THE LATE MORGAN EDWARDS vs. THE RAPTURE

[Buff Scott Jr.]

The Late
MORGAN EDWARDS

Author & “Inventor” of the Modern-Day
R A P T U R E
​

I issue a challenge this day to anyone who can document valid evidence that the “Rapture” dogma, as publicized today, was taught by any church leader or “church father” prior to 257 years ago.” In 1742-44, Morgan Edwards wrote a book on the modern-day “Rapture” doctrine. It was published in 1788. Thus began the contemporary “Rapture” melodrama.

Morgan became a Baptist leader of notoriety, confirming my conviction that the “Rapture” doctrine is largely a Baptist doctrine, not a doctrine of Jesus and his apostles. As far as my research implies, there’s no record prior to 1742 of the “Rapture” doctrine being taught or its details being published by anyone, not even by the “church fathers.” It strikes me rather odd that if the “Rapture” doctrine is a divine teaching, why did our “church fathers” fail to write about it? They wrote about all other major doctrines of the apostles. Why would they overlook a major topic as important as the “Rapture?”

It should be noted at this juncture that the “Rapture” teaching has Jesus descending twice more, once to “rapture” saints and once to put an end to the so-called “Tribulation” and “Armageddon,” followed by a thousand-year earthly government. In this matter, the “Rapture” advocates select a few distinct, highly symbolic passages from the Book of Revelation, tie them in with the Thessalonian verses, and the screenplay is consummated. Please keep that idea in mind as we examine this dramatic creed. For if these verses fail to advance the “Rapture” doctrine, it falls by the wayside.

It is wise to remember that nowhere in scripture is it taught, or remotely indicated, that Jesus will personally and visibly return twice more. His second advent is alluded to time after time, but never a third advent. Nor do the scriptures speak of saints ascending into heaven twice, once at the so-called “Rapture,” and once again “when the thousand years are over,” as the doctrine is advocated.

Before delving further into the “Rapture” doctrine and its biblical authenticity, I think it wise that we identify the doctrine’s composition, for I do not wish to misrepresent. Let’s begin with the term “rapture.”

1] “Rapture” is not found in any of our oldest Greek manuscripts. It has its origin in the Latin word “rapere,” which means to “take away,” “snatch out,” or “to seize.” We must not call “rapture” a biblical term for there is no Greek word that translates it—at least none I have discovered.

2] The idea is that Jesus will suddenly appear in the air to snatch away from the earth and take to heaven all living saints, as well as the resurrected bodies of those believers who have died.

3] If you are on the roof of your house, or riding horseback, or in your car on a busy highway, or in bed with your spouse, you will be “snatched” or “caught up”—disappear all of a sudden. Your unregenerate friends and relatives will be amazed at your sudden disappearance. Cars will crash without drivers; planes will fall without pilots.

4] At the “Rapture,” Jesus “snatches up the church” only. But at “The Revelation,” when He is revealed once again, He will “return with the church” and bring an end to “The Tribulation” and “Armageddon.” A thousand-year earthly government and reign will then commence.

Does this sound like something you’ve never heard before? If yes, it is because you’ve never read it before—at least not in the scriptures. The scriptures used to support the “Rapture” are 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17, where Paul deals with the Lord’s return. Revelation, chapters 4-5, are supposed to capture the heavenly scene, and the 7-year “Tribulation” period, which follows the “snatching up,” is described in Revelation, chapters 4-19—or so allege the “Rapture” defenders.

If 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17 do not teach the “Rapture” creed, the entire core of the screenplay collapses. We agree that when Jesus returns, He will bring with him “those who have fallen asleep” [v.14]. Furthermore, we concur that when He makes His second advent, He will “snatch up” those of us still living “to meet the Lord in the air” [v.17].

It is agreed further that those of us still living will not precede or go ahead of those who have died [v.15]. We will be caught up together with departed saints, after they have been resurrected from their paradise abode. These saints will accompany Jesus [“God will bring with Jesus,” v.14] as He gathers to Himself those who are still alive.

This is where the agreement ends. Our premillennial advocates have Jesus descending twice, once to “Rapture” saints and once more when He returns with them to put an end to “The Tribulation” and “Armageddon,” followed by a thousand-year earthly government. It seems quite clear, in spite of all the efforts of rapture enthusiasts to authenticate this delusive and deceptive doctrinal theory, it cannot be established as having preceded from Heaven.​

 

[Mr GLee]

The Late
MORGAN EDWARDS

Author & “Inventor” of the Modern-Day
R A P T U R E
​

I issue a challenge this day to anyone who can document valid evidence that the “Rapture” dogma, as publicized today, was taught by any church leader or “church father” prior to 257 years ago.” In 1742-44, Morgan Edwards wrote a book on the modern-day “Rapture” doctrine. It was published in 1788. Thus began the contemporary “Rapture” melodrama.

