• **Notifications**: Notifications can be dismissed by clicking on the "x" on the righthand side of the notice.
  • **New Style**: You can now change style options. Click on the paintbrush at the bottom of this page.
  • **Donations**: If the Lord leads you please consider helping with monthly costs and up keep on our Forum. Click on the Donate link In the top menu bar. Thanks
  • **New Blog section**: There is now a blog section. Check it out near the Private Debates forum or click on the Blog link in the top menu bar.
  • Welcome Visitors! Join us and be blessed while fellowshipping and celebrating our Glorious Salvation In Christ Jesus.

The Invitation System and the Altar Call

I did say this with the belief that @ReverendRV wasn't actually calling for a literal interpretation of the verse in any sort of universal context such as those specifically mentioned are in the habit of doing.

I was just pointing out what others do or don't do doesn't matter and doesn't change anything about our conduct or what is right for us to do or wrong.
As I said in the beginning of the Thread, If I had an Alter Call; I would use a Biblical one. Isaiah 55:1-3...

The Calvinist John Gill calls it an Alter Call...
 
I was baptized as a believer by immersion in a Wesleyan church after I left Mormonism. My Presbyterian neighbor back east was baptized in Southern Baptist church because they didn't accept her infant baptism.
 
As I said in the beginning of the Thread, If I had an Alter Call; I would use a Biblical one. Isaiah 55:1-3...

The Calvinist John Gill calls it an Alter Call...

My automatic is to stand with the nays in the sense that it's used today.

I would still stand by my revision from the initial absolute no, to an invitation more scriptural and more in accordance with our beliefs as I mentioned here:

A biblical approach might be a pastor, trusting God’s work (Romans 8:30), asking, “Has anyone, by God’s Spirit, crossed from death to life (John 5:24) and desires to confess Christ?” This invites public profession (Romans 10:9) without manipulating emotions, affirming regeneration’s fruit (Matthew 7:20). False altar calls exalt man; true calls exalt Christ’s sovereign grace.


However as a woman I think it's probably not my thoughts that matter...

I have a preference for the simple and honest though, not rehearsed or things.
 
Wait a minute---what is imperfect faith versus perfect faith?
For starters, no one has perfect faith, I.e. have you moved any mountains lately? And 1Jn 1:9.
Since no one has perfect faith, that leaves us all with imperfect faith (apart from the imputed righteousness of Christ).
 
Last edited:
For starters, no one has perfect faith, I.e. have you moved any mountains lately? And 1Jn 1:9.
Since no one has perfect faith, that leaves us all with imperfect faith (apart from the imputed righteousness of Christ).
Why mention imperfect faith? If God gives us faith so we can be saved, and every good and perfect gift is from above(James 1:17) would He give us imperfect faith? I'm finding thoughts that challenge my beliefs!
 
Why mention imperfect faith? If God gives us faith so we can be saved, and every good and perfect gift is from above(James 1:17) would He give us imperfect faith? I'm finding thoughts that challenge my beliefs!
Should I move a mountain or become a Christian?
 
would He give us imperfect faith?
The problem is not His gift but what remains in us...

Galatians 5:17 KJV
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Romans 7:18 KJV
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
 
The problem is not His gift but what remains in us...

Galatians 5:17 KJV
For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Romans 7:18 KJV
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
I know we aren't perfect, but I still believe faith that saves is perfect.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit." Romans 8:1

"But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His." Romans 8:9

"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28
 
What the unsaved and/or heretical do doesn't change our behavior in any direction. It's just about doing our best according to Scripture and ability and calling.
Did you think I was looking to cults for direction? I wasn't --- not for one second! Jesus never told us to do that! People might look at the posts before mine and realize what I'm responding to.
 
Did you think I was looking to cults for direction? I wasn't --- not for one second! Jesus never told us to do that! People might look at the posts before mine and realize what I'm responding to.

Jesus sent the disciples out "two by two" to share the Gospel with the lost:

Mark 6:7 "Calling the Twelve to him, he [Jesus] began to send them out two by two and gave them authority over impure spirits."

I do know exactly what post your responding to and the posts prior to that - I have a little reading comprehension most of the time anyway, praise God - and I believe my post was perfectly appropriate in response to what you said to a brother in Christ who paraphrased a Bible verse in Christian encouragement.

@ReverendRV used Biblical phrasing (from Luke and Mark) in order to express that we, as Calvinists, should share the Gospel - which we should do and do actually do .. (I have noted this myself from personal experience, despite apparent public opinion to the contrary).

There's nothing unbiblical about Christians sharing the Gospel - it's a command for the Church until the end of time.

This command doesn't change because of the mormons or what they do, we don't freak out because heretics do something the Bible calls for, we simply follow the command of God for us, that is found within the pages in accordance with reason.

Your suggestion to ignore Jesus sending His disciples out "two by two" to share the Gospel because the mormons have taken Bible verses to a crazy extreme is not looking to Scripture for Christian conduct - it's looking to mormons and saying we should ignore Scripture because that's what the mormons do. Islam proselytizes too, we don't stop just because others do what we do - they copied from us, not vice versa. In the what came first game it is definitely us. The Torah (also called the "Law") and the Prophets and my Lord absolutely came demonstrably first, prior to the false prophets and antichrists of our day.

