The Invitation System and the Altar Call

[Josheb]

Your appealing to works,? Really?

Nope. Go back and re-read it again. Re-read it as many times as it takes to understand what was actually posted correctly. The point is Armstrong's and Hinn's appeal to works merit nothing.

 

[Josheb]

You have missed my point entirely or else you are simply engaging with red herrings.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Nope. Go back and re-read it again. Re-read it as many times as it takes to understand what was actually posted correctly. The point is Armstrong's and Hinn's appeal to works merit nothing.

I apologize for the misread, for real. Glad you didn't just lose your mind.. haha haha

Nah I'm just trying to say sure, but be biblical about it. Pretty sure we agree largely.

 

[Josheb]

I apologize for the misread, for real. Glad you didn't just lose your mind.. haha haha

Nah I'm just trying to say sure, but be biblical about it. Pretty sure we agree largely.

Hugs

 

[Arial]

Ugh. The mention of Sodom and Gomorrah are figures of speech referring to Judah and Jerusalem.

I disagree. The Isaiah 1 text may be exegeted ad nauseam (although I do not anything posted so far persuasive) to discard its salience as an example of invitation, but it is not the only text in the Bible where invitations to/for salvation are present. It is true the prophets and Jesus spoke overwhelmingly to and about those living within the Abrahamic covenant but because not all Israel is Israel there were always non-covenant people in those audiences.

You have missed my point entirely or else you are simply engaging with red herrings.

It was suggested that I explain this so I will. I shouldn't be necessary since in my posts #73,78 and 88 I made the direction of my posts clear. The content of post #88 was practically all ignored simply to reply with your post above. I saw no point in repeating myself, as it would do nothing constructive but only result in more defensive argument.

Each and every response you gave to my posts moved the conversation into irrelevant territory. First to covenant, a couple of times to simply denying that Is. 1 states it is being spoken to Judah and Jerusalem and insisting that no, it was written figuratively to Sodom and Gomorrah. Even after I pointed out that in the account of the judgement of S and G, there was given no call to repentance that we see in Is 1.

And all through every response the goal post was moved from the OP of modern day altar calls to simply a call through the preaching of the gospel, and to repentance. No distinction was made between an outward call and an inward call. It actually verged on an argument that would be presented by "free will choice" of whatever ilk.

I am not going to go back through your posts and quote every time you did this, as I am not interested in adding fuel to the fire resulting in a continued, fruitless blast of hot air in my face. Anyone who wishes to do so can but I strongly suspect there is not one single person who as the slightest inclination to do so.

I also suspect that the next thing that happens is my post will be reported for daring to oppose your manner of posting. Knock yourself out.

 

[Rescued One]

If they are regenerated, the new nature will abide in them and they will have no desire to take part in those things and yet...
Romans 4:5 KJV
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

I am a born-again Christian, not by works of righteousness which I have done! When the new birth occurs we are new creatures, and want to please God! Why are you suggesting that we go on walking in darkness and living in the old ways of the world? I didn't work to be saved. My works reflect the light of Christ!

Romans 8
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[Rescued One]

I am a born-again Christian, not by works of righteousness which I have done! When the new birth occurs we are new creatures, and want to please God! Why are you suggesting that we go on walking in darkness and living in the old ways of the world? I didn't work to be saved. My works reflect the light of Christ!

Romans 8
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

My point is that responding to an altar call can be for reasons other than having experienced the new birth.

 

[prism]

Why are you suggesting that we go on walking in darkness and living in the old ways of the world? I didn't work to be saved. My works reflect the light of Christ!

Where did I say any such thing? I said.."If they are regenerated, the new nature will abide in them and they will have no desire to take part in those things and yet"...
Romans 4:5 KJV
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Perhaps you are taking all this personal?

 

[Rescued One]

Where did I say any such thing? I said.."If they are regenerated, the new nature will abide in them and they will have no desire to take part in those things and yet"...
Romans 4:5 KJV
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Perhaps you are taking all this personal?

