Twister: Caught In the Storm

[Arial]

The title of the OP is the title of a documentary I watched today on Netflix. It had in it the account of one survivor that brought up a very frightening scenario.

A massive tornado tore through Joplin, MO in May of 2011. A town at the center of the Bible Belt. One of the persons filmed was gay, but also claimed to be Christian. And that is not where this OP is going. That is in God's hands. Someone (I don't remember his name or position) had been predicting that the world would end on a certain day in May, which happened to be before the day of this tornado. Much of Joplin was talking about this, mostly in derision and it was quite the butt of many a joke when the world didn't end on that day.

But to get to the point. This one person, I will call him Dale since I never registered his name, was caught sheltering in a diner when the tornado hit. Everything was destroyed around him, but he survived. It was a harrowing experience and during it he decided that this was the rapture (pre-trib, premil, rapture). He saw people rising up off the ground and going into the sky and disappearing. When the storm passed, he stood up and looked around at a world without trees or houses, just rubble, and an eerily colored sky in the wake of the storm. He was all alone. The only man standing. He sincerely and genuinely thought the rapture had occurred and God didn't take him because he was gay. He thought this for a long time, because he said he walked for miles, looking for his mother, believing she had been taken in the rapture. He only realized it wasn't the rapture when he did find her.

I try to imagine what that would feel like to find myself in any scene of such destruction and think the rapture had occurred and I was left standing, or that it was occurring while all around me was shattered to pieces. I can't. But what are we doing to our children when we teach them something that has no biblical soundness to it?

What we have in probably the majority of our churches today is that pre-trib, premil, rapture teaching. It is taught with authority and as an indisputable fact. It is supported by selective Bible passages isolated from the full counsel of God. No other possibilities are considered or examined. It is promoted by those we should be able to trust, famous preachers, J MacArthur and Hal Lindsey among them. This has been going on since Darby first brought it into the open in the 1830's. All generations since have been inundated with it. Generation after generation who knows nothing else. And we can see from what happened to "Dale" in the tornado, how deeply it sinks into the psyche of a person, so that removing it is next to impossible. It is as though their very Christianity depends centrally on that one belief. It is a hill they are willing to die on.

And as I said, there is no sound biblical support for it. If any wish to dispute that and give their sound biblical support you have the floor. But please don't use a quoted scripture here and another there, removing them from the surrounding context and the full counsel of God. And by the full counsel of God I mean, make sure they don't contradict anything else.

 

[makesends]

There was a time when I was in my teens, when I was terrified the Lord would return and leave me behind, because my mind well knew I was not faithful to my commitment to Christ. I was not able to sleep till after midnight, every night. For some reason, even though I knew midnight was of no special significance, when the clock struck 12, it meant I had made it safe through another day, and a new day was beginning. And even then, I would count every stroke of the clock until it made no more sound, before I could rest.

 

[Arial]

There was a time when I was in my teens, when I was terrified the Lord would return and leave me behind, because my mind well knew I was not faithful to my commitment to Christ. I was not able to sleep till after midnight, every night. For some reason, even though I knew midnight was of no special significance, when the clock struck 12, it meant I had made it safe through another day, and a new day was beginning. And even then, I would count every stroke of the clock until it made no more sound, before I could rest.

It would also be terrifying to think of what would happen if all believers suddenly left the earth. And "Well I wouldn't be here." is kind of a selfish and cold way to look at it. When I used to believe that rapture thing, I was worried about my dogs being left alone in the house without me or food or water. There was a time I thought I probably wouldn't go in the rapture because I wasn't sinless enough. That didn't scare me but I figured I would fight til my last breath before I would take the mark.

It is a skewed teaching that pre-mil , dispensation, rapture stuff. And damaging I think, not to just persons, but Christianity.

 

[makesends]

It is a skewed teaching that pre-mil , dispensation, rapture stuff. And damaging I think, not to just persons, but Christianity.

