The Myth of saying that God Loved all men in the world without exception !

[brightfame52]

Lets look at Rom 1:8

We are looking at the different ways the word world is used , and exposing the negligence of all those who render Jn 3:16, as meaning that God there is being said to Love all men without exception, when the verse does not say that, its a lie !

Rom 1:8

8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.

This actually is more of what John 3:16 means, that God Loved men and women throughout the whole world.

Now here in Rom 1:8 the word world would be limited to the Roman Empire or that region. People in Egypt at that time could care less about their Faith in Christ Jesus and probably never heard of Him. It is even doubtful that every single individual without exception in the Roman Empire is even included in this statement !


Lets look at also Rom 11:12

12Now if the fall of them[ Ethnic Israel] be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

The word world here means the Gentiles, and it is even restricted in that sense as well, to be only the Elect Gentiles in the world 4

 

[brightfame52]

John 3:16

God has no Love for any man except His Saving and Electing Love, whereby He actually saves Chosen sinners through Christ. Why speak of God's Love and neglect to mention as it is declared in scripture, that it is discriminating Elective Love Rom 9:11-13 ; Deut 7:6-7

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth)

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

Deut 7:6-7

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Now who can miss this grand Truth that God's Love here is the foundation for choosing a People[Israel], His Purpose according to Election!

Paul writes in Eph 1:3-5, that those Chosen in Christ were predestined in Love.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Now is this Love of God any different from His Love to that People in Deut 7:7 or Jn 3:16 ? Are the objects of this Love different ? No it is not. In all these God's Love is toward a Chosen People Deut 7:7 or Jn 3:16. So in Jn 3:16 God's Love is towards a Chosen People in the World like He said in Deut 7:7, its the same People, but now in a different dispensation and generation ! 4

 

[brightfame52]

Then are ye bastards and not sons !

Heb 12:6-8

6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

If the Lord chastens all whom He loves, and if He Loves all men without exception, then all men without exception are chastened of the Lord. Now if that is True, then why did this inspired writer of Hebrews say, If ye be without chastening, then are ye bastards and NOT Sons ! How could he write such a comment if He believed that God Loved all men without exception ? If he believed that, then was he careless and foolish to say some could be bastards and not Son. For how could a possibility of that even happen,if God Loved all men without exception ! The reason why he said it however, is because he knew that God did not Love all men without exception.

 

[TMSO]

Again obviously you dont see that there are some sinners hated by God Ps 5:5 and some sinners Loved by God Rom 5:8

Cant be the same group of sinners.

Again, I said God loves humanity. Christians and sinners are part of humanity. Now Christians have God's eternal love, that which is of the Father towards His adopted children. Sinners have common grace and mercy. They can use all they can get before they enter their eternal punishment. God's nature is love. There is no hate in love. Just as there is no darkness in light. However, God's love is not diminished one iota by His justice. They coexist in perfect harmony. Again, God loves humanity as a corporate entity. However, next to the eternal love God has for His adopted children, that love, and $10 will get you a cup of last weeks decaf. It is the same as Jesus mean when He told us we have to HATE family and self. John says that if we do, Christ isn't in us. So it can't mean hate, even though that is the exact word Jesus used. It is a love that is so outshone by our love for God, that it appears as hate. So God's love for humanity, His creation, the work of His hands that you say God hates (I guess God is far from perfect?), He loves as a Creator. However, again, that love meets with His justice. So the love, in longsuffering, bring common grace and mercy, but that is all the sinner will ever see of God's love. The rest He will see is God's justice. That which cannot stand to have sin in its presence.

 

[brightfame52]

@TMSO

Again, I said God loves humanity.

And you speak falsely, He loves some of humanity Rom 5:8 and hates some of humanity Ps 5:5

 

[brightfame52]

John 3:16

Many False teachers today have corrupted and used God's word deceitfully by quoting Jn 3:16 as stating that God Loves all men, of all time without exception, and that believing in Christ here is an condition man must meet in order to get saved ! What utter Falsehood. For Jn 3:16 is stating no more than God Loved those in the world who are believing in His Son and that they should not perish. This is a Testimony that God Loved all those in the world who are believing or who are believers or shall be made believers as in Jn 17:20. So in this verse Jn 3:16, there is no testimony at all that God Loves any who are not or will become believers. Only believing in Christ is proof that God Loved someone. 4

 

[brightfame52]

1 Jn 3:1

If God Loved all men without exception, and His Love is the same for all, then according to 1 Jn 3:1

1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

All men without exception should be called the Son's of God ! Now if that is True, why did Jesus say to these ethnic jews ? Jn 8:42


42Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Also, if God is Father of anyone then they will Love Jesus Christ, Christ said that Himself !" If God were your Father, ye would love me: "

Now Paul wrote in 1 Cor 16:22

22If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

Now consider this, if any man Love not Jesus, then that means according to Jn 8:42, that one has not God as their Father, and if they have not God as their Father, then how could they be loved of God the Father 1 Jn 3:1 ?

