THE ANGELS THAT SINNED

[Red Baker]

jeremiah 1 five~The word "good" in Genesis means "good" [enough] or "to specification. Like a job well done, done good to specifications. If you want the other
word that describes morally "good" it's not in the creation narrative. And if you think it means morally "good" I suppose the herbs and grass have morals, too.

Good ~includes created after the image of God! I think that is more than just having morals! Certainly much higher than other of God's creation.

jeremiah 1 five~ There is no distinction between the Law(s) of God and His Commands. The Law of God are His Commands and the Commands of God are Law. And the Law/Command shows us men from Adam forward that we are ALL sinners. And the Command/Law of God was in the Garden showing through the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil God's purpose to show man/Adam he was evil and sinful:

No one is arguing that man is not sinful from Adam on~but Adam was not created sinful, but after the very image of God Himself~in holiness, knowledge, and understanding. This is what you disagree with.

jeremiah 1 five~

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. Rom. 7:7.

Adam: "I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known disobedience, except the law had said, Thou shalt not [eat of it.]"

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Rom. 7:9–13.

Again, sir, These scriptures quoted by Paul applies "only" to a regenerate child of God who alone seeks to please God yet he finds in his members SIN which is in every acts of OBEDIENCE causing thsi holy man of God to cry out:

"O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

Sir, no unregenerate man see God's law as holy, good and spiritual..... impossible! Only spiritual minded children of God can say what Paul said in Romans 7. We truly do not think Adam ever experienced this since his knowledge concerning spiritual truths was limited due to his fall, and even afterwards, he could have never experienced this WITHOUT having a relationship with Jesus Christ as NT saints can experience by knowing the perfect holy Son of God, and living by HIS FAITH (that's Christ's). Another subject for another day.

jeremiah1five~​

How can they be holy when Holiness is the Nature of God? De He reduplicate or copy or mimic His Nature in a created being? Christ was Holy and one is Holy ONE DOES NOT SIN. So, who's in error in their understanding here? Me? No, it's YOU.

Again, they were created after God's image~I did not write or say it~God did. As far as creating them in holiness, with knowledge and understanding, yes they were after God's image, they just did not possess the "infinite" attributes of the Godhead. God's word will determined who is holding a lie, or, who has the truth.

jeremiah1five~​

Hell is the grave. Unseen. Darkness. And the angels that sinned are cast down to hell and in chains. There is no pardon, no release, nothing. chains.

Hell is used in different senses, and yes one of them is the grave, but certainly not limited to the grave. There's a hellfire, which is the second death; there is hell from which we can saved our children from~Proverbs 23:14.

Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.​

What is the salvation from hell in this proverb? This cannot literally mean the lake of fire, or eternal life would depend on child discipline, not the grace of God. But hell is also used metaphorically for trouble, destruction, and death (Ps 16:10; 18:5; 86:13; 116:3; Is 5:14; 28:15; Jonah 2:2). Here is a dysfunctional and troubled life leading to a premature death, either by accident, crime, revenge, or capital punishment. A salvation indeed!

I explained hell in 2nd Peter to mean a place where fallen angels will never escape from, they are forever under this chains of darkness and deception in which they are now living under.

You need to practice 2nd Timothy 2:15 and save yourself from being put to shame by those men who do practice 2nd Timothy 2:15; Nehemiah 8:8; etc.

I must run for appointment, maybe later.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Good ~includes created after the image of God! I think that is more than just having morals! Certainly much higher than other of God's creation.

Strong's defines the word "good" as:

a primitive root, to be (transitive do or make) good (or well) in the widest sense.

As you can see the word merely means something done "well." It also means in other words "good" [enough] and/or "to specification." It is translated in the KJV as follows:


English Words used in KJV:
well 10
good 9
please 6
goodly 2
better 2
cheer 1
comely 1
do 1

Now how do you get "holy" from this word? It's not there so methinks thou shouldest study this word carefully because there is no way anyone can make it say "holy."

And your statement that man [is] "certainly much higher than other of God's creation is also in error:

4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him?
And the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,
Ps 8:4–5.

LOWER, not higher.

No one is arguing that man is not sinful from Adam on~but Adam was not created sinful, but after the very image of God Himself~in holiness, knowledge, and understanding. This is what you disagree with.

Yes I do for holy does not sin. The second Adam who IS HOLY did not sin.
Sin comes from sinner. This is not hard to understand.

Again, sir, These scriptures quoted by Paul applies "only" to a regenerate child of God who alone seeks to please God yet he finds in his members SIN which is in every acts of OBEDIENCE causing thsi holy man of God to cry out:
"O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

I understand that but you're missing his point. The Law shows us we are sinners. And the Law was in the Garden BEFORE Adam sinned showing that he was indeed a sinner BEFORE he sinned.

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: Gen. 2:17.

But because he was a sinner he sinned. Sin comes from sinner. Sin does not come from holy.

