Understanding the The 1000 Year Millennium in Prophecy

[Ghada]

Changing sure words of doctrine and prophecy of Christ, into something symbolic, is a common way of unbelievers in the doctrine or prophecy as written, to make something more to their liking.

Whether it's making the thousand year reign of Christ, only as a thousand years, or hell is only a parable...

 

[Ghada]

Understanding the The 1000 Year Millennium in Prophecy​

Is understanding the 1000 years is a 1000 years, not as a thousand years.

Even as a millennium is a thousand years, not as a thousand years.

People can prophecy a reign of Christ as a thousand years, but it's not the prophecied reign of Christ, nor is it a millennium.

 

[TMSO]

2Pe 3:8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Which we know has nothing to do with the millennium, or time. Peter is explaining that God does not see things as we do. Yet He created the world in 7 days, and made it certain that it was 7 days. He could have snapped His fingers, or taken His time, but no... He did it in 7 days and told us. All we have is Revelation saying one thousand years. No reason to believe it is anything but a thousand years.

When God symbolizes a thousand years, He says it plainly as a thousand years.

Rev 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

When God means a thousand years, He plainly says a thousand, as well as the thousand years.

Yes. It is a thousand years. It can't be eternity or eternal because the verse says the time expires. Eternity/eternal doesn't expire.

When man does not want to believe His prophecy of a thousand, and the thousand years, then they speak of it as a thousand years. It's changing the Scripture by another means. They will quote the Scripture prophecying a thousand, and the thousand years, and then preach it only as a thousand years, not the thousand years prophesied.

2Pe 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

Symbolizing sure words of prophecy into something unsure, is how prophecy of Scripture is made into fables of man. It's also called being super-spiritual with Scripture, so that it's no earthly good.

2Pe 1:19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

As with sure doctrine of Christ, so also is His prophecy to be taken heed to and obeyed.

Mat 25:13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

God does not prophecy symbols to be taken heed to, nor more than He commands symbolic obedience.

I believe you may have mistaken me for one who doesn't believe in the millennium of 1000 years. I am a pretrib premillennialist.

 

[Mr GLee]

Which we know has nothing to do with the millennium, or time. Peter is explaining that God does not see things as we do. Yet He created the world in 7 days, and made it certain that it was 7 days. He could have snapped His fingers, or taken His time, but no... He did it in 7 days and told us. All we have is Revelation saying one thousand years. No reason to believe it is anything but a thousand years.

The Thousand years is a metaphor used in "parables". Parable comparing the temporal thing seen to the eternal spiritual things of Christ faith or caled a labor of His eternal love. (.the mixing recipe 2 Corinthians 4:18 )

Parables the signified understanding (comparing the temporal thing seen to the eternal spiritual things of Christ faith )

They teach how to walk by faith the unseen eternal things

The first times sets the standard .It does not become literal translation. . . destroying the need for comparing the spiritual to the spiritual or called faith (Christ) to faith

Psalm 90:4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as (not is) yesterday(not literally yesterday ) when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

As denotes a parable is in view

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

Peter 3:8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as(not is) a thousand years, and a thousand years as(not is) one day.

Signified God interpretation . called hidden manna in 2:17

Amil no literal thousand years. We can miraculously walk (understand) by faith the unseen eternal things of our Holy Father .

Revelation 1King James VersionThe Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 2:17King James Version He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name (Christian) written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

 

[TMSO]

The Thousand years is a metaphor used in "parables". Parable comparing the temporal thing seen to the eternal spiritual things of Christ faith or caled a labor of His eternal love. (.the mixing recipe 2 Corinthians 4:18 )

Parables the signified understanding (comparing the temporal thing seen to the eternal spiritual things of Christ faith )

They teach how to walk by faith the unseen eternal things

The first times sets the standard .It does not become literal translation. . . destroying the need for comparing the spiritual to the spiritual or called faith (Christ) to faith

Psalm 90:4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as (not is) yesterday(not literally yesterday ) when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

As denotes a parable is in view

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?
Peter 3:8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as(not is) a thousand years, and a thousand years as(not is) one day.

