Universalism

[Sereni-tea]

As others have said, allowing it to continue provides opportunities for mature Christians to speak against it and bring awareness to others why it is unbiblical. So at this point I am against banning it. If it starts getting out of hand, then the situation may change. Of course any topic has the potential to get out of hand, depending on the interactions that are happening, but I am not sure this topic has any more potential than any other. Yes, universalism is unbiblical but so are other beliefs that are open for discussion here. Where do we draw the line? If we ban it because of what has happened on other forums, again where do you draw the line, as other topics can also bring out a lot of hostility.

 

[David1701]

What is that other forum?

CARM

 

[David1701]

As others have said, allowing it to continue provides opportunities for mature Christians to speak against it and bring awareness to others why it is unbiblical. So at this point I am against banning it. If it starts getting out of hand, then the situation may change. Of course any topic has the potential to get out of hand, depending on the interactions that are happening, but I am not sure this topic has any more potential than any other. Yes, universalism is unbiblical but so are other beliefs that are open for discussion here. Where do we draw the line? If we ban it because of what has happened on other forums, again where do you draw the line, as other topics can also bring out a lot of hostility.

Generally speaking, that would be my attitude as well; however, I'd be surprised if it turns out better here than elsewhere. It was tried for some time; but attitudes of the Universalists (and Satanists - the other topic that was banned) just didn't improve.

 

[Sereni-tea]

Generally speaking, that would be my attitude as well; however, I'd be surprised if it turns out better here than elsewhere. It was tried for some time; but attitudes of the Universalists (and Satanists - the other topic that was banned) just didn't improve.

And you could be right. I don't know what happened on CARM; I left that forum years ago because of the hostility that was there (not the hostility from members, I expect that, but from those running the site; not to me but to others).

I would take a cautious approach. If a thread here starts getting out of hand, then close it. If it happens again then consider banning the subject. There are many topics here that have and will generate heated discussions. Is Universalism going to be any different? Perhaps so, I don't know.

This is just my thoughts at this time. If @Carbon decides to ban it, I am OK with that too.

 

[fastfredy0]

Mitigating circumstances? For false teaching, viciousness, nastiness and insults, on a regular basis? I find it hard to see what mitigating circumstances there might be for the Universalists indulging in such sin.

I'm talking about the question of the thread and your particular example. I assume the banning in the circumstances you describe is warranted.

 

[David1701]

I'm talking about the question of the thread and your particular example. I assume the banning in the circumstances you describe is warranted.

The thing is that it was only two subjects that were banned (and there are plenty of unpleasant comments on many of the sub-forums there, but the subjects are not banned). I think that it's very telling which two subjects they were - one obvious (Satanism - it doesn't get more evil than that), the other apparently Christian, but the character of the people supporting those "isms" was very, very similar.

We know that there are many other heresies; but, somehow, CARM found that Satanists and Universalists were far and away the worst, in terms of attacking Christians.

1 Tim. 4:1 (WEB) But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,

Rom. 16:17 (KJV) Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

 

[Eleanor]

Should the topic and discussion of the un-Christian teaching of universalism be banned here at CCAM?

This pole will be up for 7 days

Was idolatry debated in Israel?

Why float a topic in total disagreement with the NT?

We don't need the pollution.

 

[Munro]

CARM

I dimly remember that I have been there once ....

 

[fastfredy0]

We don't need the pollution.

Hey, for a dollar and a post saying "Fastfredy is SUPER KEWL" you can buy my vote.
Hmmmm, hope I get a couple of "likes" on proposed post.

 

[Eleanor]

Hey, for a dollar and a post saying "Fastfredy is SUPER KEWL" you can buy my vote.
Hmmmm, hope I get a couple of "likes" on proposed post.

Nuthin's too low for the Lord.

 

[Eleanor]

No.

Many new christians don't know what it is.....and discussions here might give them a more in-depth understanding.

Often the replies are not for the edification of the poster...as they will never change...but rather for those trying to glean info from the forum.

For example Ladodgers6 in post 11 lays it out pretty clear.