Morgan became a Baptist leader of notoriety, confirming my conviction that the “Rapture” doctrine is largely a Baptist doctrine, not a doctrine of Jesus and his apostles. As far as my research implies, there’s no record prior to 1742 of the “Rapture” doctrine being taught or its details being published by anyone, not even by the “church fathers.” It strikes me rather odd that if the “Rapture” doctrine is a divine teaching, why did our “church fathers” fail to write about it? They wrote about all other major doctrines of the apostles. Why would they overlook a major topic as important as the “Rapture?”

It should be noted at this juncture that the “Rapture” teaching has Jesus descending twice more, once to “rapture” saints and once to put an end to the so-called “Tribulation” and “Armageddon,” followed by a thousand-year earthly government. In this matter, the “Rapture” advocates select a few distinct, highly symbolic passages from the Book of Revelation, tie them in with the Thessalonian verses, and the screenplay is consummated. Please keep that idea in mind as we examine this dramatic creed. For if these verses fail to advance the “Rapture” doctrine, it falls by the wayside.

It is wise to remember that nowhere in scripture is it taught, or remotely indicated, that Jesus will personally and visibly return twice more. His second advent is alluded to time after time, but never a third advent. Nor do the scriptures speak of saints ascending into heaven twice, once at the so-called “Rapture,” and once again “when the thousand years are over,” as the doctrine is advocated.

Before delving further into the “Rapture” doctrine and its biblical authenticity, I think it wise that we identify the doctrine’s composition, for I do not wish to misrepresent. Let’s begin with the term “rapture.”

1] “Rapture” is not found in any of our oldest Greek manuscripts. It has its origin in the Latin word “rapere,” which means to “take away,” “snatch out,” or “to seize.” We must not call “rapture” a biblical term for there is no Greek word that translates it—at least none I have discovered.

2] The idea is that Jesus will suddenly appear in the air to snatch away from the earth and take to heaven all living saints, as well as the resurrected bodies of those believers who have died.

3] If you are on the roof of your house, or riding horseback, or in your car on a busy highway, or in bed with your spouse, you will be “snatched” or “caught up”—disappear all of a sudden. Your unregenerate friends and relatives will be amazed at your sudden disappearance. Cars will crash without drivers; planes will fall without pilots.

4] At the “Rapture,” Jesus “snatches up the church” only. But at “The Revelation,” when He is revealed once again, He will “return with the church” and bring an end to “The Tribulation” and “Armageddon.” A thousand-year earthly government and reign will then commence.

Does this sound like something you’ve never heard before? If yes, it is because you’ve never read it before—at least not in the scriptures. The scriptures used to support the “Rapture” are 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17, where Paul deals with the Lord’s return. Revelation, chapters 4-5, are supposed to capture the heavenly scene, and the 7-year “Tribulation” period, which follows the “snatching up,” is described in Revelation, chapters 4-19—or so allege the “Rapture” defenders.

If 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17 do not teach the “Rapture” creed, the entire core of the screenplay collapses. We agree that when Jesus returns, He will bring with him “those who have fallen asleep” [v.14]. Furthermore, we concur that when He makes His second advent, He will “snatch up” those of us still living “to meet the Lord in the air” [v.17].

It is agreed further that those of us still living will not precede or go ahead of those who have died [v.15]. We will be caught up together with departed saints, after they have been resurrected from their paradise abode. These saints will accompany Jesus [“God will bring with Jesus,” v.14] as He gathers to Himself those who are still alive.

This is where the agreement ends. Our premillennial advocates have Jesus descending twice, once to “Rapture” saints and once more when He returns with them to put an end to “The Tribulation” and “Armageddon,” followed by a thousand-year earthly government. It seems quite clear, in spite of all the efforts of rapture enthusiasts to authenticate this delusive and deceptive doctrinal theory, it cannot be established as having preceded from Heaven.​

I would offer the last chapter of the book of prophecy or called book of law, Revelation. In its introduction, introduces the kind of language called the signified tongue .or a parable . Comparing the the temporal thing seen to unseen understanding of our invisible head .

