Understanding the 'Little Horn' power of Prophecy in Daniel.

[Hobie]

In the days of these kings is the Roman empire. There were 4 in sequence in the Dan 2, and they are repeated, so we really must stay dialed in to that. This set of visions does not start over each time; they are cumulative in meaning, right to the destruction of Israel at the same time as the success of Messiah and the new covenant in 9:24-27.

Daniel 9:24-27 is the prophecy timeline for when Christ came and died at the cross... https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/understanding-the-prophecy-of-70-weeks.1364/

 

[EarlyActs]

Daniel 9:24-27 is the prophecy timeline for when Christ came and died at the cross... https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/understanding-the-prophecy-of-70-weeks.1364/

Agreed except for 26-27; the normal meaning is that they are about the destruction of the temple and city. This means the destruction was seen as part of the 70 weeks, yet stretching the final to include that generation, and “the end” that would be like a destructive flood.

 

[EarlyActs]

See the thread here called Daniel 9 and my post #258

 

[Hobie]

Agreed except for 26-27; the normal meaning is that they are about the destruction of the temple and city. This means the destruction was seen as part of the 70 weeks, yet stretching the final to include that generation, and “the end” that would be like a destructive flood.

The destruction of Jerusalem by Titus in 70 AD fulfilled that with many legions.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings Hobie,

If one looks the little horns in Daniel 7 and 8 are the same historical entity.
Both are identified with the same symbol, a 'little horn'.
Both are described as being 'little' but becoming 'great' later on.
Both are described as persecuting powers.
Both have the same people as object of their persecution.
Both are described as blasphemous powers.
Both are described as intelligent.
Both extend to the time of the end.
Both are to be supernaturally destroyed.

The little horn power of Daniel 7 and the littler horn power of Daniel 8 are both clearly the same entity

I disagree. The two "little horns" have many similarities, but they arise out of different items. The little horn of Daniel 7 arises out of one of the ten subdivisions of the Roman Empire, and I agree with you that this speaks of the Papacy. But the little horn of Daniel 8 arises out of one of the four subdivisions of the Grecian Empire. I suggest that this is speaking about the gradual development of the Roman power in the East, and speaks more of a military power, while the Papacy developed many centuries later and was mainly in the West and was a religious power.

Also the title of the article you reference has the failed date "1844", part of the "Great Disappointment". I suggest the 2300 years is from BC 334-333 when the Goat slew the Ram to AD 1967 when the Jews recaptured Jerusalem.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Hobie,

If one looks the little horns in Daniel 7 and 8 are the same historical entity.

Another indication that the two little horns are different is the development and activity of the "King of the North" in Daniel 11:40-45.

Daniel 11:40–45 (KJV): 40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. 41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. 42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. 43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. 44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. 45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

This "King of the North" will be the latter day manifestation of the "Little Horn" of the East and will be a military power, while the Papacy will be the Little Horn of the West and will be a religious power. The invasion by the King of the North is parallel with Ezekiel 38 and Revelation 16:12-16 the Battle of Armageddon, and here The False Prophet corresponds to the Little Horn of the West, a religious power, and the Dragon corresponds to the Little Horn of the East, a military power. Both oppose Christ at his coming, and both will be destroyed in their turn, the Papacy some years after the King of the North is destroyed at the Battle of Armageddon.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[TATII]

I would offer Babylon is any assembly that has a false gospel .False apostles sent as false prophets Called the strange woman. Not the bride of Christ the freewoman Galatians 4).

Can you name any assembly that has a "true apostle?"

Tatwo...

 

[Mr GLee]

Can you name any assembly that has a "true apostle?"

Tatwo...

Hi I would offer.

The one that defines what a apostle is and what he performs. According to Christ's understanding to mankind, using the Bible as evidence. God has spoken

Change the meaning of one word it can change all the commandments giving over power of Christ to another another kind of teaching authority, false authority)as oral traditons of dying mankind called a law of the fathers.

We are warned of those that ignore the law of integrity of the word of God. . no adding or subtracting . Words have meaning attached that speak to the intent of the author .

Now days it all Greek foreign understandings If a male wants to be a female just say the words I am a lady etc.many word have lost the intended meaning. A wile of the evil one Its like the return to the Tower of Babel no understanding. . hid by God . .

Two misinterpreted words working together give one new meaning . Therefore violating the law below not to add or subtract .Again it takes away the authorship of Christ giving it over to the anti-christ . . false prophet sent a false apostle . . . Satan. As change in authority ,

Apostle (sent ones) working with Angelos (messages ) . how beautiful are their feet shod with the gospel of Christ .No need to wonder after what some call angels/ its messages prophecy of Christ not angels all around us.. The father of lying signs to wonder after

A evil generation seek after a sign believers have prophecy

The Greek word Apostle with Angelos (Both needed) has suffered much damage. It should of been given the English translation . "sent one" (apostle) or Hebrew sent one (Malak ) . in both testaments'. New meaning is added to give another invisible authority called angel a "fake word" sounds the same (different meaning) sent one mixed with messages (Angelos ) English translation = messenger

it simply opens the way for the use of patron saints venerating disembodied spirit gods . and sufferings life after death Limbo, purgatory a fake place . angels the fake word to Catholics Mysticism .bringing new revelations daily.
.
Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word (singular) which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it,(singular) that ye may keep the commandments (all) of the Lord your God which I command you.

Apostle = a messenger from God acting as an interpreter and declaring what is right. Not invisible creation called angels .
Angelos = meaning messages that are sent .angel used falsly 283 times a wile of the evil one. whose only voice is lying sign to wonder after

God send a strong delusion to them who wonder, suffer marvel, wonder . . suffer . . wonder .