Signified God interpretation . called hidden manna in 2:17

Amil no literal thousand years. We can miraculously walk (understand) by faith the unseen eternal things of our Holy Father .

Revelation 1King James VersionThe Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 2:17King James Version He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name (Christian) written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Can you present ONE parable from Christ that uses the words "The thousand years"? Jesus is the only one who spoke in parables. Scripture is clear as to this, is clear as to why, and it was both judgement and mercy rolled up into one. Parables were allegories, stories that spoke to a hidden spiritual truth that could not be ascertained apart from God's teaching through the Holy Spirit.

Psalm 90 is not a parable. And David is speaking to the way God views the world. And no, David literally means yesterday in that simile/metaphor. It is the same thing that Peter meant when he said that to God, a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day. (Note how what Peter said cancels itself out.) Peter is reminding the church that God is eternal, and views time differently then we do. He is not saying God is completely unaware of time, or unable to participate in time. God is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. Omnipresent doesn't mean that God is everywhere at this moment, but everywhere through all time... right now. Hence, a thousand years is nothing to God, or a day is everything to God. This solely speaks to how God is not bound to time, while we are. Hence, to us it appears God is being lax in His promise, but to God, the length of time is nothing. He will fulfill His promise in HIS time, not ours. However, that means nothing if we don't have any kind of understanding how God views time.

Now, if you continue on with this no literal thousand years, when Revelation literally speaks to it, then one has to reconsider creation and that it was not a literal 7 days. Even though Genesis 1 is clear that the days were literal, with your new interpretation, one must reconsider that it is not, in fact, 7 literal days. In which case one must reconsider the existence of Adam and Eve, death, sin, etc.

 

[Ghada]

Which we know has nothing to do with the millennium

Other than the principle of passage of time to the eternal One and true God: to the Lord and His resurrected saints, the thousand years will be as but a day to them. And during His millennium, mortal men and women living and dying on earth under His rule, will experience it the same as today in natural passage of time.

, or time.Yet He created the world in 7 days, and made it certain that it was 7 days.

This is an excellent point. Once people start treating certain times in Scripture as only symbolic, then no times given in the historical record of the Bible are sure. All becomes just symbolism, allegory, parable, and fable, at the whims of the unbelieving readers.

Changing the thousand year government of Christ upon the earth, into thousands of years, is the same as allegorizing the 7 days of creation, into 7 millions of years.

Once sure times of Bible history and prophecy are allegorized into something unsure, then there are no boundaries to where and how long such allegory can be applied in the Bible.

Anyone that would symbolize the thousand reign of Christ, to only be as a thousand years, make themselves hypocrites to rebuke symbolizing the days of creation to be as millions of years. If they can do so in one place of the Bible, then they have no right to forbid it any place in the Bible.

This is how the Bible is wholly complete and called the one word of God. Once any words are changed by personal interpretation, then all words are open to change at one's own willby one's own faith alone.

2Pe 1:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Rev 22:7Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Blessed are they that read and believe and keep the words of the prophecy in tact: The thousand year reign of Christ is a thousand years. Inserting 'as' to the thousand years, only keeps the sayings of the prophecy unsure.

All we have is Revelation saying one thousand years. No reason to believe it is anything but a thousand years.

Other than a personal reason to change it into something else. The standard reason given, is to claim reigning with Christ upon the earth today by faith alone. Some then go on to claim it now forever. Which excludes how they live from being judged and condemned with the 2nd death.

Rev 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

In the same verse of Scripture, they are more than glad to change the time of the reign to today, and yet make sure the promise of the time stays the same. If the time of reigning is only as a thousand years, so that the time can be as today, then the second death is only as having no power over them claiming to have a part.

If the time is not sure, then neither is the reign, nor the second death having no power over them claiming to reign.

Yes. It is a thousand years. It can't be eternity or eternal because the verse says the time expires. Eternity/eternal doesn't expire.

Exactly again. Which shows that once one thing in Scripture is changed into something else, then more Scriptures must be changed accordingly.

In this case, once sure time is changed, then definitions themsevles must be changed: a thousand is only as a thousand, and so expired is as if expired. There is no sure time nor expiration date. It's the domino effect of unbelief applied to prophecy of Scripture, as well as doctrine.

