The Invitation System and the Altar Call

[ReverendRV]

I wouldn't say that Jesus calling those who thirst to come to the waters, or similar things like "Come to me all you who labour and are heavy laden," can be likened to the emotion-laden "altar calls" brought in by Finney and others. Jesus called people to Himself. The altar calls call people to get out of their seats and come to the front.

I agree...

But Isaiah didn't do anything wrong, did he?

Perhaps we can say he did it right; that he was Inspired...

 

[ReverendRV]

I agree...

But Isaiah didn't do anything wrong, did he?

Perhaps we can say he did it right; that he was Inspired...

Perhaps the Reformed should be Challenged to do it right, and lead the way...

Take the Challenge. Can we become like all in Hope to win some? How can we do it better? We have our Traditions, but this restriction is not Isaiah's Tradition. Is Isaiah's Call the Milk of the Word? What if we stopped treating it as the Meat of the Word; and stop crying over spilled Milk?

 

[Carbon]

Obviously, I think God did give us an example of an Alter Call in his Word...

Ho, everyone that thirsteth, come ye to the waters

Being a Calvinist, you know what the inward call is?

 

[Carbon]

I wouldn't say that Jesus calling those who thirst to come to the waters, or similar things like "Come to me all you who labour and are heavy laden," can be likened to the emotion-laden "altar calls" brought in by Finney and others. Jesus called people to Himself. The altar calls call people to get out of their seats and come to the front.

Amen. And there is quite a difference between the two.

 

[ReverendRV]

Being a Calvinist, you know what the inward call is?

I do. The Inward Call walks hand-in-hand with the Outward Call; even if Christ had to give the Outward Call himself...

 

[Carbon]

I do. The Inward Call walks hand-in-hand with the Outward Call; even if Christ had to give the Outward Call himself...

Well, when the elect hears the (inward) call at the appointed time, there is no need for an altar call. And if an elect goes forward at an Altar call, and it is not yet his appointed time, it has no effect.
Therefore, all the Alter calls are teaching is error, it is man-centered, not gospel-centered. Personally, I do not believe it has any business in true Christianity.

 

[ReverendRV]

Well, when the elect hears the (inward) call at the appointed time, there is no need for an altar call. And if an elect goes forward at an Altar call, and it is not yet his appointed time, it has no effect.
Therefore, all the Alter calls are teaching is error, it is man-centered, not gospel-centered. Personally, I do not believe it has any business in true Christianity.

Then a better Altar Call is required. What would make it better? How can we keep Ananias and Sapphira from walking an aisle, but stay true to Saint Peter?

Didn't the Upper Room produce false Converts? The Bad Soils produced false Converts. A thing is established by two or three Witnesses. It's God's business who's heart he Opens...

 

[Arial]

Obviously, I think God did give us an example of an Alter Call in his Word...

Ho, everyone that thirsteth, come ye to the waters
These are the words not of the prophet, but of the Lord, as what follows throughout the chapter shows; and are directed to the Gentiles, as Aben Ezra thinks: and indeed their conversion is manifestly spoken of in it; and who, Kimchi says, after the war of Gog and Magog, shall know that the Lord reigns, and shall come and be desirous of learning his judgments and laws. The word "ho" is expressive of calling, as the Jewish commentators rightly observe; and carries in it an invitation, in which there seems to be a commiseration of the case of the persons called and it is delivered in indefinite terms, and very openly and publicly; and has in it the nature of a Gospel call or invitation, to persons described as "thirsty"; not in natural, much less in a sinful sense, but in a spiritual one; thirsting after forgiveness of sin by the blood of Christ;

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Isaiah 55:1 - Bible Verse Meaning and Commentary
What does Isaiah 55:1 mean? Read commentary on this popular Bible verse and understand the real meaning behind God's Word using John Gill's Exposition of the Bible.
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Sure; an Altar Call needs to be handled right. But it should be handled; it's not the same as Snake Handling...

It is as though two separate things (calling and the modern altar call) are being conflated as being the same thing, and that is simply not the case. You have given examples of Jesus calling, but don't forget that he also said that no one can (will) hear or answer that call unless it has been granted to him by the Father. And that his sheep hear his voice and follow him. The gospel is given freely to all, only in the sense that it is not discriminatory as to ethnicity or nation or class or gender or anything else. It covers the whole world and all types of people. But the non elect are just as deaf to it, even when they hear it, as they were had they not heard it.