Yep. And, it provides cannon fodder to those who want to say religion is harmful to young people, and some even say, harmful to self-esteem (as if self-esteem should be dependent on the intrinsic value of a human apart from God)

 

[TMSO]

The title of the OP is the title of a documentary I watched today on Netflix. It had in it the account of one survivor that brought up a very frightening scenario.

A massive tornado tore through Joplin, MO in May of 2011. A town at the center of the Bible Belt. One of the persons filmed was gay, but also claimed to be Christian. And that is not where this OP is going. That is in God's hands. Someone (I don't remember his name or position) had been predicting that the world would end on a certain day in May, which happened to be before the day of this tornado. Much of Joplin was talking about this, mostly in derision and it was quite the butt of many a joke when the world didn't end on that day.

But to get to the point. This one person, I will call him Dale since I never registered his name, was caught sheltering in a diner when the tornado hit. Everything was destroyed around him, but he survived. It was a harrowing experience and during it he decided that this was the rapture (pre-trib, premil, rapture). He saw people rising up off the ground and going into the sky and disappearing. When the storm passed, he stood up and looked around at a world without trees or houses, just rubble, and an eerily colored sky in the wake of the storm. He was all alone. The only man standing. He sincerely and genuinely thought the rapture had occurred and God didn't take him because he was gay. He thought this for a long time, because he said he walked for miles, looking for his mother, believing she had been taken in the rapture. He only realized it wasn't the rapture when he did find her.

I try to imagine what that would feel like to find myself in any scene of such destruction and think the rapture had occurred and I was left standing, or that it was occurring while all around me was shattered to pieces. I can't. But what are we doing to our children when we teach them something that has no biblical soundness to it?

What we have in probably the majority of our churches today is that pre-trib, premil, rapture teaching. It is taught with authority and as an indisputable fact. It is supported by selective Bible passages isolated from the full counsel of God. No other possibilities are considered or examined. It is promoted by those we should be able to trust, famous preachers, J MacArthur and Hal Lindsey among them. This has been going on since Darby first brought it into the open in the 1830's. All generations since have been inundated with it. Generation after generation who knows nothing else. And we can see from what happened to "Dale" in the tornado, how deeply it sinks into the psyche of a person, so that removing it is next to impossible. It is as though their very Christianity depends centrally on that one belief. It is a hill they are willing to die on.

And as I said, there is no sound biblical support for it. If any wish to dispute that and give their sound biblical support you have the floor. But please don't use a quoted scripture here and another there, removing them from the surrounding context and the full counsel of God. And by the full counsel of God I mean, make sure they don't contradict anything else.

You should do research. Darby isn't the first. Darby did not simply create beliefs out of thin air. There is historical precedent for a rapture going back to the 5th-8th centuries. The idea behind the rapture, and other ideas, is that the ECFs did not believe that God was going to pour out His great wrath on the church. We aren't talking about simple punishment or judgment, but God's unflinching wrath. It isn't meant to chastise, it isn't meant to punish, it is meant to destroy. The rapture, or the idea of a translation to another place has been around for a long time, even if it wasn't expounded upon. Granted, the ECFs leaned towards 3 1/2 years and not 7.

 

[Hazelelponi]

The title of the OP is the title of a documentary I watched today on Netflix. It had in it the account of one survivor that brought up a very frightening scenario.

A massive tornado tore through Joplin, MO in May of 2011. A town at the center of the Bible Belt. One of the persons filmed was gay, but also claimed to be Christian. And that is not where this OP is going. That is in God's hands. Someone (I don't remember his name or position) had been predicting that the world would end on a certain day in May, which happened to be before the day of this tornado. Much of Joplin was talking about this, mostly in derision and it was quite the butt of many a joke when the world didn't end on that day.