The thousand years in chapter 20 carries the same tongue as the first three times "thousand" a metaphor to represent a unknown called hidden manna n 2:17 Revelation the last chapter of all of the metaphors beginning in Genesis until that time come together sealed with seven seals till the end of time

The Amil (not literal thousand.) position seems to work the best today.. It was popular at the time of reformation

.Revelation 1King James Version1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Psalm 90:4For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Ecclesiastes 6:6 Yea, though he live a thousand years twice told, yet hath he seen no good: do not all go to one place?

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

As denotes parable in view Not one thousand is one 24 hour day

The word thousand is used that way to represent whatever is in view. Time one of many manners .

Without parables the signified tongue Christ spoke not .

 

[TMSO]

The Late
MORGAN EDWARDS

Author & “Inventor” of the Modern-Day
R A P T U R E
​

I issue a challenge this day to anyone who can document valid evidence that the “Rapture” dogma, as publicized today, was taught by any church leader or “church father” prior to 257 years ago.” In 1742-44, Morgan Edwards wrote a book on the modern-day “Rapture” doctrine. It was published in 1788. Thus began the contemporary “Rapture” melodrama.

Morgan became a Baptist leader of notoriety, confirming my conviction that the “Rapture” doctrine is largely a Baptist doctrine, not a doctrine of Jesus and his apostles. As far as my research implies, there’s no record prior to 1742 of the “Rapture” doctrine being taught or its details being published by anyone, not even by the “church fathers.” It strikes me rather odd that if the “Rapture” doctrine is a divine teaching, why did our “church fathers” fail to write about it? They wrote about all other major doctrines of the apostles. Why would they overlook a major topic as important as the “Rapture?”

It should be noted at this juncture that the “Rapture” teaching has Jesus descending twice more, once to “rapture” saints and once to put an end to the so-called “Tribulation” and “Armageddon,” followed by a thousand-year earthly government. In this matter, the “Rapture” advocates select a few distinct, highly symbolic passages from the Book of Revelation, tie them in with the Thessalonian verses, and the screenplay is consummated. Please keep that idea in mind as we examine this dramatic creed. For if these verses fail to advance the “Rapture” doctrine, it falls by the wayside.

It is wise to remember that nowhere in scripture is it taught, or remotely indicated, that Jesus will personally and visibly return twice more. His second advent is alluded to time after time, but never a third advent. Nor do the scriptures speak of saints ascending into heaven twice, once at the so-called “Rapture,” and once again “when the thousand years are over,” as the doctrine is advocated.

Before delving further into the “Rapture” doctrine and its biblical authenticity, I think it wise that we identify the doctrine’s composition, for I do not wish to misrepresent. Let’s begin with the term “rapture.”

1] “Rapture” is not found in any of our oldest Greek manuscripts. It has its origin in the Latin word “rapere,” which means to “take away,” “snatch out,” or “to seize.” We must not call “rapture” a biblical term for there is no Greek word that translates it—at least none I have discovered.

2] The idea is that Jesus will suddenly appear in the air to snatch away from the earth and take to heaven all living saints, as well as the resurrected bodies of those believers who have died.

3] If you are on the roof of your house, or riding horseback, or in your car on a busy highway, or in bed with your spouse, you will be “snatched” or “caught up”—disappear all of a sudden. Your unregenerate friends and relatives will be amazed at your sudden disappearance. Cars will crash without drivers; planes will fall without pilots.

4] At the “Rapture,” Jesus “snatches up the church” only. But at “The Revelation,” when He is revealed once again, He will “return with the church” and bring an end to “The Tribulation” and “Armageddon.” A thousand-year earthly government and reign will then commence.

Does this sound like something you’ve never heard before? If yes, it is because you’ve never read it before—at least not in the scriptures. The scriptures used to support the “Rapture” are 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17, where Paul deals with the Lord’s return. Revelation, chapters 4-5, are supposed to capture the heavenly scene, and the 7-year “Tribulation” period, which follows the “snatching up,” is described in Revelation, chapters 4-19—or so allege the “Rapture” defenders.

If 1st Thessalonians 4:13-17 do not teach the “Rapture” creed, the entire core of the screenplay collapses. We agree that when Jesus returns, He will bring with him “those who have fallen asleep” [v.14]. Furthermore, we concur that when He makes His second advent, He will “snatch up” those of us still living “to meet the Lord in the air” [v.17].

It is agreed further that those of us still living will not precede or go ahead of those who have died [v.15]. We will be caught up together with departed saints, after they have been resurrected from their paradise abode. These saints will accompany Jesus [“God will bring with Jesus,” v.14] as He gathers to Himself those who are still alive.