The problem of the modern altar call is that the implication behind it (and those responding therefore see and understand it) is that the coming forward and repeating words after the preacher, is what saved them, rather than a genuine change of heart brought about by God himself through regeneration. And as we have seen, they carry that as their security all the days following, whether or not they have actually been placed in Christ through the power of God. Even if they actually have been, by the grace of God because the new birth took place prior to the altar call, they carry the result of that false view of God, the person and work of Christ, their part in salvation, and many, many, misinterpretations of scriptures, as their security blanket. Unless, of course, as is the case with most, if not all, Reformed on this forum, God intervenes there too.

They become immune and deaf to sound doctrine and fight tooth and nail to hold onto what is a false teaching. And I cannot help but think that the bottom line reason for that is something they will never admit, because they cannot recognize it, that there is a place always seated in their minds if not their hearts. of trusting in themselves rather than God.

So, one of the greatest dangers of the modern altar call is restricting a person's ability to grow in the knowledge of God, gaining discernment between what is good and evil, truth and a lie, or recognizing a wolf wearing sheep's clothing. If there is any doubt about that, visit forums, or look at the vast majority of the modern church.

If the gospel is preached, if the word is correctly handled as to teaching and doctrine, if it is expounded upon, and God's glory and perfection is preached, there is no need for an altar call. The preacher deals with what is his wheelhouse, his duty, God is perfectly able to gather a lamb to the Shepherd as they sit in the pew, or stand on the street corner listening to an evangelist who is doing his work properly, right where they are, It takes place in their heart

 

[ReverendRV]

It is as though two separate things (calling and the modern altar call) are being conflated as being the same thing, and that is simply not the case. You have given examples of Jesus calling, but don't forget that he also said that no one can (will) hear or answer that call unless it has been granted to him by the Father. And that his sheep hear his voice and follow him. The gospel is given freely to all, only in the sense that it is not discriminatory as to ethnicity or nation or class or gender or anything else. It covers the whole world and all types of people. But the non elect are just as deaf to it, even when they hear it, as they were had they not heard it.

The problem of the modern altar call is that the implication behind it (and those responding therefore see and understand it) is that the coming forward and repeating words after the preacher, is what saved them, rather than a genuine change of heart brought about by God himself through regeneration. And as we have seen, they carry that as their security all the days following, whether or not they have actually been placed in Christ through the power of God. Even if they actually have been, by the grace of God because the new birth took place prior to the altar call, they carry the result of that false view of God, the person and work of Christ, their part in salvation, and many, many, misinterpretations of scriptures, as their security blanket. Unless, of course, as is the case with most, if not all, Reformed on this forum, God intervenes there too.

They become immune and deaf to sound doctrine and fight tooth and nail to hold onto it. And I cannot help but think that the bottom line reason for that is something they will never admit, because they cannot recognize it, that there is a place always seated in their minds if not their hearts. of trusting in themselves rather than God.

So, one of the greatest dangers of the modern altar call is restricting a person's ability to grow in the knowledge of God, gaining discernment between what is good and evil, truth and a lie, or recognizing a wolf wearing sheep's clothing. If there is any doubt about that, visit forums, or look at the vast majority of the modern church.

If the gospel is preached, if the word is correctly handled as to teaching and doctrine, if it is expounded upon, and God's glory and perfection is preached, there is no need for an altar call. The preacher deals with what is his wheelhouse, his duty, God is perfectly able to gather a lamb to the Shepherd as they sit in the pew, or stand on the street corner listening to an evangelist who is doing his work properly, right where they are, It takes place in their heart

No one is immune or deaf to the Inward Call...

As Martyn Lloyd-Jones preached; "But God"...

Let's remember Spurgeon's Conversion based on, "Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth". Spurgeon received God's Call from the Altar...

I sometimes think I might have been in darkness and despair now, had it not been for the goodness of God in sending a snowstorm one Sunday morning, when I was going to a place of worship.

When I could go no further, I turned down a court and came to a little Primitive Methodist Church.

In that chapel there might be a dozen or fifteen people.

The minister did not come that morning: snowed up, I suppose.

A poor man, a shoemaker, a tailor, or something of that sort, went up into the pulpit to preach.

He was obliged to stick to his text, for the simple reason that he had nothing else to say. The text was, ‘Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth’ [Isa 45:22].

