• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.
  • Welcome Visitors! Join us and be blessed while fellowshipping and celebrating our Glorious Salvation In Christ Jesus.

The Perverted Gospel!

That goes without saying. See my post 206.

I'm talking about some catholic or mormon priest. You know exactly what I mean. So, please anser the question rather than hide some ambiguity.
And I say yes it is a requirement

Even if you mean by salvation “being lead to faith in Christ” that person is a Christian and all Christians are priests

Even though I believe it is “faith & baptism” that is administered to us!

Are you saying there are be authentic ordained priests in the new covenant?
 
And I say yes it is a requirement

Even if you mean by salvation “being lead to faith in Christ” that person is a Christian and all Christians are priests

Even though I believe it is “faith & baptism” that is administered to us!

Are you saying there are be authentic ordained priests in the new covenant?
Lets put it this way as I'm tired of playing word games....a non-believer can explain the gospel to someone...and that someone can hear it...believe it...and get saved...and would go to heaven even if they died the very same day they believed. Without a priest or being baptized.
 
Lets put it this way as I'm tired of playing word games....a non-believer can explain the gospel to someone...and that someone can hear it...believe it...and get saved...and would go to heaven even if they died the very same day they believed. Without a priest or being baptized.
Then you think scripture is in error?
 
Lets put it this way as I'm tired of playing word games....a non-believer can explain the gospel to someone...and that someone can hear it...believe it...and get saved...and would go to heaven even if they died the very same day they believed. Without a priest or being baptized.
See acts 8
 
Then you think scripture is in error?
I would ask .Do you think the idea of limbo or purgatory (same thing) perverts the gospel as a legion of gods which the non-vereable must call patron saints workers with a familiar spirit gods.

Where is the invisible presents of our Holy Father Do patron saints pervert the gospel or is the good news. . . after one dies they continue to suffer and wonder, wonder and wonder.

What does the Holy Spirit infallibly inform us ?

2 Thessalonians2: 29 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

How would you know whether of not the Holy Father that loving commands call no man dying mankind Holy Father Holy See.

How would you know Christ in us is not sending a strong delusion needed to beleive the king of lying signs to wonder, wonder wonder rafter.

I believe it why when teaching Nicodenmus as law of the fathers one who sought after signs to wonder after ? he lovingly commanded him to marvel or wonder not.

Marveling or wondering is, marveling or wondering . nothing more and nothing less. .No end of faith the salvation of ones soul

Plenty wonders, imagining and marveling

Believers have prophecy seal with 7 seals till the end of time

(The law)John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Making Jesus into a circus sea. . Do a trick work a miracle then maybe when we see with our own eyes we might believe .

The evidence the law above is broken

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

Believers have prophecy till the end of time .

They are freely given Christ's upstanding. Not all that glitters is gold there is always fools gold

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Lust of the flesh lust of the eye . . . the two building blocks of "false pride" . . fools gold
 
I don't see it. Perhaps you posted the wrong verse.
Jn 3:5 says unless you are born again by water & the spirit you CANNOT enter the kingdom

2 pet 1:11 says an entrance to the kingdom shall be ministered unto you

Requiring a lawful minister of the kingdom
 
Jn 3:5 says unless you are born again by water & the spirit you CANNOT enter the kingdom
Where does it mention water baptism is the water mentioned there? Answer...it doesn't.

Why is that water not the “living water” Jesus promised the woman at the well in John 4:10 ?

Why isn't the water...Isaiah 44:3 For I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground; I will pour my Spirit upon your offspring, and my blessing on your descendants.

As I said....why must that water be associated with water baptism when baptism isn't even mentioned?
 
Where does it mention water baptism is the water mentioned there? Answer...it doesn't.

Why is that water not the “living water” Jesus promised the woman at the well in John 4:10 ?

Why isn't the water...Isaiah 44:3 For I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground; I will pour my Spirit upon your offspring, and my blessing on your descendants.

As I said....why must that water be associated with water baptism when baptism isn't even mentioned?
It does vs 22 they immediately went to the river (water) and baptized

They did not go and preach the fundamentalist tradition “accept Christ as your personal lord and savior”!

The apostolic church teaches that it refers to baptismal regeneration and Christ commanded the church to teach and us to believe and obey!

More below
 
We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the cannon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the cannon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!
 
Sacred tradition commanded by Christ, go teach all men! Matt 28:19

Testimony of the early church in the successors of the apostles! Verified by acts 2:42

Acts 1:8 witnesses of Christ with the power of the Holy Spirit!

We must hear them! Matt 18:17

Baptism!