 

[TATII]

God send a strong delusion to them who wonder, suffer marvel, wonder . . suffer . . wonder .

Ok Bro...

Can you name any assembly that has a "true apostle?"

Tatwo...

 

[Mr GLee]

Ok Bro...

Can you name any assembly that has a "true apostle?"

Tatwo...

God is still sending them .Man looks on the outside. A true apostle does not add to or subtract from the word of God .

 

[TATII]

God is still sending them .Man looks on the outside. A true apostle does not add to or subtract from the word of God .

Again...OK Bro...

I am not contending anything here with you Mr. GLee...I am simply asking you a very simple and honest question..."Can you name any assembly that has a "true apostle?"

That's all friend.

Tatwo...

 

[Hobie]

Greetings Hobie,

I disagree. The two "little horns" have many similarities, but they arise out of different items. The little horn of Daniel 7 arises out of one of the ten subdivisions of the Roman Empire, and I agree with you that this speaks of the Papacy. But the little horn of Daniel 8 arises out of one of the four subdivisions of the Grecian Empire. I suggest that this is speaking about the gradual development of the Roman power in the East, and speaks more of a military power, while the Papacy developed many centuries later and was mainly in the West and was a religious power.

Also the title of the article you reference has the failed date "1844", part of the "Great Disappointment". I suggest the 2300 years is from BC 334-333 when the Goat slew the Ram to AD 1967 when the Jews recaptured Jerusalem.

Kind regards
Trevor

Need to read your history and see where the Romans origin was from.. https://novoscriptorium.com/2019/04/09/the-greek-origin-of-the-romans-part-1-aborigines-pelasgians/

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Hobie,

Need to read your history and see where the Romans origin was from.

I am not speaking of the development of the Roman power in the West. I am speaking of the development of the Roman power in the East, arising out of one of the four subdivisions of the Grecian Empire. This is completely different to the little horn of the West which arises out of one of the 10 subdivisions of the Roman Empire, a different time period altogether. I agree that the little horn of Daniel 7 is the Papacy.

The Anchor Atlas of World History states on page 85 that in BC 133 Attalos III of Pegamon bequeathed his kingdom to the Romans; it became the Roman province of Asia in BC 129.

Who do you consider to be the King of the North of Daniel 11:40-45?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Hobie]

Greetings again Hobie,

I am not speaking of the development of the Roman power in the West. I am speaking of the development of the Roman power in the East, arising out of one of the four subdivisions of the Grecian Empire. This is completely different to the little horn of the West which arises out of one of the 10 subdivisions of the Roman Empire, a different time period altogether. I agree that the little horn of Daniel 7 is the Papacy.

The Anchor Atlas of World History states on page 85 that in BC 133 Attalos III of Pegamon bequeathed his kingdom to the Romans; it became the Roman province of Asia in BC 129.

Who do you consider to be the King of the North of Daniel 11:40-45?

Kind regards
Trevor

If you notice the progression of the text it goes past the 4 Greek divisions of the kingdoms from Alexander..
Daniel 8
22 Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Hobie,

If you notice the progression of the text it goes past the 4 Greek divisions of the kingdoms from Alexander.

Yes, it speaks of the development of the Roman power in Asia.

Who do you consider to be the King of the North of Daniel 11:40-45?

You have not responded to the above.
The reason why I ask is that Iconsider the power mentioned in the following is the same in both references and is not the Papacy:

Daniel 8:25 (KJV): And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Daniel 11:45 (KJV): And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Arch Stanton]

Can you name any assembly that has a "true apostle?"

Tatwo...

The Apostles laid hands on the next generation of 'disciples'. The Church has had apostolic succession through the Catholic/Orthodox Church.

 

[Hobie]

Greetings again Hobie,

Yes, it speaks of the development of the Roman power in Asia.

You have not responded to the above.
The reason why I ask is that Iconsider the power mentioned in the following is the same in both references and is not the Papacy:

Daniel 8:25 (KJV): And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Daniel 11:45 (KJV): And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

Kind regards
Trevor

The King of the North is admittedly a difficult one, but the key is it contests against the King of the South. Pagan Rome is it clearly at the start as it goes through its phases, but it basically is paganism. The King of the South is even harder, but look up what Egypt represented with its book of the dead and false teachings of the afterlife, and it begins to get clear..

 

[3 Resurrections]

Who do you consider to be the King of the North of Daniel 11:40-45?

Pompey the Great? He did, after all, "enter also into the glorious land" (Daniel 11:41) by putting Israel under tribute to Rome in 63 BC. And he did "come to his end, and none shall help him" when he was assassinated at sea by Ptolemy's orders.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Hobie,

The King of the North is admittedly a difficult one, but the key is it contests against the King of the South. Pagan Rome is it clearly at the start as it goes through its phases, but it basically is paganism. The King of the South is even harder, but look up what Egypt represented with its book of the dead and false teachings of the afterlife, and it begins to get clear..

I consider that the King of the North of Daniel 11:40-45 is parallel with Ezekiel 38 from the north which I identify with Russia, Joel 3, Zechariah 14 and Revelation 16:12-16 describing events surrounding Armageddon resulting in the conversion of a significant remnant of natural Israel as a prelude to the establishment of the Kingdom of God upon the earth, with Jesus sitting upon the Temple Throne of David in literal Jerusalem, ruling over converted Israel and the nations subjected and learning God's way Isaiah 2:1-4, Micah 4:1-8, Zechariah 14:16, Acts 3:19-21. No burnt and desolate earth in these prophecies.

Kind regards
Trevor