The Battle of Armageddon

[eclipseEventSigns]

You are totally missing the point.

If (A) is equal to (B), and (B) is equal to (C), then (A) is equal to (C) also.

If (A) Mystery Babylon is called "that great city" in Revelation 17:18, and (B) "the great city" in Revelation 11:8 is said to be (C) where our Lord was crucified, which we all know was the city of Jerusalem, then (A) Mystery Babylon is equal to (C) Jerusalem also.

There's many "great cities". Your is a very shallow and simple view.

 

[Mr GLee]

Got scripture for that?

Thanks ..I can offer a few

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

The lust of the flesh (touch), and the lust of the eyes (see) the two building blocks to false pride

Satan tried to pull that off with Jesus in the beginning of the ministry of two. The Father working in the son of man Jesus . Jesus weak having not eatn 40 days . . . Satan sent a delusion as false prophecy.promising him all the glory of all the kingdoms of the world

Jesus strengthened by the Father the Father gave the Son of man Jesus the prophet words to rebuke the father of lies, Three times as it is writen ad again an again as it is writen strike three your out. . LOL

Mathew 4:8-10 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

John 12:31
Now judgment is upon this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.

John 16:8-11
And he, when he comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see me; and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

Cast out and judged. What kind of "god" is that?

The kind that cast out the father of lies. The god of this world system.

 

[3 Resurrections]

There's many "great cities". Your is a very shallow and simple view.

But there is only ONE "great city" found in Revelation. According to the context of the book, we need to follow John's comparison of Mystery Babylon "that great city" with "the great city" of Jerusalem where our Lord was crucified. If this isn't complicated enough for you, then that's too bad. God often hides things from the wise and prudent and reveals them unto babes.

 

[EarlyActs]

You are totally missing the point.

If (A) is equal to (B), and (B) is equal to (C), then (A) is equal to (C) also.

If (A) Mystery Babylon is called "that great city" in Revelation 17:18, and (B) "the great city" in Revelation 11:8 is said to be (C) where our Lord was crucified, which we all know was the city of Jerusalem, then (A) Mystery Babylon is equal to (C) Jerusalem also.

Yes, I think the material is very Judean oriented until late in the book; kind of like Mt 24/Mk 13/Lk 21.

 

[Josheb]

Your question are not relevant.

Yes, they are, and if you think otherwise the onus is on you, not me, to prove it. You were the one who wrote Post #115.

Closed minds just don't get it.

Then open your mind.

Jerusalem is NEVER called Babylon. Never.

Okay . I'll entertain that claim for the time being. If that is the case.....


To what then do the six mentions of Babylon in Revelation refer?

Why is there a need for a new Jerusalem?


Please answer the questions asked.

 

[Josheb]

Thanks ..I can offer a few

2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

I addressed that verse before you posted it. According to all those many verses I posted, multiple verses that range from the prophet Isaiah to the apostle Paul in Romans (the chronological last of his first batch of epistles) the god of the world that blinds is God, not Satan. 2 Co. 4:3 does not actually mention Satan.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

No mention of any god. No mention of Satan.

The lust of the flesh (touch), and the lust of the eyes (see) the two building blocks to false pride

No mention of any god. No mention of Satan.

Satan tried to pull that off with Jesus..

That is not a point in dispute. What is disputed is the claim Satan is the god of this world that blinds. The reason I am asking about this is because elsewhere scripture repeatedly and both explicitly and implicitly reports God being the God that blinds, not Satan.

Mathew 4:8-10 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain...

Not once did he blind Jesus.

Satan is not a god. Satan is not a god said to blind. God, however, is God and God of all that He has created, and He is often said to blind, confound, confuse, and prevent. Satan is a problem n the gospels but after Calvary the three greatest obstacles to God are 1) God Himself, 2) the human flesh and the conditions of the sinful world, and 3) Satan. Satan is the least powerful of the three! Sin kills. It killed Satan. He is just as big a sinner as any human and just as dead and enslaved. He is not god of anything. There is only one God.

Isaiah 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is no one else; There is no God except Me.
1 John 3:8
The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.

