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TULIP Explained

I am explaining what the doctrines of the tulip ARE. If someone disagrees with them that does not mean that is not what they are. Those who do know what they are because they have studied them and mostly agree with them as they find the Bible to support them, may have differing insights or angles or different or better ways of expressing these doctrines.
I never said they did.....I said that is “YOU” explaining what the doctrines of TULP are......that was your assumption of what I meant.....which is not what I meant.

Anyway, I am leaving this forum...so you won’t have me around much longer....
 
Anyway, I am leaving this forum...so you won’t have me around much longer....
That is up to you. No one is asking you to leave. I don't think anyone wants you to. So why are you leaving? Maybe the issue can be resolved. A PM to staff members would be, all of us, the best way to do that so as not to derail the thread.
 
That is up to you. No one is asking you to leave. I don't think anyone wants you to. So why are you leaving? Maybe the issue can be resolved. A PM to staff members would be, all of us, the best way to do that so as not to derail the thread.
Can you explain what this means...found it online.

The idea of limited atonement combines this idea with the idea of God’s sovereignty. Basically this becomes a question of who Jesus paid a price for. Was it for all mankind? Or was it only for the “elect” who God has chosen to save? Most Calvinists believe that none of Jesus’ suffering was useless, so his atonement was only for those people that will be saved. They also ensure that it is not because he was unable to die for all, but that the atonement is only meant for those intended to be saved.

Do you believe that Jesus died for all mankind or only those he chooses to save?..
 
Can you explain what this means...found it online.

The idea of limited atonement combines this idea with the idea of God’s sovereignty. Basically this becomes a question of who Jesus paid a price for. Was it for all mankind? Or was it only for the “elect” who God has chosen to save? Most Calvinists believe that none of Jesus’ suffering was useless, so his atonement was only for those people that will be saved. They also ensure that it is not because he was unable to die for all, but that the atonement is only meant for those intended to be saved.

Do you believe that Jesus died for all mankind or only those he chooses to save?..
Only for those God gave Him is how the Bible words it in a number of places. So the Father chose them and those are the only ones that Jesus went to the cross for.

If He died for all mankind, then all would be saved.
 
Only for those God gave Him is how the Bible words it in a number of places. So the Father chose them and those are the only ones that Jesus went to the cross for.

If He died for all mankind, then all would be saved.
Did he die for the sins of the whole world?

Why aren’t all saved?
 
Can you explain what this means...found it online.

The idea of limited atonement combines this idea with the idea of God’s sovereignty. Basically this becomes a question of who Jesus paid a price for. Was it for all mankind? Or was it only for the “elect” who God has chosen to save? Most Calvinists believe that none of Jesus’ suffering was useless, so his atonement was only for those people that will be saved. They also ensure that it is not because he was unable to die for all, but that the atonement is only meant for those intended to be saved.

Do you believe that Jesus died for all mankind or only those he chooses to save?..
The atonement was effectual (i.e. Jesus actually redeemed, atoned for and propitiated the Father for those for whom he died), which means that he died for his elect, and his elect only.
 
Did he die for the sins of the whole world?
Yes; when "whole world" means "all people groups", not "every individual who will ever live".
 
The atonement was effectual (i.e. Jesus actually redeemed, atoned for and propitiated the Father for those for whom he died), which means that he died for his elect, and his elect only.
Can you show me scripture where Jesus only died for his elect?

Does it actually say this ..( your words) in scripture...are they God’s words?

@David1701 .

1 John 2:2​


“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
 
Am I on topic @Arial ....this is interesting scripture...or should I go elsewhere with this?

Matthew 7:13-14 KJV
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

This scripture sounds like he’s talking about the rebirth?
 
Did he die for the sins of the whole world?
He died for the sins of the whole world in two senses.
1.The whole world meaning all parts of the world, nations, ethnic groups, rich, poor etc. but not each individual in the world.
2. In a future event---the restoration of all things at Christ's second coming and the believer's glorification, it will be every individual in the world because only the redeemed will be there.
Why aren’t all saved?
That is in the mind and intent of God. I can only say that no one would be saved, all are condemned by sin, unless God in His mercy and for His glory saved some through the atoning work of Christ.
 
Ezekiel 18:23 - Do I have any pleasure at all that the wicked should die?” says the Lord God, “and not that he should turn from his ways and live?

Who else would Jesus die for? Only for those who believe on Him and whom God has Chosen. John 3:16 says it all.
 
Am I on topic @Arial ....this is interesting scripture...or should I go elsewhere with this?