Didache (teaching of the apostles)
Acts 2:42

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism. And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before. 70ad


A) "It does not suffice to believe. He who believes and is not yet baptized, but is only a Catechumen, has not yet fully acquired salvation." St. Thomas Aquinas

B) "Now, even the Catechumen believes in the Cross of the Lord Jesus, but unless he be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, he cannot receive remission of his sins nor the gift of spiritual grace." St. Ambrose

C) "Without the Sacrament of Baptism, no one is ever justified. If anyone says that Baptism is optional, that is, not necessary for salvation: let him be anathema." Council of Trent

D)
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).
St. AUGUSTINE

E) “As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly . . . are brought by us where there is water, and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Except you be born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:3]” (First Apology 61 [A.D. 151]).
JUSTIN MARTYR

TERTULLIAN
“Happy is our sacrament of water, in that, by washing away the sins of our early blindness, we are set free and admitted into eternal life. . . . [But] a viper of the [Gnostic] Cainite heresy, lately conversant in this quarter, has carried away a great number with her most venomous doctrine, making it her first aim to destroy baptism—which is quite in accordance with nature, for vipers and.asps . . . themselves generally do live in arid and waterless places. But we, little fishes after the example of our [Great] Fish, Jesus Christ, are born in water, nor have we safety in any other way than by permanently abiding in water. So that most monstrous creature, who had no right to teach even sound doctrine, knew full well how to kill the little fishes—by taking them away from the water!” (Baptism 1 [A.D. 203]).

“Without baptism, salvation is attainable by none” (ibid., 12).

ORIGEN
“It is not possible to receive forgiveness of sins without baptism” (Exhortation to the Martyrs 30 [A.D. 235]).

CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“If any man does not receive baptism, he does not have salvation.

St. AUGUSTINE
“There are three ways in which sins are forgiven: in baptism, in prayer, and in the greater humility of penance; yet God does not forgive sins except to the baptized” (Sermons to Catechumens on the Creed 7:15 [A.D. 395]).

POPE LEO I
“And because of the transgression of the first man, the whole stock of the human race was tainted; no one can be set free from the state of the old Adam save through Christ’s sacrament of baptism, in which there are no distinctions between the reborn, as the apostle [Paul] says, ‘For as many of you as were baptized in Christ did put on Christ; there is neither Jew nor Greek . . . ‘ [Gal. 3:27–28]” (Letters 15:10[11] [A.D. 445]).

FULGENTIUS OF RUSPE
“From that time at which our Savior said, ‘If anyone is not reborn of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven’ [John 3:5], no one can, without the sacrament of baptism, except those who, in the Catholic Church, without baptism, pour out their blood for Christ, receive the kingdom of heaven and life eternal” (The Rule of Faith 43 [A.D. 524]).

Irenaeus
He [Jesus] came to save all through himself – all, I say, who through him are reborn in God; INFANTS, and children, and youths, and old men. Therefore he passed through every age, becoming an INFANT for INFANTS, sanctifying INFANTS; a child for children, sanctifying those who are of that age . . . [so that] he might be the perfect teacher in all things, perfect not only in respect to the setting forth of truth, perfect also in respect to relative age (Against Heresies 2:22:4 [A.D. 189]).

Hippolytus
Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them (The Apostolic Tradition 21:16 [A.D.215]).

Origen
THE CHURCH RECEIVED FROM THE APOSTLES the tradition of giving baptism even to infants. The APOSTLES, to whom were committed the secrets of divine sacraments, knew there is in everyone innate strains of [original] sin, which must be washed away through water and the Spirit (Commentaries on Romans 5:9 [A.D. 248]).

Cyprian
As to what pertains to the case of INFANTS: You [Fidus] said that they ought not to be baptized within the second or third day after their birth, that the old law of circumcision must be taken into consideration, and that you did not think that one should be baptized and sanctified within the eighth day after his birth. In our council it seemed to us far otherwise. No one agreed to the course which you thought should be taken. Rather, we all judge that the mercy and grace of God ought to be denied to no man born" (Letters 64:2 [A.D. 253]).

Augustine
It is this one Spirit who makes it possible for an infant to be regenerated . . . when that INFANT is brought to baptism; and it is through this one Spirit that the infant so presented is reborn. For it is not written, "Unless a man be born again by the will of his parents" or "by the faith of those presenting him or ministering to him," but, "Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit." The water, therefore, manifesting exteriorly the sacrament of grace, and the Spirit effecting interiorly the benefit of grace, both regenerate in one Christ that man who was generated in Adam (Letters 98:2 [A.D. 408]).
 
Back
Top