It inserts mysticism into the Bible, where both sure doctrine and prophecy of Scripture are changed into mysteries, rather than grounded truth. It masks unbelief with 'spiritualized' intellectualism.

We see it in the revealed nature of an antichrist:

Dan 7:25And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Here we see that speaking against the true God, is not just about Him personally, but is also about the truth of His creation, such as changing certain times into something else. This also includes changing His laws, which are not just His commandments, but also of nature and grammar itself. When a certain time is changed, then also the definiton of expired must be changed...

But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

In the end, God's words stand true forever just as written, and all such efforts to play God through changing truth of Scripture into something less certain, will either end in the grave, or at His appearing in the air.

On earth, we all have the power of being created in God's image, which is to think, reason, imagine, plan, and act according to will. And so, like the angels that sinned, we also can corrupt that gift of power and will, by acting as gods with our own truth.

Gen(3:5} For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

We see here that acting as gods in manner of life, begins with thinking for ourselves as gods, with our own knowledge of what is true and false, good and evil. we can do so by changing the truth of God's words into something more to our own liking...

I believe you may have mistaken me for one who doesn't believe in the millennium of 1000 years. I am a pretrib premillennialist.

Not at all. I should have made it clear I agree with your challenge to antimillennialists. My argument is to support your challenge. And your responses add more weight to them.

 

[Hobie]

Understanding the The 1000 Year Millennium in Prophecy​

Is understanding the 1000 years is a 1000 years, not as a thousand years.

Even as a millennium is a thousand years, not as a thousand years.

People can prophecy a reign of Christ as a thousand years, but it's not the prophecied reign of Christ, nor is it a millennium.

What people say is not always what God says, need to go by His Word..

 

[Ghada]

What people say is not always what God says, need to go by His Word..

True. A thousand years spoken by God, is exactly a thousand years years written by man.

Some people treat God's words like smoke signals, whose meanings are not clearly exact, and must be interpreted subject to one's own personal understanding.

2Pe 1:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Some other people don't care what God says, and just teach and prophecy their own stuff more pleasing to themselves than to God.

Eph{2:8} For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

They live and teach by a faith of their own, and not by the faith of Jesus Christ given by God. Jesus' faith is in His own Scriptures and righteousness of God. Men need repent of their own sins and faith, to recieve and have the gift of faith toward God's word and true holiness by Jesus Christ.

 

[Mr GLee]

True. A thousand years spoken by God, is exactly a thousand years years written by man.

Some people treat God's words like smoke signals, whose meanings are not clearly exact, and must be interpreted subject to one's own personal understanding.

The Amil seems to work the best for reconciling the spiritual . . .to the same unseen eternal understanding of Christ . Also called faith as a labor of Christ love to faith the gospel

I would think .Thousand years is subject to his figurative or signified language which without parables Christ our teacher spoke not

He set the rule of interpretation as a induction to the book Revelation signified. Called hidden manna in 2:17. Manna meaning . . what is it?
The mysteries of faith the unseen things of God

1King James Version1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

The first three uses of the phrase "thousand years" is clearly revealed as a parable using metaphor. thousand years to represent a unknow. Christ desires we walk by faith the unseen spiritual things of Christ

No sign was given to wonder, wonder after. . as some do.

Believers have prophecy sealed with seven seals till the end of time

Satan the king of lying signs to wonder after is stil performing with all power to deceive.

Be careful how we hear who we say we do .

 

[Red Baker]

I'm only marking this to come back later and post......... so I will not forget.

 

[Ghada]

The Amil seems to work the best for reconciling the spiritual . . .to the same unseen eternal understanding of Christ .

It works most obviously to spiritualize the plain understanding of Christ's prophecy, into something else more symbolic than is written.

It's called making fables out of sure prophecy of Scripture.

2Pe 1:16For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2Pe 1:19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Sure prophecy of Christ is to be heeded and obeyed. Fables of men are only for unsure intellectual playthings.

I would think .Thousand years is subject to his figurative or signified language

A thousand years is not as a thousand years. It is a thousand years.

Changing the laws to one's own liking, includes changing the laws of nature, grammar, and word meanings.

