What and when is the thousand years? Part 4

[CrowCross]

So how can you have a bottomless pit?

A pit has to have a bottom to be a pit obviously its symbolic for a spiritual condition.

Take it up with the Bible.....the bible speaks of a bottomless pit.

The universe isn't limited to our 3D world.

 

[Red Baker]

Thanks did not know he was from the Amil camp.

Seems odd some say he was Catholic.

The Catholics try hard to claim him, only because back then (150 to 450) the early church fathers as they are called by many, used the words Catholic church when speaking of others believers, followers of Christ~ so, to them it only meant the universal church of the believers, not what we today know as the Catholic church.....far from it!

Catholic--The word comes from the Greek meaning "through the whole," that is "universal," "world-wide," "all inclusive." This is the meaning when the word starts with a lower-case c as in "We need to become more catholic in our attitudes." In talking about the "Catholic church" (Catholic with a capital C), members of The Catholic church.

Very deceitful in what they are doing in saying he was one of them!

 

[Red Baker]

Revelation 20:1-3~"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."

The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him to shew unto his servants things that must come to pass shortly. Shortly includes the final judgment and the new heavens and earth ~ so shortly, at hand, means shortly at hand as far as God views time, not so much as we do. Yet, that being said, at hand does not mean thousands of years from when these words of prophecy were given. Based upon our understanding, we are living in the very, very last days of this world's history, as we may consider later on in these posts.

Our understanding will be presented from an amill, idealist position, which we have come to understand and believe we can defend it, or else I would not be here attempting to do so.

Revelation as anyone with a little understanding can see, that this book was not written in an chronological order. Many chapters will give us a bird's eye view of the church age as it progresses throughout time from Pentecost to the end of time when time shall be no more, and its final corrupt state in which the church will end up in, just as Israel of old did and the judgement that will follow ~ and the very elect suffering at her hand, more so than from the world, even though that will also come upon the very elect.

VERSE ONE~"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand".

Remember that Revelation is a book of signs, figurative symbols, and metaphorical representations, which even the most learned Bible students struggle with.

The chapter opens with obvious figurative language, reminding us to avoid literal interpretations.

The angel, key, and chain signify heavenly power limiting Satan’s influence. These words cannot be literal, because a spirit is not chained in a pit with no bottom and locked up by a chain and key!

If it were truly a bottomless pit, things would fall out the bottom into oblivion, or be able to escape. If he were literally bound and locked in a bottomless pit, he would not be walking about (Ist Peter 5:8) which he is. We already learned that Michael fought against the devil and cast him out of heaven (Rev 12:7-9).

The bottomless pit is a symbol of authoritative and inescapable incarceration – very similar to us using the figure “throw away the key.” We do not do any such thing, but use a figurative sense. By reading ahead, we can learn that the bottomless pit is a prison where Satan is restrained (20:7). John earlier warned that Satan being cast out of heaven brings danger to earth (Revelation 12:12). As we are going to read shortly, the binding pertains only to his ability to deceive nations (20:3) to the degree he did so during the OT period when most of the world was under his power; but, after Jesus' death and resurrection~God is visiting the Gentiles nations to take out of them a people for his name sake; so, in order to do this, Satan is bound/restrained by God so his servants can go forth and preach deliverance to the captives in those nations.

So by understanding the church epistles we know that the word bound means only that Satan is restrained from using his power to keep his Gentiles, and some Jews, but mostly Gentiles captives bound. More on this as we go forward.

 

[Mr GLee]

If it were truly a bottomless pit, things would fall out the bottom into oblivion, or be able to escape. If he were literally bound and locked in a bottomless pit, he would not be walking about (Ist Peter 5:8) which he is. We already learned that Michael fought against the devil and cast him out of heaven (Rev 12:7-9).

Hi thanks

Yes, he saw a theophany, vision or a dream in that parable .

He did not literally see anything .It is called walking by faith, the power of God. The power he works in those born again from above. Freely giving us His understanding of the unseen eternal things of our invisible head Christ the husband of the bride

Same mistake as when Peter one that sought after a outward sign before he would believe God. Sign and wonder seeker like Nicodemus .

It is revealed in the parable Mathew 17 when Peter thought building 3 tabernacle made with the hands as a will of dying mankind could hold a spirit being without form.

Therefore revealing that Peter the sign and wonder seeker was walking by sight after the temporal dying things seen and not by faith the unseen eternal power of Christ our husband

Matthew 17:4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.


Luke 8:29-31King James Version29 (For he had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man. For oftentimes it had caught him: and he was kept bound with "chains" and in fetters; and he brake the bands, and was driven of the devil into the wilderness.)And Jesus asked him, saying, What is thy name? And he said, Legion: because many devils were entered into him. And they besought him that he would not command them to go out into the deep

Again Peter. . . a sign and wonder seeker (John 4:48) He was seduced by Legion the spirit of lies that works in all false prophets as antichrists' ,(many legion) of false apostles, false prophets .