I respectfully submit the "g" in 2 Corinthians 2:3's "god" should be capitalized, and the verse not read as a reference to Satan, but God.

 

[Mr GLee]

I addressed that verse before you posted it. According to all those many verses I posted, multiple verses that range from the prophet Isaiah to the apostle Paul in Romans (the chronological last of his first batch of epistles) the god of the world that blinds is God, not Satan. 2 Co. 4:3 does not actually mention Satan.

Small case god of this world. Them which believe not the glorious light of Christ. Christ is the god of this world.

Now sure how you got god of this world in eternal God. He is the God of the world to come dwelling in his ambassador on earth not of this world system

1 Corithians 4:3-4 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the "god of this world" hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

No mention of any god. No mention of Satan.

It does mention our Father excluding the possibility of the god of this world.. . the other god the counterfeit

That is not a point in dispute. What is disputed is the claim Satan is the god of this world that blinds. The reason I am asking about this is because elsewhere scripture repeatedly and both explicitly and implicitly reports God being the God that blinds, not Satan.

The God of scripture reveals what is in the darkens. unlike legion the spirit of error blinds the mind of unbelievers.

Not once did he blind Jesus.

Satan is not a god. Satan is not a god said to blind. God, however, is God and God of all that He has created, and He is often said to blind, confound, confuse, and prevent. Satan is a problem n the gospels but after Calvary the three greatest obstacles to God are 1) God Himself, 2) the human flesh and the conditions of the sinful world, and 3) Satan. Satan is the least powerful of the three! Sin kills. It killed Satan. He is just as big a sinner as any human and just as dead and enslaved. He is not god of anything. There is only one God.

Thats not how the world blind is used. Jesus is not the blind leader of the blind. Again, the Spirit of Christ illuminates.

Matthew 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch

There must be a reason you think Satan is not the god of this world.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

But there is only ONE "great city" found in Revelation. According to the context of the book, we need to follow John's comparison of Mystery Babylon "that great city" with "the great city" of Jerusalem where our Lord was crucified. If this isn't complicated enough for you, then that's too bad. God often hides things from the wise and prudent and reveals them unto babes.

Exactly. The mystery is what is Babylon. It was a MYSTERY. Jerusalem is not a mystery. It actually existed at that time. Mystery Babylon did not. Otherwise it would not be a mystery. But then I'm not as wise as you seem to be.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Yes, they are, and if you think otherwise the onus is on you, not me, to prove it. You were the one who wrote Post #115.

Then open your mind.

Okay . I'll entertain that claim for the time being. If that is the case.....


To what then do the six mentions of Babylon in Revelation refer?

Why is there a need for a new Jerusalem?


Please answer the questions asked.

Not interested in conversing with people who demonstrate such closed minds. It's not worth the time and effort.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Exactly. The mystery is what is Babylon. It was a MYSTERY. Jerusalem is not a mystery. It actually existed at that time. Mystery Babylon did not. Otherwise it would not be a mystery. But then I'm not as wise as you seem to be.

But the angel explained to John what Mystery Babylon was. In Revelation 17:7-18. "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her..." John was enlightened as to what this mystery portrayed. That means it was not an unknown mystery to John anymore. We today are not entitled to our own definitions of Mystery Babylon.

Mystery Babylon had existed for a long time before John wrote Revelation, because the harlot was depicted as being drunk with the blood of the saints which had been shed by martyrdom (Revelation 18:24 - "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.")

Jesus once said the same thing in Matthew 23:37 about Old Jerusalem - that she was guilty of the shed blood of the prophets and messengers sent to her from God. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee..." All of the righteous blood shed upon the earth from Abel onward was going to be charged to that first-century generation of Israelites, and Jerusalem in particular.

Mystery Babylon "that great city" of Jerusalem was guilty of all that shed blood of the righteous. This is not an unknown mystery.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

But the angel explained to John what Mystery Babylon was. In Revelation 17:7-18. "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her..." John was enlightened as to what this mystery portrayed. That means it was not an unknown mystery to John anymore. We today are not entitled to our own definitions of Mystery Babylon.

Mystery Babylon had existed for a long time before John wrote Revelation, because the harlot was depicted as being drunk with the blood of the saints which had been shed by martyrdom (Revelation 18:24 - "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.")