Matthew 7:13-14 KJV
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

This scripture sounds like he’s talking about the rebirth?
He is specifically talking about He is the way, the only way, the truth, the only way to truth, the life, the only way to life. He spoke of the new birth in John 3.

The apostles further clarified and expounded on what the new birth is and what it does and why we need it, after His ascension. Though it is often phrased by them in terms of being dead in sins and being quickened to life by Christ. Reborn in Christ as we are naturally born in Adam. The evidence of this rebirth is faith (believing) in the person and work of Jesus.
 
Am I on topic @Arial ....this is interesting scripture...or should I go elsewhere with this?

Matthew 7:13-14 KJV
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

This scripture sounds like he’s talking about the rebirth?
I see this scripture saying....those who are unregenerate are going through the wide gate and broad is the way , that leadeth to destruction, going their own way without God in their lives...on the road to hell.

The narrow path..leads to eternal life...a Born Again is on and will stay on that narrow path..they are kept on that narrow path ,by the power that is within them...the Holy Spirit ..imo/ belief.
Am I on topic @Arial ....this is interesting scripture...or should I go elsewhere with this?

Matthew 7:13-14 KJV
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

This scripture sounds like he’s talking about the rebirth?
 
I see this scripture saying....those who are unregenerate are going through the wide gate and broad is the way , that leadeth to destruction, going their own way without God in their lives...on the road to hell.
Though it is true that the unregenerate are on the broad way and the regenerate are on the narrow way, that is not precisely what Jesus is pointing out in that passage. It is pointing out that many try to reach God through many different ways. By their good works, even by believing that He doesn't exist, going to church, through false religions etc. Jesus is saying the way to God is not that broad, it is very narrow, and belief in who He is is the only way. "No one comes to the Father except by Me."

And He was speaking to the Jews who thought being a Jew (descendants of Abraham, under the Law) was the way. That is why He said what He said and why He said it to them.
 
Got explains it well.

Why did God make salvation such a narrow path?​

translatenarrow path
audio

ANSWER

In Matthew 7:13–14, Jesus said, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." This passage causes some to question the goodness of God. After all, if He really wants to save everyone, why didn’t He make it easier to be saved? Why doesn’t He simply let everyone into heaven?

When we read the word narrow, we tend to associate it with prejudicial selection. It sounds as though God has rated us all on some scale of acceptability and only allows a select few to enter His presence. However, a few verses earlier, Jesus had told the same audience, "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened" (Matthew 7:7–8). Jesus made it clear: the path to eternal life is open to everyone who asks.

However, the gate to heaven is “narrow” in the sense of having a particular requirement for entrance—faith in Jesus Christ. Salvation is found only in the Person of Jesus Christ; He is the only way (John 14:6). The “wide” gate is non-exclusive; it allows for human effort and all other of the world’s religions.

Jesus says that the narrow gate leads to a “hard” road, one that will take us through hardships and difficult decisions. Following Jesus requires crucifying our flesh (Galatians 2:20; 5:24; Romans 6:2), living by faith (Romans 1:17; 2 Corinthians 5:7; Hebrews 10:38), enduring trials with Christlike patience (James 1:2–3, 12; 1 Peter 1:6), and living a lifestyle separate from the world (James 1:27; Romans 12:1–2). When faced with the choice between a narrow, bumpy road and a wide, paved highway, most of us choose the easier road. Human nature gravitates toward comfort and pleasure. When faced with the reality of denying themselves to follow Jesus, most people turn away (John 6:66). Jesus never sugar-coated the truth, and the truth is that not many people are willing to pay the price to follow Him.

God offers salvation to everyone who accepts it (John 1:12; 3:16-18; Romans 10:9; 1 John 2:2). But it is on His terms. We must come the way He has provided. We cannot create our own paths or come to a holy God based on our own efforts. Compared to His righteousness, we are all filthy (Isaiah 64:6; Romans 3:10). God cannot simply excuse or overlook our sin. He is merciful, but He is also just. Justice requires that sin be paid for. At great cost to Himself, He paid that price (Isaiah 53:5; 1 John 3:1, 16; Psalm 51:7). Without the blood of Jesus covering our sin, we stand guilty before the God we rejected (Romans 1:20).

