Through one man, sin entered the world.

[LeviR]

But I do believe there's a passage in scripture that states the earth moans and cries.

Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope 21 that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.

And God also curses the ground upon the sinners walk.

“Cursed is the ground for your sake; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, and you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are, and to dust you shall return.” Genesis 3:17-19 (NKJV)​

I would argue that Romans 8:20-22 is not referring to the creation of the natural heaven and earth but rather to the creation of the nation of Israel under the law.

 

[Arial]

Even the RCC knows Christ had a genealogy. That he was son of David according to the flesh. Jesus’ flesh would be the same flesh as his mother.
That’s why they invented the doctrine of immaculate conception.
They changed the flesh of Mary so Jesus wouldn’t be son of David according to the flesh.
So they deny the scripture. And go with their idea instead..

Huh? Jesus' geneology on Joseph' side is called according to the flesh because Joseph was not actually his biological father. Joseph was a descendant of David. Jesus sits on David's throne.

 

[Arial]

I would argue that Romans 8:20-22 is not referring to the creation of the natural heaven and earth but rather to the creation of the nation of Israel under the law.

If Israel is what it referred to it would have said Israel. Instead it says the "whole creation." What say you now?

 

[LeviR]

Huh? Jesus' geneology on Joseph' side is called according to the flesh because Joseph was not actually his biological father. Joseph was a descendant of David. Jesus sits on David's throne.

Is Jesus a son of David according to the flesh or not?

 

[LeviR]

If Israel is what it referred to it would have said Israel. Instead it says the "whole creation." What say you now?

The trees and birds are hoping to be set free from the bondage of corruption? Is their hope to one day have eternal life?
All dogs go to heaven? Or just faithful ones?

 

[Arial]

@LeviR

When Adam was created he did not even have any knowledge of evil in his nature, Otherwise there would be no tree there that would give him that knowledge. The issue is not just that Adam disobeyed God, it is that the way in which he disobeyed, put a knowledge in him of something that he had no knowledge of. That is how the knowledge of evil came to be IN all mankind. It is how mankind became evil. Evil being measured by what falls short of perfect good---God.

The disobedience is counted as Adam's and is passed to all through Adam, not Eve. Females come from males so they too are sinful, but it is God who says, and we do not know in what way, the "carrier" is the male. That is why Jesus could be born of a woman and not have a sinful nature, and why he could not have a human father. Only a human father would give him a sinful nature. So Jesus has two natures. That of his Father who is sinless, and that of his mother, human. Two natures do not mix with each other. Each remains distinct.

 

[Arial]

The trees and birds are hoping to be set free from the bondage of corruption?

From the bondage of the corruption. They suffer our same maladies.

Is their hope to one day have eternal life?

It is the creation that is groaning. Look down south to Florida. Groaning is a metaphor for suffering. When Jesus returns and his creation is restored the lion will lie down with the lamb and there will be no more destruction. Is 11. There will be no more sorrow or crying or death. Rev 21:1-7.

All dogs go to heaven? Or just faithful ones?

Some things we just have to wait and see.

 

[Arial]

Is Jesus a son of David according to the flesh or not?

Yes. I told you what according to the flesh means when scripture says that regarding Jesus' flesh. In reality, as opposed to the natural, Jesus did not have a father of the flesh. He was raised in Joseph's household as Joseph's son. Joseph was David's son in the natural. But David was a type of Christ. A faithful king and it is the throne of faithful king that Jesus sits upon.

So what do you think it means?

 

[LeviR]

Yes. I told you what according to the flesh means when scripture says that regarding Jesus' flesh. In reality, as opposed to the natural, Jesus did not have a father of the flesh. He was raised in Joseph's household as Joseph's son. Joseph was David's son in the natural. But David was a type of Christ. A faithful king and it is the throne of faithful king that Jesus sits upon.

So what do you think it means?

1Ch 17:11 - And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.

1Ch 17:12 - He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.

1Ch 17:13 - I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:

1Ch 17:14 - But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

1Ch 17:15 - According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

Jesus is a literal son of David according to the flesh. This by his mother Mary.

 

[LeviR]

@Arial

If you hold to a doctrine that denies Jesus to be the literal promised seed of Abraham and David according to the flesh, I would suggest you re-examine it as I did.

 

[Tambora]

The sin in his nature could only be revealed by the giving of law.

Yeppers.

Romans 4:15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

Romans 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.

 

[Ladodgers6]

I would argue that Romans 8:20-22 is not referring to the creation of the natural heaven and earth but rather to the creation of the nation of Israel under the law.

I beg to differ. Because God's curses the ground in Genesis 3:17.

“Cursed is the ground for your sake; in toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life. Both thorns and thistles it shall bring forth for you, and you shall eat the herb of the field. In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for dust you are, and to dust you shall return.” Genesis 3:17-19 (NKJV)

This is why there will be a NEW heavens and earth. As well we receiving a new glorified body. The Garden Temple where God resided was sealed shut.

 

[Tambora]

Is Jesus not a descendant of Adam?

 

[LeviR]

Is Jesus not a descendant of Adam?

I’m certain that’s what son of man(Adam) means.

 

[Tambora]

Yes, Adam and Eve could sin....

Agreed.

....but that doesn't mean they had a sin nature prior to the fall.

They had the same nature that could choose to sin or not before and after their fall.

 

[Arial]

@Arial

If you hold to a doctrine that denies Jesus to be the literal promised seed of Abraham and David according to the flesh, I would suggest you re-examine it as I did.

I do not deny that and never have. That is not the issue between you and I. The issue is you mean something completely anti-biblical when you say "in the flesh." And I am not going to agree with you on that. You seem to believe that flesh is sinful and to have flesh is sinful and that Adam was created with sinful flesh.

Jesus came in the flesh. The promised seed was not the seed of Adam but the seed of the woman. Gen 3.

 

[Tambora]

I’m certain that’s what son of man(Adam) means.

I was making the point that if Jesus is a descendant of Adam then He was born with the same nature as all other descendants of Adam.

 

[LeviR]

I was making the point that if Jesus is a descendant of Adam then He was born with the same nature as all other descendants of Adam.

Agree.
If all sons of Adam have the same nature, then so to did Jesus.

 

[Arial]

1Ch 17:11 - And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom.

1Ch 17:12 - He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever.

1Ch 17:13 - I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee:

1Ch 17:14 - But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.

1Ch 17:15 - According to all these words, and according to all this vision, so did Nathan speak unto David.

Jesus is a literal son of David according to the flesh. This by his mother Mary.

Why do you keep posting things as though I deny things that I have never denied. You are evidently unable to follow my thought processes. First you talk about his father and now here you are changing it to his mother. And did I not say that Jesus was flesh through his mother. Can you get to a place where you deal with what I have said instead of just what you have to say? That is what I would consider a conversation.When I respond to you, I deal with what you have said.

 

[Arial]

Agreed.


They had the same nature that could choose to sin or not before and after their fall.

But they would never choose to never sin. No one. Not not one.