Jesus once said the same thing in Matthew 23:37 about Old Jerusalem - that she was guilty of the shed blood of the prophets and messengers sent to her from God. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee..." All of the righteous blood shed upon the earth from Abel onward was going to be charged to that first-century generation of Israelites, and Jerusalem in particular.

Mystery Babylon "that great city" of Jerusalem was guilty of all that shed blood of the righteous. This is not an unknown mystery.

Yup, the angel did explain who Mystery Babylon was. But that doesn't mean it existed then. That is the whole point of a MYSTERY.

 

[Josheb]

Yup, the angel did explain who Mystery Babylon was. But that doesn't mean it existed then. That is the whole point of a MYSTERY.

?????

No.


It would make no sense to explain anything to John if it did not matter to John. Explaining non-existent things to John that would have absolutely no bearing on John's life makes both the explanation and the scripture meaningless to John (and his first century audience). It violates one of the most basic precepts in exegesis: first understand the text as the original author and his original first century audience would have understood it! It also goes against the New Testament precedent where all the mysteries where revealed to exist in the NT era.

Matthew 13:11
Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Romans 11:25-26
For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written...

Romans 16:25-26
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

1 Corinthians 2:6-7
Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

1 Corinthians 4:1
Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Colossians 1:25-27
Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Colossians 2:1-2
For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally seen my face, that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself,

2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

1 Timothy 3:16
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Revelation 1:20
As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Revelation 10:7
...but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.


That is just a sampling of the NT's use of mystery. They uniformly speak of the mystery revealed and explained, and existing at the time the explanation occurred. You would have us believe this Revelation mention stands in complete distinction from all the other NT precedents, even though Revelation explicitly states,

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Revelation 1:19
Therefore, write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.

Most of Revelation had either already occurred or was occurring at the time it was revealed to John and what remained "after these things" was near.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

?????

No.


It would make no sense to explain anything to John if it did not matter to John. Explaining non-existent things to John that would have absolutely no bearing on John's life makes both the explanation and the scripture meaningless to John (and his first century audience). It violates one of the most basic precepts in exegesis: first understand the text as the original author and his original first century audience would have understood it! It also goes against the New Testament precedent where all the mysteries where revealed to exist in the NT era.

Matthew 13:11
Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Romans 11:25-26
For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written...

Romans 16:25-26
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

1 Corinthians 2:6-7
Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

1 Corinthians 4:1
Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Colossians 1:25-27
Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Colossians 2:1-2
For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally seen my face, that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself,

2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

1 Timothy 3:16
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Revelation 1:20
As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Revelation 10:7
...but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.


That is just a sampling of the NT's use of mystery. They uniformly speak of the mystery revealed and explained, and existing at the time the explanation occurred. You would have us believe this Revelation mention stands in complete distinction from all the other NT precedents, even though Revelation explicitly states,

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Revelation 1:19
Therefore, write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.

Most of Revelation had either already occurred or was occurring at the time it was revealed to John and what remained "after these things" was near.

Your assumptions of the use of the word is totally wrong.

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

?????

No.


It would make no sense to explain anything to John if it did not matter to John. Explaining non-existent things to John that would have absolutely no bearing on John's life makes both the explanation and the scripture meaningless to John (and his first century audience). It violates one of the most basic precepts in exegesis: first understand the text as the original author and his original first century audience would have understood it! It also goes against the New Testament precedent where all the mysteries where revealed to exist in the NT era.

Matthew 13:11
Jesus answered them, "To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted.

Romans 11:25-26
For I do not want you, brethren, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved; just as it is written...

Romans 16:25-26
Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations, leading to obedience of faith;

1 Corinthians 2:6-7
Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory;

1 Corinthians 4:1
Let a man regard us in this manner, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Colossians 1:25-27
Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God, that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested to His saints, to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

Colossians 2:1-2
For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally seen my face, that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God's mystery, that is, Christ Himself,

2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way.

1 Timothy 3:16
By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

Revelation 1:20
As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.

Revelation 10:7
...but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.


