Total Depravity. Was it a misnomer?

[GeneZ]

All immortal human spirits depart their bodies when their bodies die. Those of the born again go to be with Jesus. The damned go elsewhere, until the resurrection of all the dead for the Final Judgment of the sheep and the goats at the end of time, when all immortal human spirits are re-united with their bodies (have their "tents" again, 2 Co 5:2-3) and sentenced to their eternal destiny.

The immortal spirit of Jesus' humanity likewise departed his body, only to be rejoined with it at his resurrection, the firstfruits of the resurrection of mankind, when all will be rejoined with their immortal spirits.

Jesus is God-man for all eternity, the church being the bride of the incarnate (enfleshed) God.

For the same reason he has a human body. One is not human without body, soul and immortal human spirit.
One would simply be animal.

This is not orthodox Christianity.

2 Corinthians 5:2-3

Do you see the word "spirit" anywhere?

"Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, ​

because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked."​

You are doing the same thing Eve did.
You are adding to the Word.

The word "spirit" is not even remotely mentioned in 2 Corinthians 5:2-3.

Eleanor? How long can you drag on with your technique?
Its going to soon become apparent to all that you just make stuff up.

This is not orthodox Christianity.

We could easily see that without you letting us know.
So? Was that your repentance?


grace and peace ........................

 

[GeneZ]

Spiritual death is not death of the immortal human spirit.

Spiritual death is not about death of the immortal human spirit.

Its the absence that causes spiritual death.

Regeneration gives that person a human spirit.

The Spirit begets "spirit."

John 3:5-8

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water
and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of
the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not
marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows
where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it
comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

 

[makesends]

Satan's lawyer made that same kind of appeal after Jesus quoted Scripture in the Temptation.....

All it does to take your position, is to admit you have no idea what it says.

I pretty much ALWAYS have an idea what it says. But I try to be skeptical of myself.

 

[GeneZ]

I pretty much ALWAYS have an idea what it says. But I try to be skeptical of myself.

I pray you find a good pastor who teaches from the original languages. There are a few to be found.

Add to that.. too much of the ambiguity we suffer with today happens when we are left at the mercy of rather generic
English translations.... So much can be lost that way.

God raises up a few such teachers who study and will teach from the original languages.
The Lord always knew some in His church would want it.

"Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, ​

because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." James 3:1​

If the Holy Spirit working in us had His will done? Only a few good teachers would be found.

Instead, this is what we find today.

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great ​

number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3​

​

​

grace and peace ..............

 

[makesends]

I pray you find a good pastor who teaches from the original languages. There are a few to be found.

Add to that.. too much of the ambiguity we suffer with today happens when we are left at the mercy of rather generic
English translations.... So much can be lost that way.

God raises up a few such teachers who study and will teach from the original languages.
The Lord always knew some in His church would want it.

"Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, ​

because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." James 3:1​

If the Holy Spirit working in us had His will done? Only a few good teachers would be found.

Instead, this is what we find today.

"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. ​

Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great ​

number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3​

​

​

grace and peace ..............

Ha! FWIW, if you get to know me, you will not often find me ambiguous. There are many things I admit to not knowing, and very little that I will claim to know all about, but you won't often find me equivocating nor agreeing with both sides of an argument. There are more than one here that in the little time I've been a contributor, I have held to account for their explanations of teachings or beliefs with which I am in complete agreement.

And unless I grow weary of dealing with you, I will hold your feet to the fire too!

I said I am skeptical of myself —that is true. But I am more skeptical of those who seem to think themselves the purveyors of God's truth.

 

[GeneZ]

Ha! FWIW, if you get to know me, you will not often find me ambiguous. There are many things I admit to not knowing, and very little that I will claim to know all about, but you won't often find me equivocating nor agreeing with both sides of an argument. There are more than one here that in the little time I've been a contributor, I have held to account for their explanations of teachings or beliefs with which I am in complete agreement.

And unless I grow weary of dealing with you, I will hold your feet to the fire too!

I said I am skeptical of myself —that is true. But I am more skeptical of those who seem to think themselves the purveyors of God's truth.

Do as you wish...

But, did you really mean you will hold my feet to the fire?

Literally?

 

[makesends]

Do as you wish...

But, did you really mean you will hold my feet to the fire?

Literally?

Probably not, unless you are that same GenZ sounding named fellow on that other site. Then I might.

 

[Eleanor]

Spiritual death is not about death of the immortal human spirit.

Agreed, for the immortal human spirit does not die, it's immortal.

Its the absence that causes spiritual death.

According to the NT, you have all mankind born with dead bodies.

"The body without the spirit is dead." (Jas 2:26).

Regeneration gives that person a human spirit.
The Spirit begets "spirit."
John 3:5-8
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water
and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of
the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Precisely, the new birth, which is God's divine eternal life re-imparted to the immortal human spirit, is spiritual life, not natural life.

Do not
marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows
where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it
comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The re-impartation of God's divine eternal life within the immortal human spirit is by sovereign choice and act of God, which choice is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:7-8).

 

[Eleanor]

2 Corinthians 5:2-3

Do you see the word "spirit" anywhere?

Indeed I do, and that you don't explains a lot.

