Was the Spirit of God Indwelling the Redeemed before Pentecost?

[Dave]

@Dave



No it didnt have anything to do with regeneration. The Saints had Faith way back with Abel Heb 11 and Faith is the fruit of regeneration or the Spirit. The disciples, they were regenerated way b4 Pentecost Jn 1:12-13

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
They were believers first, so they would be given the Holy Spirit Jn 7:39

(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

You cant believe on Christ without being regenerated. Jn 1:12-13

Hi Bright.

Your argument seems to be claiming that I believe that they had no regeneration before Pentecost. But that is not the case. As you have noted, they had faith in the OT. So they did have some regeneration. However, regeneration is more than just coming to faith. I believe that the scripture that I provided shows that difference in that regeneration from the OT to the NT.

And also the fact that It is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, not available until Pentecost, is what allows a person to be born again.

Romans 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

6-8 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

Colossians 2:10-14 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Galatians 3:26-29 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

1 Peter 3:There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

This is why everything had to wait until there was a death, resurrection, and ascension. Before Pentecost, there was not yet an atonement made. The righteousness of God established by Jesus incarnate, thus satisfying God Law perfectly, which is what is imputed to us when we become "in Christ" was not yet done "It is finished". And no death and resurrection, the means by which we are born again, and all of these are the result of our being "in Christ", which is the result of our being baptized by Jesus, from the right hand of the Father, with the Holy Spirit, after Pentecost. Being "in Christ" before Pentecost could save anyone.

Dave

 

[brightfame52]

Hi Bright.

Your argument seems to be claiming that I believe that they had no regeneration before Pentecost. But that is not the case. As you have noted, they had faith in the OT. So they did have some regeneration. However, regeneration is more than just coming to faith. I believe that the scripture that I provided shows that difference in that regeneration from the OT to the NT.

And also the fact that It is the Baptism with the Holy Spirit, not available until Pentecost, is what allows a person to be born again.

Romans 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?

6-8 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. For he who has died has been freed from sin. Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,

Colossians 2:10-14 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power. In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Galatians 3:26-29 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

1 Peter 3:There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

This is why everything had to wait until there was a death, resurrection, and ascension. Before Pentecost, there was not yet an atonement made. The righteousness of God established by Jesus incarnate, thus satisfying God Law perfectly, which is what is imputed to us when we become "in Christ" was not yet done "It is finished". And no death and resurrection, the means by which we are born again, and all of these are the result of our being "in Christ", which is the result of our being baptized by Jesus, from the right hand of the Father, with the Holy Spirit, after Pentecost. Being "in Christ" before Pentecost could save anyone.

Dave

Im finish discussing this fellow. People were born of God way way b4 Pentecost.

 

[makesends]

makesends said:
Or do you think the faith is man-made and not Spirit-generated ...no need for the Spirit's indwelling?

Faith is spirit generated.

Yes, but is it generated by the indwelling Spirit of God, or by the Spirit's once-and-done?

Is it a magical substance that remains intact after the Spirit returns to its usual business?

It is Holy Spirit generated.

Do you equate magical with supernatural?

makesends said:
Not really, no. When I say magical, I usually mean contrary to good sense.

And I don't at all mean, miracle. That is a whole different category.

Then what does this mean? In an earlier post you asked... "Is it a magical substance that remains intact after the Spirit returns to its usual business?"

Good sense tells me that the Spirit remains forever indwelling the believer. It does not tell me that the Spirit generates salvific faith and then leaves the person to whom it gave this faith, (nor does good sense tell me that the Spirit merely assists the person to develop this faith, then goes about its business elsewhere). I'm asking, for the sake of the reader, if Salvific Faith is some Spirit-made (or human-made, for that matter) substance that somehow remains intact and operative apart from the Spirit's continuing work in the believer.

 

[CrowCross]

Good sense tells me that the Spirit remains forever indwelling the believer.

I agree.

It does not tell me that the Spirit generates salvific faith and then leaves the person to whom it gave this faith,

I also agree.

(nor does good sense tell me that the Spirit merely assists the person to develop this faith, then goes about its business elsewhere)

Eph 2:8 indicates faith is a gift from God.
8For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,

. I'm asking, for the sake of the reader, if Salvific Faith is some Spirit-made (or human-made, for that matter) substance that somehow remains intact and operative apart from the Spirit's continuing work in the believer.

Faith grows as a christian matures.

 

[Dave]

Im finish discussing this fellow. People were born of God way way b4 Pentecost.

OK.

Dave