Now, see how that false teaching cannot stand the test of scripture ?

 

[TMSO]

@TMSO



And you speak falsely, He loves some of humanity Rom 5:8 and hates some of humanity Ps 5:5

And you speak falsely. He loves humanity. Did God not say that believers were part of the world? That would mean that by the word world, God is speaking of all humanity. That would also mean what I said is true, and that the elect comes from all humanity, and is now a separate group. However, all together, as the world "For God so loved the world". The separation of the elect from the world is seen in, "that whosoever believeth in Him..." I'm not sure why you are having such difficulty understanding the difference between that love that Jesus explains in how God provides food for birds, and clothing for the lilies of the field which hold no importance at all in the face of humanity. Jesus says don't worry, the Father will take care of you. Again, that means nothing in the face of eternity, that is just speaking of the temporal life here.

If God hated Esau in the way you say, why did God prosper Esau until the day he died? Why did God bless Esau beyond anything he did for others? That is the love God has for humanity. Consider it in this way. Would you not consider it contempt if you were blessed your whole entire life, and then, at the moment it actually mattered, the time when it counts, your benefactor dumps you. So God blesses Esau beyond belief for his whole life, I mean, God just loves this guy, and then, he drop kicks Esau into hell. What kind of love is that? You understand the difference between the love God has for humanity as a whole without exception, and the love God has for the elect? One is everlasting, the other is the common love of a creator for His creation that comes to an end. It goes no further then being a love of a creator for His creation. Once that creation dies... so does the love. It stops at death, it stops at judgment. It is a mercy granted to those who are dying.

 

[brightfame52]

If God Loved all men without exception, then is God their Father according to 1 Jn 3:1

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

The US here must be all men without exception for those who believe God Loved all men without exception, then all men without exception are the Sons of God and have God as their Father !

Now Jesus said to some jews this Jn 8:42a

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:

So from this very statement of Jesus, If God is the Father of a person that person would love Christ, but Paul writes a statement about some who do not Love Christ 1 Cor 16:22

22If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

So how can this be if God Loved all men without exception ? Because if He did, then God is their Father, and if that is so, they will Love Jesus Christ as Jesus said to the jews Jn 8:42a 4

 

[brightfame52]

And you speak falsely. He loves humanity. Did God not say that believers were part of the world? That would mean that by the word world, God is speaking of all humanity. That would also mean what I said is true, and that the elect comes from all humanity, and is now a separate group. However, all together, as the world "For God so loved the world". The separation of the elect from the world is seen in, "that whosoever believeth in Him..." I'm not sure why you are having such difficulty understanding the difference between that love that Jesus explains in how God provides food for birds, and clothing for the lilies of the field which hold no importance at all in the face of humanity. Jesus says don't worry, the Father will take care of you. Again, that means nothing in the face of eternity, that is just speaking of the temporal life here.

If God hated Esau in the way you say, why did God prosper Esau until the day he died? Why did God bless Esau beyond anything he did for others? That is the love God has for humanity. Consider it in this way. Would you not consider it contempt if you were blessed your whole entire life, and then, at the moment it actually mattered, the time when it counts, your benefactor dumps you. So God blesses Esau beyond belief for his whole life, I mean, God just loves this guy, and then, he drop kicks Esau into hell. What kind of love is that? You understand the difference between the love God has for humanity as a whole without exception, and the love God has for the elect? One is everlasting, the other is the common love of a creator for His creation that comes to an end. It goes no further then being a love of a creator for His creation. Once that creation dies... so does the love. It stops at death, it stops at judgment. It is a mercy granted to those who are dying.

He loves some of humanity Rom 5:8 and hates some of humanity Ps 5:5

 

[TMSO]

If God Loved all men without exception, then is God their Father according to 1 Jn 3:1

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

The US here must be all men without exception for those who believe God Loved all men without exception, then all men without exception are the Sons of God and have God as their Father !

Now Jesus said to some jews this Jn 8:42a

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me:

So from this very statement of Jesus, If God is the Father of a person that person would love Christ, but Paul writes a statement about some who do not Love Christ 1 Cor 16:22

22If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

So how can this be if God Loved all men without exception ? Because if He did, then God is their Father, and if that is so, they will Love Jesus Christ as Jesus said to the jews Jn 8:42a 4

Wow. You blinded yourself. Again, there is a love that the CREATOR has for His creation, which is the world, all of humanity. Bottom line. However, God chose some out of the world, made them special, had a deep eternal love for them, leaving the rest of humanity really steamed. God didn't stop loving the rest of humanity, but that love, as the hate Jesus says we MUST have for our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, etc. appears as hate next to the love God has for His adopted children. I'm not sure why you are having such difficulty understanding this.