But to get to the point. This one person, I will call him Dale since I never registered his name, was caught sheltering in a diner when the tornado hit. Everything was destroyed around him, but he survived. It was a harrowing experience and during it he decided that this was the rapture (pre-trib, premil, rapture). He saw people rising up off the ground and going into the sky and disappearing. When the storm passed, he stood up and looked around at a world without trees or houses, just rubble, and an eerily colored sky in the wake of the storm. He was all alone. The only man standing. He sincerely and genuinely thought the rapture had occurred and God didn't take him because he was gay. He thought this for a long time, because he said he walked for miles, looking for his mother, believing she had been taken in the rapture. He only realized it wasn't the rapture when he did find her.

I try to imagine what that would feel like to find myself in any scene of such destruction and think the rapture had occurred and I was left standing, or that it was occurring while all around me was shattered to pieces. I can't. But what are we doing to our children when we teach them something that has no biblical soundness to it?

What we have in probably the majority of our churches today is that pre-trib, premil, rapture teaching. It is taught with authority and as an indisputable fact. It is supported by selective Bible passages isolated from the full counsel of God. No other possibilities are considered or examined. It is promoted by those we should be able to trust, famous preachers, J MacArthur and Hal Lindsey among them. This has been going on since Darby first brought it into the open in the 1830's. All generations since have been inundated with it. Generation after generation who knows nothing else. And we can see from what happened to "Dale" in the tornado, how deeply it sinks into the psyche of a person, so that removing it is next to impossible. It is as though their very Christianity depends centrally on that one belief. It is a hill they are willing to die on.

And as I said, there is no sound biblical support for it. If any wish to dispute that and give their sound biblical support you have the floor. But please don't use a quoted scripture here and another there, removing them from the surrounding context and the full counsel of God. And by the full counsel of God I mean, make sure they don't contradict anything else.

I think you're right, but there's something else needing considered outside of strict correctness of Scriptural interpretations.

Have you noticed the when, of when people are drawn to prophecy itself? It's always when we need God the most on a personal level, I have noticed. It's not when things are fine spiritually, it's when we desperately need Him in Spirit and in Truth.

The young man was in a panic - the situation itself heart stopping - and he had an overwhelming feeling that he wasn't ready to stand in God's presence, so overwhelming he thought himself for a time completely unsaved.

We can argue the prophecy itself is wrong but I am not sure that God doesn't still use even what's wrong to let us know it's Him we need.

That young man got a wake up call, let's pray He uses it so that He can stand when His time comes. The one thing we should all be sure of is that we can stand, because as my husband likes to say, the end of the world is every day for someone.

 

[Arial]

You should do research. Darby isn't the first. Darby did not simply create beliefs out of thin air. There is historical precedent for a rapture going back to the 5th-8th centuries.

For one thing I did not say he was the first did I? I said."Since Darby first brought it into the open." For another, the assumption that you disagreeing with me is indicative of me not having done any research is quite a leap.

Granted, the ECFs leaned towards 3 1/2 years and not 7

That was a debate over the length of the "tribulation" not about a pre-trib rapture. And it is wrong to presume that the ECF's are always right simply because they were closer in time to the writers of the NT.

But here is some information for you.
davidruybalid.wordpress.com/2023/02/16/the-rapture-doctrine-its-origin-and-evolution-in-christian-theology/

 

[Eleanor]

You should do research. Darby isn't the first. Darby did not simply create beliefs out of thin air. There is historical precedent for a rapture going back to the 5th-8th centuries. The idea behind the rapture, and other ideas, is that the ECFs did not believe that God was going to pour out His great wrath on the church. We aren't talking about simple punishment or judgment, but God's unflinching wrath. It isn't meant to chastise, it isn't meant to punish, it is meant to destroy. The rapture, or the idea of a translation to another place has been around for a long time, even if it wasn't expounded upon. Granted, the ECFs leaned towards 3 1/2 years and not 7.

It's really quite simple. . .apostolic teaching is that the second coming, resurrection and rapture occur at the end of time (1 Th 4:16-17).

Where do we find 3 1/2 or 7 in the ECF's?