People can do it in the imaginations of their own minds in this life, but playing as gods on earth ends in the grave.

He set the rule of interpretation as a induction to the book Revelation signified.

The rule of interpretation is set so as not to insert one's own ideas into Scripture of Christ, and then try to keep calling it prophecy of Christ.

2Pe 1:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Called hidden manna in 2:17. Manna meaning . . what is it?
The mysteries of faith the unseen things of God

Understanding mysteries spoken in Scripture, is only made known by all Scripture taken together.

Making mysteries out of sure Scripture, is only made by prophecying imagined things of one's own mind.

No sign was given to wonder, wonder after. . as some do.

Nor was any word 'as' or 'like' given to the thousand years in Rev 20, so as to wonder about.

2Th 2:9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Christ reveals here that such lying wonders made out of sure words of His prophecy, are at times not just innocent errors of interrpetation. But rather they are to decieve oneself and others about their own unrighteousness. Particularly pertaining to the Father's righteous judgement of our works without respect of persons.

Some Amils do not simple deny the thousand year reign of Christ upon the earth, but also go on to prophecy their own present reigning in heaven and over all the earth. And some of them do so to finally preach themselves as resurrected and eternally reigning in heaven, so that the second death by judgement of their works, cannot possibly include themselves.

Rev 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Good ol' OSAS by one's own faith alone is the unseen mystery and personal agenda of much false doctrine and prophecy,that is only taught as the Bible, but is not the Bible. It includes changing a thousand years, into only as a thousand years.

Changing the thosuand years prophesied in Rev 20, into only as a thosuand years, is to prophecy only as a Bible, not to prophecy the Bible.

 

[Red Baker]

Jesus Christ clearly spoke of two resurrections when He said, "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in their graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation" John 5:29.

The apostle Paul also spoke of these two resurrections when he said, "there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the unjust" in Acts 24:15. Thus both Jesus Christ and Paul spoke of two resurrections, the first being the resurrection of life for the just, and the second being the resurrection of damnation for the unjust. We also find it in Daniel, "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:1-2. This is a clear Bible teaching.

Revelation 20 also speaks of two resurrections, the 'first resurrection' of the saints, then after the 1000 years, the resurrection of damnation of the wicked. Those in the second resurrection will be deceived by Satan, will be gathered against God's City, will stand before the final great white throne judgment, will be judged by their works, will be cast into the lake of fire, and will suffer the second death .
Revelation 20:4-15

Hobie, I understand the teachings of the SDA which you are part of. I have spoken to Amo, concerning these things on Grace Centered who also is a SDA, and a friend our yours I believe. I hope you stay around and discuss these things with me more in depth, but my experience with you is generally you do not stay around once you are confronted with the truth, we shall see.

I preached on Revelation 20 once before a group of ministers in Martinsville Va. back in the eighties, but do not remember much of what I said to them, point by point, but it will be much of what I'm going to say moving forward in this thread. Not even sure if I used a outline, but preached from the scriptures based upon my understanding of them, which is mainly what I do anyway, I only saved long outlines that I have written in booklet forms.

Consider these briefs point:

1. You said: "Jesus Christ clearly spoke of two resurrections when He said, "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in their graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil unto the resurrection of damnation" John 5:29."
This scripture does not speak of two separate resurrections, a first and second, but one finals resurrection of the bodies of all , both the just and unjust. Read that scripture again and you must confess that this is so. Yet there is a first and second resurrection with the same context we find John 5:29~let us consider this truth. Remember~context is king, and will always drive the true interpretation for us, it never fails, especially so is this true in the NT, more so than from the Old testament prophets~where the New is the revelation of the old, and interpreted for us by the apostles of old~for the most part ~ maybe there are a few exceptions, but exceptions only proves the rule.

2. The context of Jesus' teaching, concerning the first and second resurrection taught in the word of God, but not so in most churches. Following the flow of his teachings carefully.

John 5:24-29~" Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

How clear is this? So clear that it should not even be question by any man, unless they have a biased pet doctrine to protect, which many do~which is very sad to see.