Yes, @ReverendRV is a proponent of, at the end of the sermon on a Sunday, having a pastor calling people to the front to "accept Jesus" (or something - I have not actually seen this in person), this is called an alter call, and there's some differing opinions about just how biblical or effective the idea of this call is.

@Carbon set his foot down on the side of absolute no, never ever, @Arial pretty much the same, @Josheb and @ReverendRV are on the side of a more Biblical yes, with caveats.

I find myself too new a Christian to have a real opinion here though I would side with orthodoxy in the end, if called to set an opinion down in stone. There's a comfort in not confronting crazy and everything really is a slippery slope so I get the foot down dad moves even though done right it's not a horrible idea.

I like Paul Washer's opinion on the topic myself really, he had a good middle - on a rare occasion when moved by the Spirit absolutely yes, and otherwise and the way people like Graham does it absolutely not.

But I now digress... In short, @ReverendRV paraphrasing from Scripture to bring a point he was wanting to make forward is something real Christians do everyday, and "Mormon's and JW's" simply do not enter the equation, they weren't invited to the conversation in general and their behavior just doesn't even matter to the conversation, especially when the conversation is about our Christian conduct and what the Bible says.

He never once said " hey the mormons do this unbiblical thing so let's copy them..." Which your reaction would imply. Nope, that never happened.

All @ReverendRV referenced was a BIBLE verse...and you had an issue with God's word.
 
Last edited:
Jesus sent the disciples out "two by two" to share the Gospel with the lost:

Mark 6:7 "Calling the Twelve to him, he [Jesus] began to send them out two by two and gave them authority over impure spirits."

I do know exactly what post your responding to and the posts prior to that - I have a little reading comprehension most of the time anyway, praise God - and I believe my post was perfectly appropriate in response to what you said to a brother in Christ who paraphrased a Bible verse in Christian encouragement.

@ReverendRV used Biblical phrasing (from Luke and Mark) in order to express that we, as Calvinists, should share the Gospel - which we should do and do actually do .. (I have noted this myself from personal experience, despite apparent public opinion to the contrary).

There's nothing unbiblical about Christians sharing the Gospel - it's a command for the Church until the end of time.

This command doesn't change because of the mormons or what they do, we don't freak out because heretics do something the Bible calls for, we simply follow the command of God for us, that is found within the pages in accordance with reason.

Your suggestion to ignore Jesus sending His disciples out "two by two" to share the Gospel because the mormons have taken Bible verses to a crazy extreme is not looking to Scripture for Christian conduct - it's looking to mormons and saying we should ignore Scripture because that's what the mormons do. Islam proselytizes too, we don't stop just because others do what we do - they copied from us, not vice versa. In the what came first game it is definitely us. The Torah (also called the "Law") and the Prophets and my Lord absolutely came demonstrably first, prior to the false prophets and antichrists of our day.

Yes, @ReverendRV is a proponent of, at the end of the sermon on a Sunday, having a pastor calling people to the front to "accept Jesus" (or something - I have not actually seen this in person), this is called an alter call, and there's some differing opinions about just how biblical or effective the idea of this call is.

@Carbon set his foot down on the side of absolute no, never ever, @Arial pretty much the same, @Josheb and @ReverendRV are on the side of a more Biblical yes, with caveats.

I find myself too new a Christian to have a real opinion here though I would side with orthodoxy in the end, if called to set an opinion down in stone. There's a comfort in not confronting crazy and everything really is a slippery slope so I get the foot down dad moves even though done right it's not a horrible idea.

I like Paul Washer's opinion on the topic myself really, he had a good middle - on a rare occasion when moved by the Spirit absolutely yes, and otherwise and the way people like Graham does it absolutely not.

But I now digress... In short, @ReverendRV paraphrasing from Scripture to bring a point he was wanting to make forward is something real Christians do everyday, and "Mormon's and JW's" simply do not enter the equation, they weren't invited to the conversation in general and their behavior just doesn't even matter to the conversation, especially when the conversation is about our Christian conduct and what the Bible says.

He never once said " hey the mormons do this unbiblical thing so let's copy them..." Which your reaction would imply. Nope, that never happened.

All @ReverendRV referenced was a BIBLE verse...and you had an issue with God's word.

Oh, and I know I said I have never seen an alter call in person, though it is perhaps I have. I might be unclear on this point there was a thing that included being annointed with oil once ..

Not totally clear what that was exactly I don't suppose, but it was at the front of the church after services.

Not sure if that was an alter call but I don't think it was, it seemed different altogether with laying on of hands and oil and such rather after church for healing and an anointing of the Holy Spirit. (In my understanding).

Nothing to do with accepting Jesus or being saved though, it's why I said never seen one, but figured I would throw in a caveat in case I'm wrong... Lol.
 
Last edited:
As I said in the beginning of the Thread, If I had an Alter Call; I would use a Biblical one. Isaiah 55:1-3...

The Calvinist John Gill calls it an Alter Call...
I'd be surprised if John Gill called it that, because 1) it is called "Altar Call", not "alter Call", and 2) Gill lived many years before the idea of calling people to the front (what we mean by "Altar Call") came into use. The phenomena is thought to have come in with Finney in the 19th century, but the words only came into regular use in the 20th century.
 
Back
Top