And what more then needs to be said when the falsehood of it and NT truth of it has been laid out?

Why the polluting of the NT holy word of God?

 

[Instant]

If the topic is being discussed by only Bible-believing Christians, the outcome will be obvious, but if those that do not believe in the inerrancy of scripture are involved, a discussion on universalism could go on forever with no resolution. I voted No but if the discussion must be Bible-based, I think it might be good to allow it.

 

[Carbon]

2 more days left on this vote.

 

[civic]

No I think everyone should be able to debate their beliefs whether they are orthodox or heterodox. Some need to learn how to defend against that position and by watching the discussions can learn how that is done. Just my 2 cents fwiw.

My personal opinion is it is banned in some places out of fear. If you stand on the truth, defend it from scripture then the heresy will be exposed for all to see.

 

[Rockerduck]

I remember when a group called the Sabbath Keepers were invading all the forums on Facebook and arguing incessantly. Now, I see Universalists doing the same thing. I can't help but wonder if their leaders are telling them to go on forums and argue. Another way to look at it is Satanic attacks on Christianity in the last days.

 

[Dave_Regenerated]

The thing is that it was only two subjects that were banned (and there are plenty of unpleasant comments on many of the sub-forums there, but the subjects are not banned). I think that it's very telling which two subjects they were - one obvious (Satanism - it doesn't get more evil than that), the other apparently Christian, but the character of the people supporting those "isms" was very, very similar.

We know that there are many other heresies; but, somehow, CARM found that Satanists and Universalists were far and away the worst, in terms of attacking Christians.

1 Tim. 4:1 (WEB) But the Spirit says expressly that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,

Rom. 16:17 (KJV) Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

I thought you were talking about Worthy Forums at first. I don't remember seeing Satanists there!

 

[David1701]

I thought you were talking about Worthy Forums at first. I don't remember seeing Satanists there!

No, it wasn't WCF.

There used to be an article on CARM about why Satanism and Universalism had been banned, but it appears to have been removed. There is still some info. there though. https://carm.org/Universalism

 

[David1701]

No I think everyone should be able to debate their beliefs whether they are orthodox or heterodox. Some need to learn how to defend against that position and by watching the discussions can learn how that is done. Just my 2 cents fwiw.

My personal opinion is it is banned in some places out of fear. If you stand on the truth, defend it from scripture then the heresy will be exposed for all to see.

I very much doubt if it's out of fear. Out of wanting to rid a forum of bile and vitriol, from false teachers - now that's more like it.

 

[civic]

I very much doubt if it's out of fear. Out of wanting to rid a forum of bile and vitriol, from false teachers - now that's more like it.

To be completely honest I’ve seen and I know you have to David both sides of the A/C debate call each other false teachers . So many times that can be mudslinging those who think differently than we do doctrinally.

And maybe there should be a criteria , a standard on what qualifies one as a false teacher . For example say we were to all agree on 10 essential doctrines that were salvific . Could one believe 9/10 and still be saved ? 8/10, 7/10, 6/19 .

Where is that line drawn ?

Could a universalist believe everything you do yet in that one area disagree with you and be saved ?

Just some food for thought .

And I’m not ecumenical at all personally but a forum is different than a church fellowship .

 

[David1701]

To be completely honest I’ve seen and I know you have to David both sides of the A/C debate call each other false teachers . So many times that can be mudslinging those who think differently than we do doctrinally.

And maybe there should be a criteria , a standard on what qualifies one as a false teacher . For example say we were to all agree on 10 essential doctrines that were salvific . Could one believe 9/10 and still be saved ? 8/10, 7/10, 6/19 .

Where is that line drawn ?

Could a universalist believe everything you do yet in that one area disagree with you and be saved ?

Just some food for thought .

And I’m not ecumenical at all personally but a forum is different than a church fellowship .

A Universalist could believe in Jesus (i.e. be saved), but be in serious error in the area of Universalism; however, it is still a divisive false teaching and I would expect to see him come under conviction about it and repent of it, sooner or later. I would not expect to see him continue in it for years, with no apparent conviction or repentance.