The Lord Jesus used double verily twice (to show it important and the likelihood of men not understanding this truth) in this short few scriptures as he reveals to us a truth concerning the first and second resurrection~showing us that one is a spiritual resurrection from being dead in trespsses and sin when spiritual life is imparted to the elect sinner, for whom Christ died for~who was dead toward the voice of God and without any spiritual strength to help himself from that state in which he is in by nature. This resurrection has been going on since Abel and was in operation during the times of Christ, and will be until Jesus comes again...... then another resurrection will take place, which is the bodies of all who ever lived in the body of sin and death. All will be resurrected at the last day when the last trump shall sound. The first resurrection was only for God's children who were given life freely by the grace, and power of Almighty God, who according to his own will and purpose imparted life to them by his life given voice.

To be continue...

 

[Red Baker]

3. Hobie, according to you and the SDA, the two resurrections are two different group being raised at the same time, or different times both still, it's bodily resurrection, when the scriptures teaches a much different truth. The first is a spiritual resurrection from being dead in sins to life in Jesus Christ sovereignly performed by the Spirit of God alone toward his elect.

4. Paul taught the first resurrection is a spiritual resurrection:

Ephesians 2:1~“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;”

The word “quickened” is the past tense of the verb quicken, which means to make alive. Quicken. To give or restore life to; to make alive; to vivify or revive; to animate. (OED).

The immediate context defines it as giving spiritual life to a person spiritually dead.

The operation of God under consideration is nothing less than spiritual life from the dead. Satan lied that Adam would not die; he did die; but men still lie about it (Gen 2:17; 3:4). Your first birth merely gave you a flesh (sinful) nature; you need a new nature (John 3:6).

Our flesh nature, which is dead in trespasses and sins, has no ability or desire toward God or His things (Gen 3:7-13; Ps 14:1-3; 51:5; 53:1-3; 58:3; Isaiah 26:10; Luke 16:31; John 3:3; 6:44-45; 8:43,47; Rom 3:9-18; 8:7-8; I Cor 2:14; 15:49; II Cor 4:3-4; Gal 5:17; Eph 2:2-3; 4:17-19; II Tim 2:25-26; Titus 3:3).

Faith or any good work is evidence of having been quickened, or brought from spiritual death to spiritual life; it cannot be the means for it (John 5:24; I John 3:14; 4:7; 5:1). The will causing regeneration is God’s will, not yours of any sort (John 1:13; 3:8; 5:21).

Quickening is also being born again … brought to life again (John 1:13; 3:3; I Pet 1:23). Quickening is being begotten … brought to life by God (I Pet 1:3; I Jn 5:1,18; Jas 1:18). Quickening is also called regeneration … to be generated again (Titus 3:5 cp Matt 19:28). Quickening is a creation by the power of God (Eph 2:10; 4:24; Prov 20:12; Phil 2:13).

 

[Mr GLee]

It works most obviously to spiritualize the plain understanding of Christ's prophecy, into something else more symbolic than is written.

It's called making fables out of sure prophecy of Scripture.

2Pe 1:16For we have not followedC, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

2Pe 1:19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

Sure prophecy of Christ is to be heeded and obeyed. Fables of men are only for unsure intellectual playthings.

Hi thanks for the reply.

Calling parables fables is standard of refusing not rightly divide.

It is important to follow the rules of interpretation.

Remember without parables (prophecy) Christ the teaching master spoke not. . hiding the eternal understanding of Christ's faith not seen. .

A work of Christ labor of love . "Let there be" and it was "God alone good." called the "law of faith", Christ working in us . (Romans 3:27)

Again without, not sometimes Christ spoke not. In that way its up to you to prove it is not a parable .

The historical or what you call plain the mixing recipe need or rightly divide the parable (2 Corihtinans 4:18)

The temporal historical must be mixed with the unseen eternal in order for us to receive the understanding of the mysteries of Christ's faith . Hid for those who seek after signs to wonder after.

2 Corinthians 4:18King James Version18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Again no mixing. . no gospel rest according to Hebrew 4

Hebrew 4 4 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

In that way knowing the bible has many mysteries of faith (the unseen things of God) Many rather than rightly divide the parable. They must make the mysteries of God into signs to wonder, wonder after after .