God is CREATOR. God is Father to believers, Creator to all humanity, which includes those who aren't believers. Father, believers, CREATOR, believers/unbelievers. It isn't that difficult to understand. How many times do I have to keep stating Creator until you finally say Fath...I mean, finally say Creator? You are one dimensional. God is multidimensional. If you would understand that, you might understand that God has a love that grants common grace and mercy to all, but has a deep eternal parental love for the elect. They are NOT the same thing. I repeat, since you just can't seem to get it. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!!!!!!!!!

Just like when Jesus asked Peter if he loved HIm, and Peter said yes, he loves Jesus. Except, Peter didn't answer Jesus question. Two different loves. The one Jesus asked about, a universal love with no bounds, while Peter said, yes, I love you like a brother. In english, it sounds the same, in Greek, they were on different planets. English just has the word love. Greek understood that there are different manners of love, and they aren't the same. You don't seem to understand that.

 

[Arial]

You blinded yourself.

You are one dimensional. God is multidimensional. If you would understand that, you might understand that God has a love that grants common grace and mercy to all, but has a deep eternal parental love for the elect. They are NOT the same thing. I repeat, since you just can't seem to get it. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING!!!!!!!!!!

TMSO. Comments like that violate the rules of the forum.

 

[brightfame52]

Jn 3:16 The distinguishing Love of God for the Elect !

Those who have corrupted the word of God, take a scripture like Jn 3:16 and force it to say or mean that God Loves all men without exception, even though that's not what it says or means. The Truth of scripture however states and demonstrates that His Love is distinguishing and its only to His Elect ! Deut 7:6-8

6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Christ, who is God, is said to Love the Church [World] Eph 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church[The Elect], and gave himself for it;

These are certainly not everyone in the world without exception. The Church are the Chosen of Eph 1:4, which are the Chosen of Deut 7:6-8. Remember God told His Chosen there that they were His Chosen Possession Deut 7:6 " the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself"

Now the word special is the hebrew word cĕgullah and means:

) possession, property

a) valued property, peculiar treasure

b) treasure


Now the same things are said in Eph 1:4 [Chosen] and Eph 1:18

18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

The word inheritance is the greek word klēronomia:

an inheritance, property received (or to be received) by inheritance

2) what is given to one as a possession

a) the eternal blessedness of the consummated kingdom of God which is to be expected after the visible return of Christ

b) the share which an individual will have in that eternal blessedness


So this being God's Chosen inheritance in Deut 7:6-7 was because of them being designated by the Father, when He chose us in Christ.

 

[TMSO]

Jn 3:16 The distinguishing Love of God for the Elect !

Those who have corrupted the word of God, take a scripture like Jn 3:16 and force it to say or mean that God Loves all men without exception, even though that's not what it says or means. The Truth of scripture however states and demonstrates that His Love is distinguishing and its only to His Elect ! Deut 7:6-8

6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

Christ, who is God, is said to Love the Church [World] Eph 5:25

Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church[The Elect], and gave himself for it;

These are certainly not everyone in the world without exception. The Church are the Chosen of Eph 1:4, which are the Chosen of Deut 7:6-8. Remember God told His Chosen there that they were His Chosen Possession Deut 7:6 " the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself"

Now the word special is the hebrew word cĕgullah and means:

) possession, property

a) valued property, peculiar treasure

b) treasure


Now the same things are said in Eph 1:4 [Chosen] and Eph 1:18

18The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

The word inheritance is the greek word klēronomia:

an inheritance, property received (or to be received) by inheritance

2) what is given to one as a possession

a) the eternal blessedness of the consummated kingdom of God which is to be expected after the visible return of Christ

b) the share which an individual will have in that eternal blessedness


So this being God's Chosen inheritance in Deut 7:6-7 was because of them being designated by the Father, when He chose us in Christ.

OK, I'll agree with you for a moment. Then according to Luke 14:26, we must hate our mother, father, sister, brother, spouse, self, etc. or we cannot follow God. That is completely logical, given the argument. If God hates everyone except the elect, and it isn't a love that is just greatly diminished by the eternal agape love He has for His children, then this hate that Jesus speaks of, must be the real deal.

26 “If anyone comes to Me, and does not [a]hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

to Me, and does not hate

μισεῖ (misei)

3404: to hate

from misos (hatred)

No nuance is permitted here, just as there is no nuance permitted for Esau. One must be consistent in interpretation.

