The Called !

[David1701]

Your original theme verse does. If there is no point or benefit in being called, then the only outcome we are interested in is being chosen, “many are called, but few are chosen.”

You appear to be conflating the outward and inwards calls. As long as this continues, you simply will not understand.

 

[EarlyActs]

You appear to be conflating the outward and inwards calls. As long as this continues, you simply will not understand.

Bc I don’t need to.

 

[David1701]

Bc I don’t need to.

You may not need to understand, but it certainly helps.

 

[EarlyActs]

You may not need to understand, but it certainly helps.

Can you give another example of where Jesus' word choice was so off that it needs our help? That's what seems to be going on here. I don't know what your obsession is--fav theology, ego, etc., but it seems that chosen was a perfectly clear alternative to called before anyone else came along.

 

[David1701]

Can you give another example of where Jesus' word choice was so off that it needs our help? That's what seems to be going on here. I don't know what your obsession is--fav theology, ego, etc., but it seems that chosen was a perfectly clear alternative to called before anyone else came along.

Chosen and called are absolutely not the same concept! Let's take an example scenario in which a coach picks a team from the available players, he then calls those he has chosen and says that they've been chosen for the team. It's very clear that being chosen and being called are different parts of the process. Choosing comes first, then calling those who have been chosen.

 

[EarlyActs]

Chosen and called are absolutely not the same concept! Let's take an example scenario in which a coach picks a team from the available players, he then calls those he has chosen and says that they've been chosen for the team. It's very clear that being chosen and being called are different parts of the process. Choosing comes first, then calling those who have been chosen.

We agree. You are unable to comprehend what you are reading. And since there is already a distinction between called and chosen, I do not need another nuance of called to mean chosen. That is what you are asking us to do.

 

[David1701]

We agree. You are unable to comprehend what you are reading. And since there is already a distinction between called and chosen, I do not need another nuance of called to mean chosen. That is what you are asking us to do.

No: you have that backwards. I am NOT asking anyone to think that called means chosen; in fact, my previous post made that very clear.

Since you are now deliberately misrepresenting me, I am going to end this conversation.

 

[brightfame52]

A Holy or sanctifying call to the elect !

There's a Holy call in time to them saved by the purpose of God, and given grace in Christ Jesus before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This calling is Holy and its effectual unto them being sanctified by the Spirit of God 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The word holy in 2 Tim 1:9 is the word hagios:

[40 (hágios) implies something "set apart" and therefore "different(distinguished/distinct)" – i.e. "other," because special to the Lord.

Now the word sanctification in 2 Thess 2:13 is also derived from hagios as it describes the setting apart unto Faith work of the Spirit. The objects are the special beloved of the Lord 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

The Spirit works as to set apart our hearts, minds wills and affections to embrace the truth of the Gospel of our Salvation. So its a Holy calling for a Holy set apart people unto the Lord. 14

 

[brightfame52]

@EarlyActs

Sorry but this kind of dispensationalism is worthless.

No its not, I dont believe in that.

 

[EarlyActs]

No: you have that backwards. I am NOT asking anyone to think that called means chosen; in fact, my previous post made that very clear.

Since you are now deliberately misrepresenting me, I am going to end this conversation.

You were explaining 2 senses/nuances of "called."

 

[David1701]

You were explaining 2 senses/nuances of "called."

Yes: inward/effectual (by the Holy Spirit) and outward/preaching, neither of which is the same as being chosen, especially since the choosing God did took place before the world was made.

 

[brightfame52]

The effectual call !

This call is what some call irresistible grace. The Bible teaches it right here 1 Pet 2:9

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

This call actually calls the chosen vessel of mercy, of the chosen generation, out of darkness into his marvellous light. It causes a complete transition out of darkness into light.