Christ revealing the man of sin (Lucifer the Legion) . In that way Satan is revealed as the usurper of the key. The same key found in Revelation 20 parable.

Mathew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Satan the serpent revealing his goal which began in the garden Eden ".I will be like God" The spirit of false apostles, false prophets .Seducing mankind to believer Eternal God is a Jewish man as King of kings

Peter used as a false prophet seduced mankind . Rebuking the lord (Christ) forbidding the Son of man, Jesus from doing the will of the Father, Christ.

Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy against the son of man Jesus dying mankind.

Mathew 16:22-24 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee. But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men

In that way the Spirit of Christ yoked with us reveals the foundation of Catholicism. False prophecies, oral traditons of dying mankind, sent as false apostles .

 

[Red Baker]

Hi thanks

Yes, he saw a theophany, vision or a dream in that parable .

He did not literally see anything .

Sir, very briefly, since I do not want to leave the context of Revelation 20, and get sidetrack, which is very easy to do.

Well did he see, or did he not see, you cannot have it both ways?

He certainly did not see a theophany~The word theophany is a combination of two Greek words, meaning God and appearance.

John said the saw an angel, and this angel was not Jesus Christ as many suppose~I believe it was Michael the archangel, who does have the power and strength to stop Satan. No where in the scriptures does it say he does not~he is that great prince that stands for the people of God.

Michael is not Jesus Christ as the Jehovah "false" Witnesses' believe and others with them. Another study for another day, not now.

Yes, he saw a theophany, vision or a dream in that parable .

Revelation chapter 20 is no parable ~but, truths that will happen just as John said it would, which truths are hidden in this vision, by using highly symbolically language, that can be understood, by using plain verses in the NT, as we shall soon see, the Lord willing.

 

[CrowCross]

The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave unto him to shew unto his servants things that must come to pass shortly.

Shortly...quickness...soon...

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.......

The word used is 5034. tachos. The word tachos is where we get out word tachometer, like on the dashboard of your ca.r. It doesn't measure speed but rather RPM's or the "quickness" of the engine.
The bible is speaking of things "revving" up as we near the "end". The bible has provided an example of child birth where the mother feels the first of child pains...in travail...then as the baby is about to be delivered the pain and contractions increase becoming closer together, more in frequency.....until the baby is born. Or, until Christ returns at the pre-trib resurrection and rapture.
Look around...things are revving up.

 

[CrowCross]

VERSE ONE~"And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand".

That is what the bible says. That is what John wrote.

Remember that Revelation is a book of signs, figurative symbols, and metaphorical representations, which even the most learned Bible students struggle with.

You seemed to have left literal off your list. Is this an oversight or deception?

The chapter opens with obvious figurative language, reminding us to avoid literal interpretations.

Sometimes there can be a mixture of literal and figurative. For example:
8 Then the second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned to blood, 9 a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.

The literal would be something like a great mountain...something astronomical...asteroid? meteorite? crashing into the sea where a third of the sea creatures die literally...and a third of the ships being destroyed literally....but, I don't think the sea will be turned into blood (figurative) but perhaps reddish in color.

Revelation 13 with the beast and the mark will be quite literal. As we look around at modern technology we can already seeing it being slowly put into place.

 

[CrowCross]

If it were truly a bottomless pit, things would fall out the bottom into oblivion, or be able to escape. If he were literally bound and locked in a bottomless pit, he would not be walking about (Ist Peter 5:8) which he is. We already learned that Michael fought against the devil and cast him out of heaven (Rev 12:7-9).

Satan isn't currently in the bottomless pit...this is future.

As to the actuality of the pit....and I'm not saying it looks like this...in our 3D world imagine if you could drill a large hole through the center of the earth....then jump in. You would fall, perhaps even seeing the hole on the China side of the earth....Thing is gravity would keep you from falling out of the China side.

Keep in mind....there is more to our world and universe than our limited 3D view.

 

[Red Baker]

Or, until Christ returns at the pre-trib resurrection and rapture.
Look around...things are revving up.

There is no such doctrine taught in the word of God, as a matter of truth, which few have, the book of Revelation deals mostly with great tribulation that shall come upon the false churches, and the war that the devil will a make against the children of God~he will overcome them~in the sense in which they will flee the false congratulations, to a point, where they will almost be unknown to both the false churches and the world outside of these false churches. You will find some of these saints on forums throughout this world, since they have no voice within the false churches of Mystery Babylon~Mystery Babylon being understood in two senses~ one of the false churches IN Mystery Babylon and the other is ~ Mystery Babylon is this world system that has wondered after the beast, which takes in both the religious sector and those who make no sincere confession of Jesus Christ. Enough said for now.

Revelation 13:7​

“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

This will happen during the little season that Satan is loose from his prison.

More on this later, I have other work to take care of for the rest of the day. I may have some time later, we shall see.

