The elephant named Trinity.~

[Rella]

There I said it. The T word that so many are afraid of.

Bringing y'all up to date.

I had made a reply to @grace2 , in https://christcentered.community.forum/threads/why-are-so-few-saved.1902/page-6#post-81223

(This BTW is an interesting read if you have not.)

And grace2 made the comments
"Roman institutions are nothing but political.

And their trait is still living vividly.

they are so political."

Most trin churches are involved in political matters."

I was guided to respond to that with

Good grief.... Do you even read a bible? Ever?

The Father of the only one you acknowledge.... The Father of Jesus said this....

Now I am going to post a list of translations of Romans 13:1..... and I suggest you check your bible to compare.

THERE IS NO ONE MORE POLITICAL... NO PERSON, PASTOR OR PRIEST.... OR CHURCH THAT IS MORE POLITICAL THEN JESUS' FATHER.

I dare not refer to Him other then that way because you will accuse me of claiming a duet if not a trinity.

I am certain you likely do not vote. I, for one, am glad. Why do I assume that... Because you dare not align yourself with
either a church you disprove of and maybe not even Jesus' Father.

KJV
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

NASB95
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.

AND I posted all translations that Bible Hub states, but not here due to length...

grace2 came back with

"Those verses don't advocate His people being political.

good grief, indeed."

I can only assume is their belief that If God states something we can just ignore it? The Father is political but we are not to be.....? I just really wonder how their God gets those people into position these days if people do not vote them in or out.

Twitching His nose? Or just pointing a finger to move more chess pieces in this game of humanity He created?

Yes, I know.. Rather facetious... but sometime is needed to make a point.

The point being that voting is the method God uses to put people in place in most areas today and therefore we automatically are involved in politics.

So enter now @Soldier of Christ1516 (Future reference will be SoC)

Who I quote.... BTW... everything is bolded now from here onand I cannot get it unbolded

Because Jesus says His Father is His God and our God.

"Concisely stated. Good to see others who can think through the inherently contradictory, idolatrous, 4th century manmade doctrine.

I tried to explain to @Rella the 3 most powerful arguments against it. Sadly, she said the debate was over when I presented the 2nd argument. LOL.

The OP question is above my pay grade. I’m content to know that few find the narrow road and rely on Roman’s 2 to question the implied premise of the question."
___________________________________________________


The debate was to prove why the Trinity is false based on the studies SoC has made.

The debate I closed because I asked a question that went unanswered
because my question was not following his debate rules.

This was my question and I still want any answer and I hope everyone who wants to will participate.

I asked this.

"Who was Jesus' Father?"

His answer was "Jesus Father is our Father, YHWH, the only true God."

This, of course is what we all believe....HOWEVER...............

Since there is no Trinity. according to SoC and There is no God the Holy Spirit according to SoC
that would mean that God YHWH used a surrogate and therefore that would make Jesus his adopted son.

And the one named in Matt 1:20 for that which is conceived in Mary is of the Holy Ghost.

and in Luke 1: 35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

But it was still the Holy spirit who SoC says is not God.

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

and in Luke 1: 35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

But it was still the Holy spirit who SoC says is not God.

A lot of meat in that OP bone Rella. That's meant to be a compliment.

It still seems the OP lacks a thesis statement but is more a stream of consciousness. So, I'm not sure how to address it all in an orderly way. Regarding my left ankle (Holy Spirit), I am not denying it exists. I'm only denying my left ankle (Holy Spirit) is a person of me who is a multi-person being.

I am a being who has attributes, including that of left ankle (Holy Spirit) but none of my attributes constitute a separate person. Are you picking up what I'm laying down?

 

[Rella]

A lot of meat in that OP bone Rella. That's meant to be a compliment.

It still seems the OP lacks a thesis statement but is more a stream of consciousness. So, I'm not sure how to address it all in an orderly way. Regarding my left ankle (Holy Spirit), I am not denying it exists. I'm only denying my left ankle (Holy Spirit) is a person of me who is a multi-person being.

I am a being who has attributes, including that of left ankle (Holy Spirit) but none of my attributes constitute a separate person. Are you picking up what I'm laying down?

Do you agree the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary....

And don't go the route she was not impregnated because Jesus in fact grew in her belly and she gave birth the same way most women do.
Cesarian was not available back then. And just because He did not have outdoor plumbing does not mean He did not get the jobn done.

So did He or did He not get her pregnant.

Am I getting what you are saying.

Yea if you will concede that your left ankle is the Holy Spirit, Christ Jesus is your heart , and God the Father is your brain.

3 distinctly separate parts of you all put together to make one of you.

 

[Arial]

and in Luke 1: 35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.

But it was still the Holy spirit who SoC says is not God.

Here is another point to drive home in that regard and speaks directly to the two natures of Jesus---the nature of God and the nature of man.

A father---be it of the animal or human species---fathers of the same essence (nature) as he himself is. So if God is Jesus' Father, then Jesus has the nature of His Father. A mother also brings forth a child who is of the same nature as she is. Since Mary is HIs mother, Jesus has the same nature as His mother. The Father is deity, the mother is human. Jesus has two distinct natures, and the two are not mixed together.

Another interesting thing is, that mankind is the only other creation created that bears the image and likeness of God. In that sense man is unique within creation. There is none like us in our finite world. God is unique period. There is none like Him. So how can a finite human stand here on earth, with finite knowledge, finite reasoning capacities, finite vision, and finite understanding, and say to God you cannot be triune?