Satan the king of lying signs (his only voice)

2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

No sign was given to wonder after . Jesus calls those who do seek after a sign to wonder after a evil generation. The generation of out of sight out of mind .No faith coming from Christ labor of love

Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: (fulfilled)

Luke 11:29 And when the people were gathered thick together, he began to say, This is an evil generation: they seek a sign; and there shall no sign be given it, but the sign of Jonas the prophet.(fulfilled)

 

[Mr GLee]

Nor was any word 'as' or 'like' given to the thousand years in Rev 20, so as to wonder about.

The opening instruction sets the standard of interpretation called "signified" or called hidden manna in Revelation 2:17

Signified, using a sign the temporal dying historical seen in order to give the spiritual understanding hid from those who seek after signs to wonder, wonder after.as if it was prophecy .

God is not bringing new prophecy we have the perfect .

Revelation 1King James VersionThe Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

​

 

[Red Baker]

It works most obviously to spiritualize the plain understanding of Christ's prophecy, into something else more symbolic than is written.

It's called making fables out of sure prophecy of Scripture.

I'm not here to defend any man 's teaching that has come before in this thread ~ everyman stands or falls upon his own understanding, so whatever is written in this post is strictly between you and me.

So, by your statement above, do you reject applying a spiritual meaning to all scriptures, or most, or some. Could you answer this question, so I know exactly what you do believe and teach? Simple question, and I want a direct and simple answer please.

Would you accuse Christ of preaching fables with this quote of him:

Matthew 17:10-13~"And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."

Was Jesus understanding the prophecy that was written by the prophets, or, was he deceived, and deceiving others?

He applied the true sense to the words of the Prophets, which few are able to do. John the Baptist came with the same spirit and power that Elijah had when he was on the earth. Elijah will never come in person again until he comes at the last day with Christ and with all other saints that have ever lived in this world. (Another study for another day)

When reading Revelation we must use other scriptures to understand the highly symbolically language used by John in order to give the writings of the book Revelation its true biblical teaching, or else it would be impossible to come to the knowledge of the truth contained therein.

We approach all scriptures at face value, and from there, we seek its true meaning by using others scriptures which are very clear in its teaching. We let other scriptures interpret Revelation for us, we do not let Revelation interpret others clear cut scriptures.

A thousand years is not as a thousand years. It is a thousand years.

It all depends on how it is use~God's word is its own dictionary on how the Spirit uses His word.

Example: Bread~is it a liquid substance we eat, or is it used as the word of God? Something all of God's children need to grown thereby? It could be either, all depends on its context and the way it is used.

Israel: Is it Abraham's natural children, or the children of God's promises? It could be either, all depends on the context in which Israel is used in. So many more could be given to prove God's word is its own dictionary, for the most part.

When we study scripture we will find that God often uses certain number relationships to signify things. For example the number 3 for the purpose or will of God, as in the 3 times Christ prayed, the 3 times the sheet was let down and God said kill and eat, the 3 times Paul sought the Lord that the thorn in the flesh would be removed from him, the 3 times God came seeking fruit on the fig tree, or the 3 days till the Temple was raised up, etc., etc. Likewise, the number 12 representing the congregation, as in the 12 stars, the 12 tribes of Israel, the 12 Apostles, the 12 gates of the city, etc., or the number 7 and it's multiples, 70, 700, 7000 as the "Totality" of whatever is in view. And in this same way the number 10, 100, 1000 is likewise used in a spiritual sense to signifies the fullness of whatever is being spoken about. As an example, as you might say to your wife, "I'll love you for a thousand years". You're not literally putting a number on the time, rather, you're expressing the "fullness" of your Love for her. The 1000 is a symbolic length of time to indicate you'll love her from now till the fullness of time. Whatever that time may literally be, whether it be 10 years, 30 years 63 years, whatever it may be is symbolized by the use of the term a thousand years. And God uses this number in that way in scripture. We can see in the Psalms where the Lord God uses it to signify the fullness of hills:

Psalms 50:10-11

• "For Every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a Thousand hills.
  
  
• I know All the fowls of the mountains: and the wild beasts of the field are mine."