He did not even pronounce the words rightly, but that did not matter.

There was, I thought, a glimpse of hope for me in the text.

He began thus:

‘My dear friends, this is a very simple text indeed. It says, “Look.”

Now that does not take a deal of effort. It ain’t lifting your foot or your finger; it is just “look.” Well, a man need not go to college to learn to look. You may be the biggest fool, and yet you can look. A man need not be worth a thousand a year to look. Anyone can look; a child can look. But this is what the text says.

Then it says, “Look unto Me.”

‘Ay,’ said he, in broad Essex, ‘many of ye are looking to yourselves. No use looking there. You’ll never find comfort in yourselves.’

Then the good man followed up his text in this way:

‘Look unto Me: I am sweating great drops of blood.

Look unto Me; I am hanging on the Cross.

Look: I am dead and buried.

Look unto Me; I rise again.

Look unto Me; I ascend; I am sitting at the Father’s right hand.

O, look to Me! Look to Me!’

When he had got about that length, and managed to spin out ten minutes, he was at the length of his tether.

Then he looked at me under the gallery, and I daresay, with so few present, he knew me to be a stranger.

He then said, ‘Young man, you look very miserable.’

Well, I did; but I had not been accustomed to have remarks made on my personal appearance from the pulpit before. However, it was a good blow struck.

He continued: ‘And you will always be miserable—miserable in life and miserable in death—if you do not obey my text. But if you obey now, this moment, you will be saved.’

Then he shouted, as only a Primitive Methodist can, ‘Young man, look to Jesus Christ.’

There and then the cloud was gone, the darkness had rolled away, and that moment I saw the sun; and I could have risen that moment and sung with the most enthusiastic of them of the Precious Blood of Christ.”

How the Snowpocalypse of 1850 Led to Spurgeon's Conversion 164 Years Ago Today

164 years today a snowstorm prevented 15-year-old Charles Spurgeon from attending his father's church. He wandered into a small Primitive Methodist Chapel and heard a short sermon from a layman that changed his life.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

How many Saints would be Lost without this Altar Call?

 

[prism]

I know we aren't perfect, but I still believe faith that saves is perfect.

I wasn't referring to the 'faith that saves' but our everyday faith and I thought you were referring to the same.

 

[Arial]

No one is immune or deaf to the Inward Call...

As I said in my post.

Let's remember Spurgeon's Conversion based on, "Look unto Me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth". Spurgeon received God's Call from the Altar...

Well, people should receive God's call from the altar. That is the purpose of preaching. But that preacher in Spurgeon's case did not say. "Come up to the altar and repeat after me----and you will be saved." He preached literally nothing but Christ and him crucified and risen again. And it was not the preacher who opened Spurgeon's eyes, it was God, and Spurgeon, as history proclaims, did not connect his salvation to anything but God opening his eyes.

So I repeat the call of God, whether inward or outward, should not be confused and identified and the same thing as the modern altar call. Some, even many are saved during an altar call, but the altar call had nothing to do with it. However, many spend the rest of their Christian lives thinking that it did, and that it was their confession that did the saving. Jesus did the work and they did what was necessary for it to be applied to them. Their whole doctrinal premise begins wrong. Their whole doctrine of God, begins wrong. And they propagate it.

Preach the word. Altar calls are not necessary.

 

[ReverendRV]

As I said in my post.

Well, people should receive God's call from the altar. That is the purpose of preaching. But that preacher in Spurgeon's case did not say. "Come up to the altar and repeat after me----and you will be saved." He preached literally nothing but Christ and him crucified and risen again. And it was not the preacher who opened Spurgeon's eyes, it was God, and Spurgeon, as history proclaims, did not connect his salvation to anything but God opening his eyes.

So I repeat the call of God, whether inward or outward, should not be confused and identified and the same thing as the modern altar call. Some, even many are saved during an altar call, but the altar call had nothing to do with it. However, many spend the rest of their Christian lives thinking that it did, and that it was their confession that did the saving. Jesus did the work and they did what was necessary for it to be applied to them. Their whole doctrinal premise begins wrong. Their whole doctrine of God, begins wrong. And they propagate it.

Preach the word. Altar calls are not necessary.

Trusting in an Altar Call, is not the Gospel...

You shouldn't have an issue with an Altar Call that calls people forward to Confess Christ...

 

[Arial]

Trusting in an Altar Call, is not the Gospel...