Paul wrote in a similar manner Acts 26:18

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

Col 1:13

Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

2 Thess 2:14

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. f

 

[brightfame52]

The effectual call isnt an offer, but its the effectual working of Gods power to take out of the world a people for His Name Sake, James mentions it Acts 15:13-18

13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:

14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

Please pay attention to the words in Vs 14 " to take out of them a people" thats not offering them Salvation, thats God effectual call via the preaching of the Gospel, Peter was first sent to them, Acts 10

The words to take out is the word λαμβάνω ἐκ:

to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own

1. to claim, procure, for one's self

1. to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self

Its the same word used when Paul said he was apprehended by Christ Phil 3:12

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

Thats describing Paul's effectual call,

and so certain Gentiles were effectually called out of the nations for Christs name sake.

 

[jeremiah1five]

All that is well and good, but there is only ONE "the called" in Scripture and they are the children of Israel, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham.

Abraham:
Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father’s house, unto a land that I will shew thee: Gen. 12:1.

Abraham is only one of many that were among the obedient to the Lord and who "called upon the LORD" (Gen. 4:26) which are terms describing worship. No man can worship unless called of God to do so and no man can worship God which strictly implies a relationship with God unless chosen. Psalm 65:4 states, "Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, And causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: We shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, Even of thy holy temple," clearly describing being "chosen," "called," and "worship" in [thy] courts/house/temple.

Isaac:
Here, in this passage Isaac builds an altar for the intent to worship the God of his father, Abraham, and was "chosen" and "caused" to come before God to do so.

24 And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham’s sake.
25 And he builded an altar there, and called upon the name of the LORD, and pitched his tent there: and there Isaac’s servants digged a well. Ge 26:23–25.

Jacob:
Here, the same implications apply to Jacob and the building of an altar to worship the God of his father, Isaac, and grandfather, Abraham.

24 And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham’s sake.
25 And he builded an altar there, and called upon the name of the LORD, and pitched his tent there: and there Isaac’s servants digged a well. Gen. 26:24–25.

We see God's covenant with Abraham being fulfilled as the promises and blessings are passed to the son and grandson, and soon to Jacob's twelve sons (Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin) thus establishing a covenant by God and with a particular family line. This will continue throughout the bible with each son in what God described as the beginning of a "thousand generations" of Hebrews begun through Abraham and his niece, Sarai (Sarah.)

9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations; Deut. 7:9.

Whether you want to take "thousand generations" as literal or figurative, what is being said here is that the Abrahamic Covenant is between God and the offspring of Abraham forever. Also note that this covenant is with the Hebrews and NOT "non-Hebrews" or Gentiles. And by the time Jesus Messiah is crucified, died, and resurrected for the Hebrews as per prophecy and covenant only a dozen or more "generations" have been born meaning that when we come to the present time the "generations" of Abraham's offspring would be well from a "thousand" generations of offspring ordained by God in Deuteronomy 7:9.

 

[Mr GLee]

Whether you want to take "thousand generations" as literal or figurative, what is being said here is that the Abrahamic Covenant is between God and the offspring of Abraham forever. Also note that this covenant is with the Hebrews and NOT "non-Hebrews" or Gentiles. And by the time Jesus Messiah is crucified, died, and resurrected for the Hebrews as per prophecy and covenant only a dozen or more "generations" have been born meaning that when we come to the present time the "generations" of Abraham's offspring would be well from a "thousand" generations of offspring ordained by God in Deuteronomy 7:9.

Generation = beginning (genesis)

It must be used as metaphor, a parable. Remember without parable Christ spoke not. . hiding the unseen gospel spiritual understanding from dying mankind

A thousand literal (25,000 AD) . 25years, generation of men,

Called the evil generation or generation of Adam.. . natural unredeemed mankind .

The generation of Christ. The born again seed representing the second birth is used to represent our new birth. The seed Christ beginning with Abel destroyed by the father of lies .God replaced him with Seth .That generation was fulfilled at the birth. of the Son of man Jesus

Luke 3: 38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God

All Israel is not born agin Israel some remained under Jacob (the deceiver) or a outward Jew according to dying flesh and blood Which Jesus said of his own dying flesh it does not profit for anything, zip, nada, zero .

Christ the one seed. In Isaiah 62 as our invisible head promise and to renamed his bride in respect to all the nations of the world gave her a new name . . .Christian ) .residents of the heavenly city prepared for his bride the church,

A more befitting name to name the bride of all nations .