Is that to illustrate a literal number of hills hold his cattle? Does that mean that the cattle upon 1001 hills, or the cattle upon 1002 hills are not His? No, and so quite obviously the number thousand here is not a number to be understood literally. It's a number that God used here to illustrate the fullness. When we read the verse carefully we see "every" beast of the forest is His. Consider what God is doing here. All the cattle are his! God is using the term 1000 to show us this. But we have to have our eyes open to see it. Nothing is in the Bible by accident. The 1000 cattle indicates the fullness of cattle are His. All of them are the Lord's. Not just those on 1000 hills. Likewise, Isaiah chapter 7 speaks about the first advent of the Lord (verse 14), and continues:

Isaiah 7:23

• "And it shall come to pass in THAT DAY, that every place shall be, where there were a thousand vines at a thousand silverlings, it shall even be for briers and thorns. With arrows and with bows shall men come hither; because All the land shall become briers and thorns."

Are we to suppose that this is a literal number. Were there literally 1000 vines and literally 1000 silver coins, not 1001 or 999? When we look at the verse carefully we see that it is indicating that where there was the fullness of vines, there will be briers and thorns. The 1000 is not to alert us to a literal number of vines, or the literal number of 1000 silverlings (pieces of silver money), No, it is to illustrate where the fullness of vines once were, and where the fullness of money was, it is Changed to briers & thorns or worthlessness. In other words, it's become bankrupt! God is talking about a "full" destruction. That's what the 1000 illustrates. The fullness of what was there, is made briers and thorns. and that is made clear by God as it then says "because All the land shall become briers and thorns." You see,m that's what the number 1000 illustrated. the Fulness. Again when we look at a verse such as Psalms 105, we read,

Psalms 105:8

• "He hath remembered His covenant Forever, the word which He commanded to a Thousand generations. Which covenant He made with Abraham, and His oath unto Isaac;"

The LORD hath remembered His Covenant, how long? Forever! And the Word which He commanded to 1000 generations. Is This Literal? Is His Word only commanded to literally 1000 generations and not 1001 or 1002? Is His Word not commanded to the generations after 1000? Of course it is. God would not suddenly break His covenant in the 1001st generation of those who remain faithful to Him. One thousand has to be understood figuratively here, not literally. Again, look at the context of the verse. His Covenant is remembered forever. And His Word commanded to 1000 generations! Context tells us that this 1000 generations is "the Fullness or completeness" of all generations. That's how long it is remembered. Always! And it is remembered by the messenger of the Covenant Christ, send down from heaven. The number 1000 has been put there by God to show us a certain consistency in His use of this number symbolically.

Deuteronomy 7:9

• "know therefore that the Lord Thy God, He is God, the faithful God, which keepeth the Covenant and mercy with them that love Him and keep His commandments to a thousand generations".

In light of this scripture, how can anyone say a thousand is always understood literally? Do we keep His commandments to a thousand generations, or do we keep them always in Christ? The 1000 is Symbolic of the Fullness. In Revelations chapter 20 where the context is symbolic language, the 1000 years that Satan is bound is symbolic language also. It indicates the fullness of time. In other words, from the time that he is bound by Christ at the cross, to the time that he is loosed, is the fullness of time which God prescribes. Till the time when the fulness of the nations or gentiles be come in, and the Church be fulfilled. Whatever literal amount of time it may actually be is not for us to know.

Later....RB

 

[Mr GLee]

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In light of this scripture, how can anyone say a thousand is always understood literally? Do we keep His commandments to a thousand generations, or do we keep them always in Christ? The 1000 is Symbolic of the Fullness. In Revelations chapter 20 where the context is symbolic language, the 1000 years that Satan is bound is symbolic language also. It indicates the fullness of time. In other words, from the time that he is bound by Christ at the cross, to the time that he is loosed, is the fullness of time which God prescribes. Till the time when the fulness of the nations or gentiles be come in, and the Church be fulfilled. Whatever literal amount of time it may actually be is not for us to know.

Later....RB

Thanks I would offer. .

Twelve is symbolic of the fulness in parables .

Thousand is used as unknown (not revealed.)

Christ desires we walk by faith trusting the unseen gospel understanding . Christ is our confidence. He does not number days or people.

David found out the hard way.

God desires we walk by faith his power of love the unseen eternal.