You shouldn't have an issue with an Altar Call that calls people forward to Confess Christ...

There it is again. An oracle from the "Book of Shoulds!

I have made my position on the modern day altar call clear, and why I hold that position. Never once have I said that there should never be an altar call. My reasons for my objections btw, were never discussed but remained absent as any part of the response to them. Not only do I believe they are valid---they are valid.

It is not Reformed that are giving altar calls----though it is possible that some Reformed churches do. It is Charismatics and the rest who also believe that salvation comes by a person choosing to believe. So, the modern day altar call in these churches----and of course I cannot speak to all of them so I speak from my own experience and what I have seen presented in the media---is not a call to public confession, but a call to choose and initiate salvation through that choice.

Doctrine not only matters, it shapes everything that comes after.

 

[ReverendRV]

There it is again. An oracle from the "Book of Shoulds!

I have made my position on the modern day altar call clear, and why I hold that position. Never once have I said that there should never be an altar call. My reasons for my objections btw, were never discussed but remained absent as any part of the response to them. Not only do I believe they are valid---they are valid.

It is not Reformed that are giving altar calls----though it is possible that some Reformed churches do. It is Charismatics and the rest who also believe that salvation comes by a person choosing to believe. So, the modern day altar call in these churches----and of course I cannot speak to all of them so I speak from my own experience and what I have seen presented in the media---is not a call to public confession, but a call to choose and initiate salvation through that choice.

Doctrine not only matters, it shapes everything that comes after.

Forgive me for not speaking about reasons not to have Altar Calls; I agree with them. I always think a Positive reason to have an Alter Call is good enough, even if there are ten Negative reasons; Negative reasons can't snuff out Positive reason...

Take a Risk, in Hope to win some...

 

[Arial]

Forgive me for not speaking about reasons not to have Altar Calls; I agree with them. I always think a Positive reason to have an Alter Call is good enough, even if there are ten Negative reasons; Negative reasons can't snuff out Positive reason...

Take a Risk, in Hope to win some...

Fair enough. I am sure if you give altar calls that Jesus Christ crucified and risen are preached beforehand.

But I did list some pretty serious negatives that have affected millions of believers and in fact are predominant in today's churches. I consider that a serious matter.

 

[ReverendRV]

Fair enough. I am sure if you give altar calls that Jesus Christ crucified and risen are preached beforehand.

But I did list some pretty serious negatives that have affected millions of believers and in fact are predominant in today's churches. I consider that a serious matter.

Would you say they were Agents of God's Reprobation?

 

[Arial]

Would you say they were Agents of God's Reprobation?

No. But I think that the human source behind there becoming rampant in the church, Charles Finney, opened a door to all sorts of false teachings and a church that is predominately weak. It lets the culture interpret or ignore the Bible. It has the gospel in places being reduced to nothing but moral teaching. Places here the supernatural in the Bible is no longer real but allegory. It has abandoned the teaching of sound doctrine and doing so has become something seen as unnecessary, even dangerous. It has in places embraced homosexuality or silenced all voices against it. Same with abortion. It lets the world dictate what is acceptable and good. It has so watered down Christianity that even Christians agree that you can be a Christian even if you deny the Trinity, Original Sin, the virgin birth, the substitutionary work of Christ. In fact, I have found on forums that there are those who have no idea what that substitutionary work is or what Jesus accomplished, and they don't care. He died on a cross and I invited him into my life as Lord so that paid for my sins. That's it. Etc. Etc. Etc.

That door was opened when Finney taught the ancient heresy that people can be enticed by methods to accept Jesus and no heart change by God was needed. To me, we have arrived at a place, and have been there for a long time when we can actually say of the church what Nehemiah said of Jerusalem. "Our walls are broken down and our gates are burned with fire."

Nevertheless, it would not be so had not God intended it to be so, and so it will serve its purpose. I just hope that purpose is not a winnowing. I do know from Scripture that everything that is built on a different foundation than the one the apostles laid will be burned up. The people will be saved (if they are genuinely saved and, just caught in a deception) but what they built will be burned up. We need to be building on the Rock.

 

[prism]

Take a Risk, in Hope to win some...

If God, through His Holy Spirit, has previously been convicting that person of their sins and has been revealing Jesus to them, how could 'taking a risk' through an altar call, add one iota to their being 'won' to Christ? Except maybe as a 'marker' of sorts?