This is where the agreement ends. Our premillennial advocates have Jesus descending twice, once to “Rapture” saints and once more when He returns with them to put an end to “The Tribulation” and “Armageddon,” followed by a thousand-year earthly government. It seems quite clear, in spite of all the efforts of rapture enthusiasts to authenticate this delusive and deceptive doctrinal theory, it cannot be established as having preceded from Heaven.​

So you haven't read pseudo ephraem, or read about brother dolcino? The idea of a rapture even predates covenant theology, and dispensationalism. It has been around in the church, even if it wasn't written down. Now preterism... that came from the Jesuits during the counter reformation...

 

[Josheb]

So you haven't read pseudo ephraem, or read about brother dolcino? The idea of a rapture even predates covenant theology, and dispensationalism. It has been around in the church, even if it wasn't written down. Now preterism... that came from the Jesuits during the counter reformation...

That's hogwash.

Pseudo-Ephraim was written in the fourth century. Covenant theology is written in the Bible (not to be confused with latter versions of theologies built on the scripturally-established marker, the covenant. Prior to the 19th century, the rapture was not considered a separate event, and event separated by a lengthy period of time from the final coming of Christ and those that thought that way throughout Christian history were a marginal (normatively and statistically) population deemed heretical (like Dolcino). Preterism, on the other hand is easily traced back to the ECFs and was considered within the pale of orthodoxy (if not mainstream). The Jesuit de Alcazar did not invent preterism; he formalized it. Big difference. Augustine did not invent amillennialism; he articulated the case for an amillennial point of view that formalized what had already long existed. Alcazar took an already-existing orthodox point of view and used it to defend against the accusation the Pope was the antichrist.

When people like Thomas Ice attempt to justify Dispensationalism with appeals to Pseudo-Ephraim (PE) and Dolcino what they are asserting is the heretical and statistical nature of those they use to justify the theology. In other words, the argument is NOT, "Hey, we have validity because others prior to John Darby held these views." They argument is, "Hey, believe us because prior heretics held these views," and Ice is dishonest for not being fully forthcoming with the information. A lie of omission is still a lie. Another point of logic that goes unspoken with appeals to PE and Dolcino, is that we should all be Catholic. If those two sources are correct and they were both Catholic then logic dictates we all be Catholic. That is the kind of "logic" employed with appeals to PE and Dolcino.

I, for one, will pass on both the heretical sources as justification for anything and the twisted logic employed there, and I encourage and exhort every Christian to be, at a minimum, suspicious of teachers who appeal to normative outliers, a lack of full disclosure, and twisted reason.

 

[Mr GLee]

I would offer..

The wake up call on the last day under the Sun. The new creature the bride prophesied of beforehand by grace from Genesis 3 ad with Isiah 53 . Christ the lamb of God slain from the six days he did work. The promised demonstration of the finished work is found in Genesis 3:15 again represented in Isaiah 53.The witness of two working as one .

A demonstration of a perfect work. The wake up sign the last day

The first part of the three part three days and nights demonstration. of two working together as one Jesus, the Son of man sufferings. In the garden of Gethsemane As the Father bruised heel of the Son of man the father striking him with the letter of the law "death" ,crushing the head of the serpent ; Jesus looking for strength form the other apostles found them a asleep three times before they heard the wake up call of the Father (wakeup sleepy heads ) time for part two the hill the more popular of the three demonstrations of the lamb slain from the foundation.

A demonstration of a perfect work. The wake up arise and shine call as a sign the last day like a thief in the night

 

[CrowCross]

​

I issue a challenge this day to anyone who can document valid evidence that the “Rapture” dogma, as publicized today, was taught by any church leader or “church father” prior to 257 years ago.” In 1742-44, Morgan Edwards wrote a book on the modern-day “Rapture” doctrine. It was published in 1788. Thus began the contemporary “Rapture” melodrama.

Morgan became a Baptist leader of notoriety, confirming my conviction that the “Rapture” doctrine is largely a Baptist doctrine, not a doctrine of Jesus and his apostles. As far as my research implies, there’s no record prior to 1742 of the “Rapture” doctrine being taught or its details being published by anyone, not even by the “church fathers.” It strikes me rather odd that if the “Rapture” doctrine is a divine teaching, why did our “church fathers” fail to write about it? They wrote about all other major doctrines of the apostles. Why would they overlook a major topic as important as the “Rapture?”​

I found this article....
A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE RAPTURE
One of the most often cited objections to pretribulationism is that it is a new teaching in church history having only come on the scene in the 1830s. It is often argued that if the pre-trib rapture were biblical then it would have been taught earlier and throughout church history. In the last decade, individuals have found a number of pre-1830 references to a pre-trib rapture. Here is a summary of that evidence.