Thousand is used a a metaphor in many parables in respect to whatever is in view not only time

The first three set the interpretation standard. It does not change to literal in the book with the most metaphors used in parables. . . the signified understanding of prophecy.

Psalm 90:4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told,yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

A few examples

Genesis 20:16 And unto Sarah he said, Behold, I have given thy brother a thousand pieces of silver: behold, he is to thee a covering of the eyes, unto all that are with thee, and with all other: thus she was reproved. . .(thousand, all the silver)

Genesis 24:60 And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou art our sister, be thou the mother of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.. . .(thousand, limitless, boundless)

Exodus 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. ...( thousand, all that keep )

Job 9:3If he will contend with him, he cannot answer him one of a thousand.. . .(thousand, unanswerable)

Job 33:23If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness:. . . ( thousand none are righteous"

Job 42:12So the Lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.. . . .( thousand all of the beast)

Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.. . .(thousand, all he hills)

Psalm 84:10 For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness. . . .(thousand as if a 24 hour day )

Psalm 119:72 The law of thy mouth is better unto me than thousands of gold and silver.. . . (thousand all the gold and silver)

Revelation 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.. . . .(Thousand, all the tribes the golden measure of faith (unseen eternal gold)

Revelation 21:15-17King James Version15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed (unknown) to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs.The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure (literal inch feet ) of a man, that is, of the angel.

12X12 = 144 ,000 a unknown

 

[Ghada]

The Lord Jesus used double verily twice (to show it important and the likelihood of men not understanding this truth) in this short few scriptures as he reveals to us a truth concerning the first and second resurrection~showing us that one is a spiritual resurrection from being dead in trespsses and sin when spiritual life is imparted to the elect sinner, for whom Christ died for~who was dead toward the voice of God and without any spiritual strength to help himself from that state in which he is in by nature.

The error is calling spiritual rebirth in Christ, a resurrection. Scripture only uses the word resurrection for the body.

The first resurrection of the saints at Jesus's return, will include all the righteous of God since Abel.

The next resurrection of the rest of the dead, is only after His thousand year reign upon earth expires.

That resurrection will be of all the wicked dead since Cain, as well as the just and unjust during His millennial reign, as well as all the rebels rising up after His reign upon earth ends.

This resurrection has been going on since Abel and was in operation during the times of Christ, and will be until Jesus comes again......

Scripture does not teach being born again before the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Righteous Abel was righteous in his works of faith:

Heb 11:4By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous,

1Jo 3:12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Jesus is the first and only man resurrected from the dead. There will not be anymore people resurrected from the dead, until He returns to recieve His saints unto Himself in the air.

All will be resurrected at the last day when the last trump shall sound.

1 Th 4:15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The last trump is with the Lord coming again to resurrect His saints on earth, and to meet Him in the air.

There is no trump sounded, when the rest of the dead rise to be judged by works at the GWT.

Scripture doesn't even say there is a sound made, when the first heaven and earth flee from the Lord's face on the throne. Much less a great shout and trump of God.

 

[Ghada]

The first resurrection was only for God's children who were given life freely by the grace, and power of Almighty God, who according to his own will and purpose imparted life to them by his life given voice.

So, if this includes you, then does it mean that you are also now reigning with Him? And shall reign with Him forever?

Rev 20:6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Many believers that preach being born again, as being the first resurrection from the dead, do so to delcare themselves immune by their own faith alone, from any judgment of their own works unto the second death.

As Jesus prophecies, He will bring judgment to His own people at His return to earth, to separate the tares from the wheat:

Mat 13:29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 24:45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.https://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/mat/24/48/s_953048
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming, And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken, The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The judgment of all believers that name Christ will be at His return. At His judgment seat we are either accepted or rejected of Him, as wheat or tares, by our good or bad works of service.

1 Thess{3:23} And whatsoever ye do, do [it] heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; {3:24} Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. {3:25} But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

2Co 5:9Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

 

[Alive]

So, if this includes you, then does it mean that you are also now reigning with Him? And shall reign with Him forever?

Yes…this is what I have come to believe. Since being born from above, I believe I am a co-worker with Him even now and into the eternal.