And because of the above stated, the death of rams and goats and bulls, cannot be a sufficient substitute for the death of sinful man. And Jesus had to be human, to stand in the stead of the human transgressor. And He had to have the royalty, the intrinsic value in Himself to be that substitute. And that is something that is not in a creature, not even the highest of His creation, but can only be in one who is higher than the one being redeemed through that shed blood.

 

[Arial]

I am a being who has attributes, including that of left ankle (Holy Spirit) but none of my attributes constitute a separate person. Are you picking up what I'm laying down?

The problem with that analogy is that it is an analogy. There is nothing in all creation, this world, or any other world, that can be compared to God to any greater degree that a single drop of water can be compared to the ocean. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not attributes of God, they are God. The Father is not a head, the Son arms, and the Holy Spirit legs. They are identified in Scripture as divine, equal in essence which includes attributes (the things that make up the very character of God), and they are named within the actions they are shown as doing, particularly in redemption---which is the Bible story from beginning to end, without pause or break.

 

[grace2]

The problem with that analogy is that it is an analogy. There is nothing in all creation, this world, or any other world, that can be compared to God to any greater degree that a single drop of water can be compared to the ocean. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not attributes of God, they are God. The Father is not a head, the Son arms, and the Holy Spirit legs. They are identified in Scripture as divine, equal in essence which includes attributes (the things that make up the very character of God), and they are named within the actions they are shown as doing, particularly in redemption---which is the Bible story from beginning to end, without pause or break.

No matter how you name it, {edit by admin}

 

[grace2]

like the way OP explained his title.

They dont want to talk about it because they cannot explain it logically.

they cannot because it is a made-up doctrine.

I have debunked all the reasons they came up with.

 

[grace2]

I can only assume is their belief that If God states something we can just ignore it? The Father is political but we are not to be.....?

God and Jesus are not political.

If you are, you are not their servant.

What makes you think God is political?

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

So did He or did He not get her pregnant.

Jesus' dad is not called the Holy Spirit but Father. It's kind of like no father impregnates, only his "left ankle" does the actual impregnating.

Thinking of the HS as an actual person is the basic problem. My left ankle is not an actual separate person from me.

 

[Soldier of Christ1516]

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not attributes of God, they are God.

Anti-biblical. The Bible says, "For us, there is one God, the Father." Father and God are synonymous expressions.

Me and my son and left ankle and all our other many attributes are 2 people.

One way you know my left ankle is not a person is that it does not have a name; same with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Fred]

Thinking of the HS as an actual person is the basic problem. My left ankle is not an actual separate person from me.

The Holy Spirit spoke and used the pronouns "Me" and "I".

Acts 13:2
As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, Separate for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.


Your ankle is unable to do that.

 

[Rella]

like the way OP explained his title.

They dont want to talk about it because they cannot explain it logically.

they cannot because it is a made-up doctrine.

I have debunked all the reasons they came up with.

From Lucifers talking points?

 

[Rella]

God and Jesus are not political.

If you are, you are not their servant.

What makes you think God is political?

tOU WONT UNDERSTAND. GOD HAD HARDENED YOUR HEART TO UNDERSTANDING JUST LIKE PHAROE .

YOU CAN NOT READ, OR IF YOU CAN YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND.

IF GOD PUTS PEOPLE INTO OFFICE BECAUSE THEY ARE WHO HE WANTS... THAT IS POLITICAL. THAT IS BIBLICAL......

HOW DOES HE DO THAT?

HE MAKES PEOPLE VOTE THEM IN.

 

[Arial]

Anti-biblical. The Bible says, "For us, there is one God, the Father." Father and God are synonymous expressions.

Me and my son and left ankle and all our other many attributes are 2 people.

One way you know my left ankle is not a person is that it does not have a name; same with the Holy Spirit.

Why did you only address one sentence in my entire post and then repeat yourself? What you repeated couldn't have been repeated, if you had tried to do so within what my post said about it.

Our body parts are not attributes. An attribute is a quality, character or characteristic ascribed to someone or something. Our attributes are not our body parts. Analogies of God never even come close to describing God. They are too distant from who He is. There is nothing in our world that compares to Him.

 

[Rella]

Jesus' dad is not called the Holy Spirit but Father. It's kind of like no father impregnates, only his "left ankle" does the actual impregnating.

Thinking of the HS as an actual person is the basic problem. My left ankle is not an actual separate person from me.

But you are making my case.

Holy Spirit impregnated Mary but Jesus called YHWH Father.

That is because the Holy Spirit is the 3rd person in the Godhead.... equal to the father but with different

If the Holy Spirit was not one of the three then he would have been a surrogate....

But being one of the three is the tie that binds

 

[Fred]

The Bible says, "For us, there is one God, the Father." Father and God are synonymous expressions.

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we through Him.

Does this mean the Father is not the Lord of the Christian?

 

[grace2]

tOU WONT UNDERSTAND. GOD HAD HARDENED YOUR HEART TO UNDERSTANDING JUST LIKE PHAROE .

YOU CAN NOT READ, OR IF YOU CAN YOU CANNOT COMPREHEND.

IF GOD PUTS PEOPLE INTO OFFICE BECAUSE THEY ARE WHO HE WANTS... THAT IS POLITICAL. THAT IS BIBLICAL......

HOW DOES HE DO THAT?

HE MAKES PEOPLE VOTE THEM IN.

Is that supposed to be an insightful reply?

 

[grace2]

From Lucifers talking points?

bye, friend.

 

[Rella]

bye, friend.

Aint ignore wonderful

 

[grace2]

Aint ignore wonderful

this is insightful.