I'm not taking this as an insult. I know that ALL are sinners in need of salvation. I know thst God justifies the ungodly and when He regenerates us, He changes us. If we are going forward as a witness to others, they will see a change in our lives. If the change never occurs, neither did the supposed new birth.

 

[prism]

I'm not taking this as an insult. I know that ALL are sinners in need of salvation. I know thst God justifies the ungodly and when He regenerates us, He changes us. If we are going forward as a witness to others, they will see a change in our lives. If the change never occurs, neither did the supposed new birth.

How much change needs take place, before the 'new birth' is triggered or is verified?

And again, where did I suggest that we go on walking in darkness and living in the old ways of the world? (post #106)?

 

[prism]

My point is that responding to an altar call can be for reasons other than having experienced the new birth.

I concur, I received the new birth some 15 months before 'I went forward' (it wasn't even an altar call as we know it).
I'd view the new birth as conception and the 'altar call' as the delivery. Possibly happening simultaneously?

 

[Rescued One]

How much change needs take place, before the 'new birth' is triggered or is verified?

And again, where did I suggest that we go on walking in darkness and living in the old ways of the world? (post #106)?

I can't answer your first question as to quantity.

My fear of your suggestion was the boldness you highlighted with justifying the ungodly. God doesn't justify the ungodly and leave them in their present state. The people he saves are being conformed to the image of Christ. It bothers me that you don't mention that. He wouldn't bother to justify the ungodly and never make a change in their ungodly nature. Do you read about those who are going to hell? They have never changed from their ungodly ways as followers of Satan.

 

[Rescued One]

I concur, I received the new birth some 15 months before 'I went forward' (it wasn't even an altar call as we know it).
I'd view the new birth as conception and the 'altar call' as the delivery. Possibly happening simultaneously?

That sounds very strange.

 

[prism]

I can't answer your first question as to quantity.

My fear of your suggestion was the boldness you highlighted with justifying the ungodly. God doesn't justify the ungodly and leave them in their present state. The people he saves are being conformed to the image of Christ. It bothers me that you don't mention that. He wouldn't bother to justify the ungodly and never make a change in their ungodly nature. Do you read about those who are going to hell? They have never changed from their ungodly ways as followers of Satan.

He changes the justified, but it is not the change that justifies us, otherwise, we are mixing justification with sanctification.
Which is equivalent to mixing Law and Gospel.

 

[prism]

That sounds very strange.

Really?... Why?

 

[Rescued One]

That sounds very strange.

When one receives the new birth, he is saved.

 

[prism]

When one receives the new birth, he is saved.

Can a person receive the new birth without being forgiven? Or...
Does Jesus start something that he doesn't finish?

Philippians 1:6 KJV
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[ReverendRV]

Can a person receive the new birth without being forgiven? Or...
Does Jesus start something that he doesn't finish?

Philippians 1:6 KJV
Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Rescued One said:
When one receives the new birth, he is saved.

This would make a good Thread in it's own right...

I have my thoughts...

 

[Hazelelponi]

When one receives the new birth, he is saved.

Regeneration is the new birth. It precedes the faith event where you first actually believe.

For everyone it's different. For me I could point to potentially when I first decided I had to know why Christ had to die to forgive people.

Or I could point to the day my husband prayed over me. Everything really changed when he prayed over me. That was when my mind became clear and I could think everything through better.

Something happened that day. It was a big step forward anyway, though it was still a few years (or a couple years; within this time frame anyway) before I was actually "saved" (,ie: came to the moment of true faith).

That's all the brother is talking about.

 

[prism]

This would make a good Thread in it's own right...

I have my thoughts...

Listening...
I had forgotten @Rescued One had said, "When one receives the new birth, he is saved."
which would lead to my next question, "Can a person be saved, without being forgiven?".