, augmented by love, and confirmed by her age, keeps me here. The succession of priests, from the very see of the apostle Peter, to whom the Lord, after his resurrection, gave the charge of feeding his sheep [John 21:15–17], up to the present episcopate, keeps me here. And last, the very name Catholic, which, not without reason, belongs to this Church alone, in the face of so many heretics, so much so that, although all heretics want to be called ‘Catholic,’ when a stranger inquires where the Catholic Church meets, none of the heretics would dare to point out his own basilica or house” (Against the Letter of Mani Called “The Foundation” 4:5 [A.D. 397]).
 
The new covenant church!

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5 (the church is the new Jerusalem the kingdom) gal 4:26 (one church) Jn 10:16

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Daniel 6:26
I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.

Daniel 7:14
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Rev 21: 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

Gal 4:26 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Holy mother church!

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; see Isa 22:21-22
(Keys of the kingdom / jurisdictional authority) Matt 16:17-19

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matt 21:43 taken from Israel given to Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20
 
This does not show how 'saved' is different from 'salvation'. That the different operators in our human logic of categorizing this or that is necessary, does not mean that 'saved' is different from 'salvation'. Now, if 'salvation' can only refer to the end result —let's call it, 'the arrival in Heaven'— then you might have a point, since the born-again are also saved from the power of sin over us during our temporal journey.

BTW, I disagree completely, that all mankind is redeemed. God does no halfway work.
Is Christ the redeemer of mankind? Jn 1:29

Redemption not salvation

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers something that has already occurred, the redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement. “Not of yourselves”
 
All men are redeemed and have the possibility of justification / sanctification / and salvation

Jn 3:16 whosoever!

Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Thks
 
What’s the “body of Christ universal “? The invisible church?

apostolic succession and visible body follow
How? The Body of Christ is the redeemed. THAT is the Church.
 
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