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

All that is well and good, but there is only ONE "the called" in Scripture and they are the children of Israel, Jacob, Isaac, and Abraham.

Thats the Church, the Body of Christ. Do you know what the word church means ?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Generation = beginning (genesis)

It must be used as metaphor, a parable. Remember without parable Christ spoke not. . hiding the unseen gospel spiritual understanding from dying mankind

A thousand literal (25,000 AD) . 25years, generation of men,

Called the evil generation or generation of Adam.. . natural unredeemed mankind .

The generation of Christ. The born again seed representing the second birth is used to represent our new birth. The seed Christ beginning with Abel destroyed by the father of lies .God replaced him with Seth .That generation was fulfilled at the birth. of the Son of man Jesus

Luke 3: 38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God

All Israel is not born agin Israel some remained under Jacob (the deceiver) or a outward Jew according to dying flesh and blood Which Jesus said of his own dying flesh it does not profit for anything, zip, nada, zero .

Christ the one seed. In Isaiah 62 as our invisible head promise and to renamed his bride in respect to all the nations of the world gave her a new name . . .Christian ) .residents of the heavenly city prepared for his bride the church,

A more befitting name to name the bride of all nations .

Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken," and having said that, Scripture also reveals God is betrothed to Israel:

19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever;
Yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment,
And in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:
And thou shalt know the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day,
I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens,
And they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil;
And they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth;
And I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy;
And I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people;
And they shall say, Thou art my God.
Hosea 2:19–23.

Why do you oppose God?
God is not an adulterer. He is betrothed to Israel and is under covenant to her and her alone. To teach God is betrothed to marry Gentiles is to teach God is an adulterer to have two wives, one in covenant and one outside or without covenant (Gentiles.)
But the Constantinian Gentile theology is so ingrained in Gentile minds that they would twist and teach a God that fornicates and is an adulterer to Israel. Is that what you are saying? Is that what you are teaching.
Accept the Word of God. Believe it for God is true and all men are liars.

 

[jeremiah1five]

@jeremiah1five



Thats the Church, the Body of Christ. Do you know what the word church means ?

It means "called out" from the Greek word "ekklesia" and it applies to Israel for God as promised to Abraham "called out" His people the children of Israel out of Egypt. It also applies to Jesus Christ, who as a baby was called out of Egypt after those that sought His death had died.

God called out Abram the Hebrew and made covenant with him and his seed. The inheritance of Abraham's covenant and promises passed to Isaac, then to Jacob, and Jacob's children also known as the twelve tribes of Israel or as commonly called today: the Jews.
Have I said anything not bible?

 

[brightfame52]

@jeremiah1five

It means "called out

Bingo, and the Church which belongs to Christ is called what here Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs

 

[Mr GLee]

Jesus said, "Scripture cannot be broken," and having said that, Scripture also reveals God is betrothed to Israel:

19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever;
Yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment,
And in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:
And thou shalt know the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day,
I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens,
And they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil;
And they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth;
And I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy;
And I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people;
And they shall say, Thou art my God.
Hosea 2:19–23.

Why do you oppose God?
God is not an adulterer. He is betrothed to Israel and is under covenant to her and her alone. To teach God is betrothed to marry Gentiles is to teach God is an adulterer to have two wives, one in covenant and one outside or without covenant (Gentiles.)
But the Constantinian Gentile theology is so ingrained in Gentile minds that they would twist and teach a God that fornicates and is an adulterer to Israel. Is that what you are saying? Is that what you are teaching.
Accept the Word of God. Believe it for God is true and all men are liars.

Which Israel divorced? What kind of Jew outwardly??

I hope I am not opposing eternal God who not a man( dying mankind) . God is not a Jewish man as King of kings . The vail was rent there was no Jewish man as king of kings sitting in the holy of holies . . .Satan fell no longer able to deceive all the nations the whole word that God is a Jewish man as King of kings

As it seems. Why do you appose the armor of God, the King of kings ?