You can read the rest of the article...

Skipping to the conclusion....

I have heard from another scholar who is reading through many Latin manuscripts of previously unpublished documents that he has found a number of previously unknown pre-trib rapture statements from pre-nineteenth century Christendom. He is planning on publishing his material in a few years. What these pre-Darby rapture statements prove, if nothing else, is that indeed others did see the rapture taught in Scripture similar to the way that pretribulationists in our own day teach. Thus, the argument that no one ever taught pretribulationism until J. N. Darby in 1830 is just not historically true and it is becoming increasingly clear with each passing year. Maranatha!

 

[TMSO]

I found this article....
A BRIEF HISTORY OF THE RAPTURE
One of the most often cited objections to pretribulationism is that it is a new teaching in church history having only come on the scene in the 1830s. It is often argued that if the pre-trib rapture were biblical then it would have been taught earlier and throughout church history. In the last decade, individuals have found a number of pre-1830 references to a pre-trib rapture. Here is a summary of that evidence.

You can read the rest of the article...

Skipping to the conclusion....

I have heard from another scholar who is reading through many Latin manuscripts of previously unpublished documents that he has found a number of previously unknown pre-trib rapture statements from pre-nineteenth century Christendom. He is planning on publishing his material in a few years. What these pre-Darby rapture statements prove, if nothing else, is that indeed others did see the rapture taught in Scripture similar to the way that pretribulationists in our own day teach. Thus, the argument that no one ever taught pretribulationism until J. N. Darby in 1830 is just not historically true and it is becoming increasingly clear with each passing year. Maranatha!

What those passage show is that the early church was dealing with the idea that God would not pour out His wrath on His children. The rapture is one of the ways that were considered as to how God would shield His children, the church, from His wrath. This is like a lot of other systematized teachings in the church (other then preterism). They were the systematization of beliefs that had been present in the church for some time. They didn't just pop into existence in someone's head (except for preterism.)

 

[Mr GLee]

What those passage show is that the early church was dealing with the idea that God would not pour out His wrath on His children. The rapture is one of the ways that were considered as to how God would shield His children, the church, from His wrath. This is like a lot of other systematized teachings in the church (other then preterism). They were the systematization of beliefs that had been present in the church for some time. They didn't just pop into existence in someone's head (except for preterism.)

Shielding his children is what he is doing.

 

[CrowCross]

Shielding his children is what he is doing.

Shielding from what?

 

[Mr GLee]

Shielding from what?

Hi Thanks

False prophets, false apostles teaching oral traditons of dying mankind. Teaching that some of mankind mysteriously disappear and suddenly in the same corrupted bodies (male and female) reappear. . called a rapture .

The shield of faith. . Christ's not of our own dying self.

All die having receiving not the promise of a new incorruptible body. which will be . neither male nor female Jew nor gentile . All will receive it at the same time on the last day under the sun. . . . "the corruption time keeper" winding down to the last day

Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, (Christ) received not the promise:God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

In that way we must be careful or some will say the ressurection has come and they have received a new body neither male nor female. . Jew nor gentile hoping in reincarnation. Come back whatever, whoever you desire. The true identification theft

Gender dysphoria the Democrat's choice on the Queen Kamala. . fired Biden ticket .(LOL) As it would seem if it feels good do it government . History repeating its self .The rise and fall of any empire or family moral issues .

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith (the unseen eternal things) of some.

 

[CrowCross]

Hi Thanks

False prophets, false apostles teaching oral traditons of dying mankind. Teaching that some of mankind mysteriously disappear and suddenly in the same corrupted bodies (male and female) reappear. . called a rapture .

The shield of faith. . Christ's not of our own dying self.

All die having receiving not the promise of a new incorruptible body. which will be . neither male nor female Jew nor gentile . All will receive it at the same time on the last day under the sun. . . . "the corruption time keeper" winding down to the last day

Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, (Christ) received not the promise:God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

In that way we must be careful or some will say the ressurection has come and they have received a new body neither male nor female. . Jew nor gentile hoping in reincarnation. Come back whatever, whoever you desire. The true identification theft

Gender dysphoria the Democrat's choice on the Queen Kamala. . fired Biden ticket .(LOL) As it would seem if it feels good do it government . History repeating its self .The rise and fall of any empire or family moral issues .

2 Timothy 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith (the unseen eternal things) of some.

Your description wasn't very accurate. Then again you seem to lack hope.