 

[GeneZ]

According to the NT, you have all mankind born with dead bodies.

https://www.bibleref.com/James/2/James-2-26.html

Here James completes his case for an often-misunderstood teaching. His point is that genuine faith in God naturally leads the believer to participate in good works. This isn't a particularly radical idea, even from a non-spiritual point of view. If we actually believe that God is truly God and that He has saved us through our faith in Christ, why would we not obey Him? Our deeds don't earn our salvation, but what we do proves whether or not we really have saving faith.

James drives the point home here with one last illustration. James makes a clever word-play here, similar to one Jesus uses in John chapter 3. James claims that a faith without works is just as dead as a body without pneumatos. This Greek term can mean "wind," which is a euphemism for breathing, or it can mean "spirit," or even capital-S-"Spirit," meaning the Holy Spirit. The wordplay is key to seeing how serious James is about the implications of this teaching. A body without breath is dead. A person without "the Spirit" is spiritually dead. James ties together a lack of breath, a lack of spirit, and the presence of death with the concept of a works-less faith.

Bodies which don't breathe are dead. In the same way a so-called-"faith"—whether in the form of religion, or family identity, or intellectual knowledge—that is not accompanied by good works is not a living thing. It's dead. The spiritual implications are clear; works-less faith is not saving faith.

Good works can take many forms. In this chapter, James emphasized the good works of Christians loving each other as we love ourselves. He specifically emphasized meeting each other's physical needs. He has also stressed obedience to God.

James's teaching, for all the debate it generates, can be summarized briefly: We are saved by faith, and saving faith produces good works. Those who lack works prove that they lack saving faith.

 

[GeneZ]

Probably not, unless you are that same GenZ sounding named fellow on that other site. Then I might.

Sorry to see it come to this so fast. But some are always learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Knowledge of the Truth is when the Holy Spirit causes us (grace) to know truth is what it is.. Stubbornness and stupidity is its counterfeit..
Some, never find that out. They simply doubt everything. I hope you are not that severe.

 

[GeneZ]

Indeed I do, and that you don't explains a lot.

Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling,
because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked.

For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven,
if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked.

If you see the word "spirit" in there?

I suggest you stop hitting the spirits.


Arena Wine and Spirits... Your church?

 

[Eleanor]

https://www.bibleref.com/James/2/James-2-26.html

Here James completes his case for an often-misunderstood teaching. His point is that genuine faith in God naturally leads the believer to participate in good works. This isn't a particularly radical idea, even from a non-spiritual point of view. If we actually believe that God is truly God and that He has saved us through our faith in Christ, why would we not obey Him? Our deeds don't earn our salvation, but what we do proves whether or not we really have saving faith.

James drives the point home here with one last illustration. James makes a clever word-play here, similar to one Jesus uses in John chapter 3. James claims that a faith without works is just as dead as a body without pneumatos. This Greek term can mean "wind," which is a euphemism for breathing, or it can mean "spirit," or even capital-S-"Spirit," meaning the Holy Spirit. The wordplay is key to seeing how serious James is about the implications of this teaching. A body without breath is dead. A person without "the Spirit" is spiritually dead.

There is no warrant, other than one's personal theology, for laboring the analogy to make it other than what it clearly and simply states.

 

[GeneZ]

There is no warrant, other than one's personal theology, for laboring the analogy to make it other than what it clearly and simply states.

Eleanore... you are receiving the honor of the very first Ignore recipient in this new forum.

Enjoy your game playing..... without me.

 

[Eleanor]

Eleanore... you are receiving the honor of the very first Ignore recipient in this new forum.

Enjoy your game playing..... without me.

Which is a testimony regarding whom?

 

[GeneZ]

I pretty much ALWAYS have an idea what it says. But I try to be skeptical of myself.

Ironically.. I have no doubt that you do.

Do you think God intended his Word to be that way?

 

[GeneZ]

Ha! FWIW, if you get to know me, you will not often find me ambiguous. There are many things I admit to not knowing, and very little that I will claim to know all about, but you won't often find me equivocating nor agreeing with both sides of an argument. There are more than one here that in the little time I've been a contributor, I have held to account for their explanations of teachings or beliefs with which I am in complete agreement.

And unless I grow weary of dealing with you, I will hold your feet to the fire too!

I said I am skeptical of myself —that is true. But I am more skeptical of those who seem to think themselves the purveyors of God's truth.

Meaning... You like taking the position of being the devil's advocate?

 

[GeneZ]

Ha! FWIW, if you get to know me, you will not often find me ambiguous.

I never said that you were ambiguous.

I said this.....

I pray you find a good pastor who teaches from the original languages. There are a few to be found.

Add to that.. too much of the ambiguity we suffer with today happens when we are left at the mercy of rather generic
English translations.... So much can be lost that way.

Its translations that are many times ambiguous.

 

[makesends]

Ironically.. I have no doubt that you do.

Do you think God intended his Word to be that way?

I think God intended his Word to be several degrees beyond us, and beyond us in kind of thinking.

 

[GeneZ]

I think God intended his Word to be several degrees beyond us, and beyond us in kind of thinking.

In the original languages God is detailed removing ambiguity we argue about.
What we get too often from English translations has us punching at things not there.

Here is one example.

I will let you answer about it first.

Matthew 4:3. It typically states...

"The tempter came to him and said, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”​

Simple enough?

What was Satan tempting Jesus about?

..........