The way to God was completely closed, and sin was the roadblock (Romans 5:12). No one deserves a second chance. We all deserve to stay on the "wide road that leads to destruction." But God loved us enough to provide the path to eternal life anyway (Romans 5:6–8). However, He also knows that in our self-centered, sin-saturated world there are not many who will desire Him enough to come to Him on His terms (John 6:44, 65; Romans 3:11; Jeremiah 29:13). Satan has paved the highway to hell with fleshly temptations, worldly attractions, and moral compromises. Most people allow their passions and desires to dictate the course of their lives. They choose temporary, earthly pleasure over the self-sacrifice required in following Jesus (Mark 8:34; Luke 9:23; Matthew 10:37). The narrow gate is ignored. Most people would rather create their own religions and design their own gods. So it was with sorrow, not discrimination, that Jesus declared
 
Can you show me scripture where Jesus only died for his elect?

Does it actually say this ..( your words) in scripture...are they God’s words?

@David1701 .

1 John 2:2​


“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
"Whole world" here means all people groups, not every individual.

Rev. 5:9 (EMTV) And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; because You were slain, and You redeemed us to God by Your blood, out of every tribe and language and people and nation;

John 10 :14-16
(WEB)
14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own, and I’m known by my own;
15 even as the Father knows me, and I know the Father. I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd.

Eph. 5:24-27 (EMTV)
24 But just as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your own wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,
26 in order that He might sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing of water by the word,
27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and blameless.

John 17:9 (EMTV) I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
John 17:20
(EMTV) "I am not praying for these alone, but also for those who believe in Me through their word;

2 Tim. 2:10 (KJV) Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
 
"Whole world" here means all people groups, not every individual.

Rev. 5:9 (EMTV) And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; because You were slain, and You redeemed us to God by Your blood, out of every tribe and language and people and nation;

John 10 :14-16
(WEB)
14 I am the good shepherd. I know my own, and I’m known by my own;
15 even as the Father knows me, and I know the Father. I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will hear my voice. They will become one flock with one shepherd.

Eph. 5:24-27 (EMTV)
24 But just as the church is subject to Christ, so also the wives be to their own husbands in everything.
25 Husbands, love your own wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her,
26 in order that He might sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing of water by the word,
27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and blameless.

John 17:9 (EMTV) I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
John 17:20
(EMTV) "I am not praying for these alone, but also for those who believe in Me through their word;

2 Tim. 2:10 (KJV) Therefore I endure all things for the elect’s sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
So, not every individual...does that mean he made some for destruction.?

Or do they make their own selves for destruction?

And, where will they end up?
 
So, not every individual...does that mean he made some for destruction.?

Or do they make their own selves for destruction?

And, where will they end up?
After Adam (the lump of clay) had sinned, God made some of his descendants (vessels) for dishonour and never-ending, ongoing destruction. The others (equally deserving of hell (Gehenna)), he made for glory. The ones made for glory (from Jews and Gentiles), he calls effectually to Jesus.

Rom. 9:18-24 (VW)
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will?
20 No, rather, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, Why have you made me like this?
21 Does not the potter have authority over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, determining to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath rendered fit unto destruction,

23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand unto glory,
24 whom He also called, not only of us Jews, but also of the Gentiles?

Where do the vessels of wrath go?

Mark 9:43-48 (VW)
43 If your hand makes you stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to Gehenna, into the fire that shall never be quenched;
44 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if your foot makes you stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into Gehenna, into the fire that shall never be quenched;
46 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if your eye makes you stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into the fire of Gehenna;
48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
 
After Adam (the lump of clay) had sinned, God made some of his descendants (vessels) for dishonour and never-ending, ongoing destruction.
Wow!!...really...that sounds like controlling a robot..?
The others (equally deserving of hell (Gehenna)), he made for glory. The ones made for glory (from Jews and Gentiles), he calls effectually to Jesus.
Those who are Born Again....for his purpose and his plan ..that I can understand....I just can’t get my head round those he made for destruction......oh well, further study for me on that subject..thanks David.
Rom. 9:18-24 (VW)
18 Therefore He has mercy on whom He wills, and whom He wills He hardens.
19 You will say to me then, Why does He yet find fault? For who has resisted His will?
20 No, rather, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, Why have you made me like this?
21 Does not the potter have authority over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel unto honour and another unto dishonour?
22 What if God, determining to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath rendered fit unto destruction,

23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand unto glory,
24 whom He also called, not only of us Jews, but also of the Gentiles?


Where do the vessels of wrath go?

Mark 9:43-48 (VW)
43 If your hand makes you stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to Gehenna, into the fire that shall never be quenched;
44 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

45 And if your foot makes you stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life lame, rather than having two feet, to be cast into Gehenna, into the fire that shall never be quenched;
46 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

47 And if your eye makes you stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into the fire of Gehenna;
48 where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.
 
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