That is just a sampling of the NT's use of mystery. They uniformly speak of the mystery revealed and explained, and existing at the time the explanation occurred. You would have us believe this Revelation mention stands in complete distinction from all the other NT precedents, even though Revelation explicitly states,

Revelation 1:3
Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Revelation 1:19
Therefore, write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.

Most of Revelation had either already occurred or was occurring at the time it was revealed to John and what remained "after these things" was near.

It is no wonder people have such a faulty view of prophecy and what's in store when they can't even get the meaning of the words right.

 

[Ghada]

The Bible puts the Battle of Armageddon before the New Jerusalem comes down as Revelation is clear that is when the wicked meet their end in the Lake of Fire.

Actually, only the beast and false prophet go straight to the lake of fire. The rest go to hell and await their turn at the end of the Lord's rule on earth.

New Jerusalem only comes down on the new earth, not this old one.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Since the great plagues from the Lord only begin after He resurrects His saints into the air with Him, then I like to think of this as the Lord's prepping bombardment prior to battle. And perhaps the resurrected saints are doing the casting of the hail.

Sort of like the Lord's thunderbolts to earth.

How he had wrought his signs in Egypt, and his wonders in the field of Zoan: He gave up their cattle also to the hail, and their flocks to hot thunderbolts.

Afterall, Jerusalem's heart of Judea at the time will be spiritual as Sodom and Egypt.

 

[Hobie]

But there is only ONE "great city" found in Revelation. According to the context of the book, we need to follow John's comparison of Mystery Babylon "that great city" with "the great city" of Jerusalem where our Lord was crucified. If this isn't complicated enough for you, then that's too bad. God often hides things from the wise and prudent and reveals them unto babes.

Think you need to read what scripture has...
Revelation 14:8
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Revelation 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Revelation 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Revelation 18:10
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Revelation 18:21
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

 

[3 Resurrections]

Think you need to read what scripture has...
Revelation 14:8
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Revelation 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Revelation 18:2
And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Revelation 18:10
Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

Revelation 18:21
And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

ALL of these texts refer to Old Jerusalem, "that great city" and her AD 66-70 destruction period called the "Great Tribulation".

 

[Hobie]

But the angel explained to John what Mystery Babylon was. In Revelation 17:7-18. "And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her..." John was enlightened as to what this mystery portrayed. That means it was not an unknown mystery to John anymore. We today are not entitled to our own definitions of Mystery Babylon.

Mystery Babylon had existed for a long time before John wrote Revelation, because the harlot was depicted as being drunk with the blood of the saints which had been shed by martyrdom (Revelation 18:24 - "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.")

Jesus once said the same thing in Matthew 23:37 about Old Jerusalem - that she was guilty of the shed blood of the prophets and messengers sent to her from God. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee..." All of the righteous blood shed upon the earth from Abel onward was going to be charged to that first-century generation of Israelites, and Jerusalem in particular.

Mystery Babylon "that great city" of Jerusalem was guilty of all that shed blood of the righteous. This is not an unknown mystery.

He made clear it was a corrupted church (woman) which we persecuted the saints as we see in history as the church of Rome...

 

[eclipseEventSigns]

Amazing. The word "mystery" is used because it did NOT exist yet in that time. THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT.

 

[3 Resurrections]

He made clear it was a corrupted church (woman) which we persecuted the saints as we see in history as the church of Rome...

John made it clear in Rev. 17:18 that the woman Mystery Babylon was "that great city" - the very same "the great city... where also our Lord was crucified" in Rev. 11:8.

Christ was not crucified in Rome. That means Mystery Babylon "the great city" was Old Jerusalem, whom Christ had already accused of the blood guilt of the prophets and servants of God, and of all slain upon the earth from Abel to Zechariah. Old Jerusalem was drunk with the blood of the prophets and those sent unto her throughout the ages, long before the city of Rome developed on the Tiber River. This persecution and murder of the prophets was such a prevalent problem with Jerusalem that Christ had once said in Luke 13:33, "It is impossible that a prophet should perish outside of Jerusalem".

Your have an obsession with all things RCC. It's like the saying goes, "If you are a hammer, everything looks like a nail." While guilty of many sins in past history, the RCC is not the fulfillment of everything prophetic.