 

[CrowCross]

There is no such doctrine taught in the word of God, as a matter of truth, which few have, the book of Revelation deals mostly with great tribulation that shall come upon the false churches, and the war that the devil will a make against the children of God~he will overcome them~in the sense in which they will flee the false congratulations, to a point, where they will almost be unknown to both the false churches and the world outside of these false churches. You will find some of these saints on forums throughout this world, since they have no voice within the false churches of Mystery Babylon~Mystery Babylon being understood in two senses~ one of the false churches IN Mystery Babylon and the other is ~ Mystery Babylon is this world system that has wondered after the beast, which takes in both the religious sector and those who make no sincere confession of Jesus Christ. Enough said for now.

Revelation 13:7​

“And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

This will happen during the little season that Satan is loose from his prison.

More on this later, I have other work to take care of for the rest of the day. I may have some time later, we shall see.

You do know that after the pre-trib rapture there will be people left who will become believers in Jesus Christ. Perhaps you'll be one of them.

 

[Ghada]

Summary
I believe that the scriptures prove that we are in the 1000-year reign now and that we could be in the time of satans release, his little season.

Scriptures say he is released after the thousand years expire. Scripture therefore cannot even say, much less prove he is released duing the thousand years.

I believe that satan has been bound from deceiving the nations since the day of Pentecost.

I see. This is not about Scriptures of God, but the scriptures of your own beliefe. Now we can compare the difference.

Scriptures of God say Satan is bound at the beginning of the thousand year reign of Christ on earth.

Your scriptures say he was bound several thousand years ago, when your 1000 years began, and continues today, with Satan possibly already loosed.

Once someone says their 1000 years is now several thousand years old, we can safely say the deciever is still on earth.

What would be the reason for a literal 1000-year reign on the earth with a binding of satan only to have him be released to rec havoc on the earth again?

Agreed. Your scriptures' 1000-year reign on the earth for the past several thousand years certainly has havoc enough on it's own.

There is no purpose for it

Agreed. With your scriptural 1000 year reign for the past several thousand years of deciet, unjust rule, and wars, who needs the devil?

The Scriptures of God say it will be so after His Christ's reign of a thousand years of law and order for a thousand years.

Your scriptures say there's no point to it, and so no go. Which I would agree with. We can only thank God your scriptures don't add the devil to the havoc of your 1000-year reign, that after several thousands of years just doesn't seem to want to quit, but only gets worse.

Not once in the New Testament did Jesus nor any of the apostles teach that Jesus will reign literally on the earth for 1000 years in a time of peace.

No, not once, but several times.

Unless you are speaking of the scriptures of your own beliefe again, then of course, not at all.

 

[CrowCross]

I believe that satan has been bound from deceiving the nations since the day of Pentecost.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

 

[Marty]

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober-minded and alert. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.

It’s a spiritual binding from the power of the gospel to those who have it

 

[CrowCross]

It’s a spiritual binding from the power of the gospel to those who have it

1 Peter 5:8 sounds like satan isn't bound.

 

[Marty]

1 Peter 5:8 sounds like satan isn't bound.

Again to those who have it.

If we receive the gospel we are not deceived anymore. That’s why we are warned that satan is roaming like a lion

 

[CrowCross]

If we receive the gospel we are not deceived anymore. That’s why we are warned that satan is roaming like a lion

Oh really??? Can you support that with a verse or two?

 

[Marty]

Oh really??? Can you support that with a verse or two?

Before I believed in the gospel I was deceived by satan but now the truth of the gospel has set me free through the revelation by the Holy Spirit

Titus 3
3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

Notice that Paul says that we once were deceived? Thus we aren’t anymore.

Also notice that revelation states that satan is only bound by deceiving the nations? The power of the gospel is the great chain that binds satan by deceiving the elect.

Now we the elect still do sin but on our own accord we can’t give satan too much credit but satan can still deceive the non believers

 

[CrowCross]

Notice that Paul says that we once were deceived? Thus we aren’t anymore.

As saved christians we can still be deceived.

 

[Marty]

As saved christians we can still be deceived.

Deceived about what is the question?

If the great chain is what binds satan then what is the great chain and what does it bind satan from doing?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Not once in the New Testament did Jesus nor any of the apostles teach that Jesus will reign literally on the earth for 1000 years in a time of peace.

Very true.

I believe that the scriptures prove that we are in the 1000-year reign now and that we could be in the time of satans release, his little season. I believe that satan has been bound from deceiving the nations since the day of Pentecost.

But this is off track. Satan's deception of the nations was renewed at Christ's resurrection-day ascension. That was when Satan and his devils lost the war in heaven and were cast out of heaven down to earth. At that time, an enraged Satan knew he had only a "short time" (aka the "little season") left to operate in this world. John in Revelation 12:12 identified the finishing point of the thousand years by warning the first-century believers that Satan had already come down to the earth in great wrath during that "short time" (aka the "little season") that was THEN going on as John was writing Revelation.

The Rev. 20 thousand-years period is long past. It ended in AD 33, with Satan then having only a "short time" (aka a "little season") in which he could once again deceive the nations for just a little while before God crushed Satan and his devils underfoot "shortly", as promised in Romans 16:20.