 

[brightfame52]

The Love that God has for them He Loves Deut 7:6-7 has it's origin in Eternity, premised on His Gift of His Son, whose goings forth hath been from everlasting Mic 5:2, He having been ordained to die for the objects of His Love before the world began 1 Pet 1:20

20Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you[The Elect 1 Pet 1:1-2]

That God had a distinguishing Love among the human family of men is seen by His words here Mal 1:2

2I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, Notice, He did not say that He Loved Esau, Jacobs brother, He made a point to emphasize that !

Here it is affirmed even amongst men of the same human family of siblings, God Loved Jacob only, and not His brother esau. Now the Truth of the matter is this, each one of us falls into the category of either Jacob, those God Loves or esau, those God hates see Rom 9:13, meaning God does not Love ! We can rebel against this Truth all we want, it is not going to change God one bit ! 4

 

[brightfame52]

OK, I'll agree with you for a moment. Then according to Luke 14:26, we must hate our mother, father, sister, brother, spouse, self, etc. or we cannot follow God. That is completely logical, given the argument. If God hates everyone except the elect, and it isn't a love that is just greatly diminished by the eternal agape love He has for His children, then this hate that Jesus speaks of, must be the real deal.

26 “If anyone comes to Me, and does not [a]hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.

to Me, and does not hate

μισεῖ (misei)

3404: to hate

from misos (hatred)

No nuance is permitted here, just as there is no nuance permitted for Esau. One must be consistent in interpretation.

Has nothing to do with what the believer must do, this is about God doesnt love everybody and in fact He hates some of mankind Ps 5:5 Gods hate is Just

 

[TMSO]

Has nothing to do with what the believer must do, this is about God doesnt love everybody and in fact He hates some of mankind Ps 5:5 Gods hate is Just

I take back what I said. I had forgotten about Malachi,which says that the hatred for Esau is not so much for Esau, but for Edom. Again, I have never stated that the love God has for humanity is the same as for the elect. It is not. It is general, it is basic, next to His love for the elect, it could be called hate in the same way as Jesus statement.

 

[TMSO]

Has nothing to do with what the believer must do, this is about God doesnt love everybody and in fact He hates some of mankind Ps 5:5 Gods hate is Just

It has everything to do with what the believer is to do. God is our example. So we are to hate as God hates. No nuance.

 

[brightfame52]

Only Love revealed !

True Believers take God at His Word ! God's Sovereign distinguishing Love for His Chosen is the only Love for man God reveals as per Deut 7:6-7

6For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

Mal 1:2

2 I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? Was not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob,

Now there is nothing here that suggests that God also Loved the Egyptians or other people groups that existed when this truth was made known, and it would pure assumption to state that He did !

God's Love is not as the False teachers tell us, a general love for all mankind, regardless of their perversion of the Jn 3:16 text or the 1 Jn 2:2 text, but it is special and directed only to His own People Jn 13:1

1Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end.

The objects of his love are described by his property in them, "his own"; by whom are meant, not all mankind, who are his by creation; nor the Jews, who were his nation and countrymen according to the flesh; nor the twelve apostles only, whom he had chosen; but all the elect of God, who are his own, by his choice of them, by the Father's gift of them to him, by the purchase he made of them with his blood, and by his effectual call of them by his grace:John Gill

The Church Eph 5:25,28-29

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Scripture here is very specific as to who Christ Loved, the Church, same as in Jn 13:1, Which is His own Body

28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:


Again, Christ Loved His Own Church, His Wife, His Own Body, what can be made more plainer to any honest heart quickened by God ?

Read again Mal 1:2, this is the very scripture God inspired Paul to use when preaching about the Election of Grace Rom 9:11-13 cp Rom 11:5-6. That such a truth is really the case [God's Love being discriminate] that God Loves only some men and not others, Paul anticipated the objection of our carnal mind against it and wrote immediately after vs 14

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

Now how many of us believe that for God to Love only some of humanity and hate others, love them not, simply based upon motives in Himself and not the creature's doing good or evil, that God would be unrighteous[injustice] for doing so ?

Injustice means :

the quality or fact of being unjust; inequity.
violation of the rights of others; unjust or unfair action or treatment.


Those of you who say what Paul anticipated his hearers to say, that if God did this He would be unfair, then you know that Paul Preached a Distinguishing Love of God for some and hating others !

 

[brightfame52]

I take back what I said. I had forgotten about Malachi,which says that the hatred for Esau is not so much for Esau, but for Edom. Again, I have never stated that the love God has for humanity is the same as for the elect. It is not. It is general, it is basic, next to His love for the elect, it could be called hate in the same way as Jesus statement.

Nothing general about Gods Love, its in Jesus Christ, its special and exclusive. God takes care of all His creatures providentially, yet He doesnt love them. Like a Prison warden, he or she may care for the prisoners,providing for them, taking care of them, but they dont love the prisoners.