Sir, no unregenerate man see God's law as holy, good and spiritual..... impossible! Only spiritual minded children of God can say what Paul said in Romans 7. We truly do not think Adam ever experienced this since his knowledge concerning spiritual truths was limited due to his fall, and even afterwards, he could have never experienced this WITHOUT having a relationship with Jesus Christ as NT saints can experience by knowing the perfect holy Son of God, and living by HIS FAITH (that's Christ's). Another subject for another day.

Adam had relationship with God on a very personal level. Adam was a sinner but there was no way to prove to him his created make-up of a being who was created "fallen short of the glory of God." Adam was created "missing the mark" of the glory that is God. The Greek word is "harmatia" and it is translated as "sin" in the KJV.
After Adam proved his sinfulness by sinning and received the KNOWLEDGE of his sinfulness the relationship between God and he changed. Let's say Adam was created sinful but didn't know this because up until Genesis 2:17 there is no command of God against something or any restriction for Adam to follow. BUT when the commandment came sin revived and by it slew Adam.

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Rom. 7:9–13.

Do you understand this?

Again, they were created after God's image~I did not write or say it~God did. As far as creating them in holiness, with knowledge and understanding, yes they were after God's image, they just did not possess the "infinite" attributes of the Godhead. God's word will determined who is holding a lie, or, who has the truth.

The image of God is not an earthy man, but a heavenly Son of God. HE is the image of God His Father.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; Col 1:19.

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Cor. 4:4.

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:15.

Christ is the image of God and there is no better image of a Holy Father than a Holy Son.

Hell is used in different senses, and yes one of them is the grave, but certainly not limited to the grave. There's a hellfire, which is the second death; there is hell from which we can saved our children from~Proverbs 23:14.

Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.​

What is the salvation from hell in this proverb? This cannot literally mean the lake of fire, or eternal life would depend on child discipline, not the grace of God. But hell is also used metaphorically for trouble, destruction, and death (Ps 16:10; 18:5; 86:13; 116:3; Is 5:14; 28:15; Jonah 2:2). Here is a dysfunctional and troubled life leading to a premature death, either by accident, crime, revenge, or capital punishment. A salvation indeed!

There is no "premature death" in creation. It is APPOINTED unto man once to die and then the judgment. Another error in your thinking.

I explained hell in 2nd Peter to mean a place where fallen angels will never escape from, they are forever under this chains of darkness and deception in which they are now living under.

There you go. The angels that sinned are ALL locked up and cannot roam around the earth. They are ALL locked up. And God sent them there in the time frame between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

You need to practice 2nd Timothy 2:15 and save yourself from being put to shame by those men who do practice 2nd Timothy 2:15; Nehemiah 8:8; etc.
I must run for appointment, maybe later.

Been there, done that.
Drive safe.

 

[Red Baker]

jeremiah1five~Now how do you get "holy" from this word? It's not there so methinks thou shouldest study this word carefully because there is no way anyone can make it say "holy."​

Sir, that's very easy by believing the holy scriptures just as it is written, something you are having a hard time doing.

Genesis 1:27-31~"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, BEHOLD, IT WAS VERY GOOD. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Adam and Eve both were created in God's image, I did not write this, Moses did, because he was moved by the Holy Ghost to record this for all generations to read, and believe that all God has done in creations including man was not good, but very good~because they had God's image of Holiness, wisdom and knowledge and understanding. ALL they needed to be perfectly happy, and contented, living in perfect fellowship with God.

jeremiah1five~And your statement that man [is] "certainly much higher than other of God's creation is also in error:

4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him?
And the son of man, that thou visitest him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels,

Of course I was speaking of this world, not the heavenly angelic host, which man was created a little lower.

jeremiah1five~Yes I do for holy does not sin. The second Adam who IS HOLY did not sin. Sin comes from sinner. This is not hard to understand.

All flesh will sin when left to themselves! Men are not immutable, and neither are angels! Jesus Christ, was the Son of God and proves it by the spirit of pure holiness in word, deeds, and thoughts!

Romans 1:3,4~"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:"

Sir, I will not continue arguing with anyone once I have proved God's truth with scriptures~I would be sinning against God's commandment. Titus 3:10,11~"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

jeremiah1five~
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Rom. 7:9–13.

Do you understand this?

I do, the sad part you do not. I will consider Romans 7 in a post very soon, but for now~Paul's testimony here is that while he was a self righteous Pharisees, he thought very highly of himself, but once he was converted to the truth and truly understood God's law, and its purpose, he saw SINS in his members working death in him that he never saw before~he saw it in his most holy moments while he sought to please God, even in his prayer life! If you have never seen this, then sin has deceived you by using the very commandments your flesh trust in for life!

jeremiah1five~ After Adam proved his sinfulness by sinning and received the KNOWLEDGE of his sinfulness the relationship between God and he changed

So, Adam changed? Interesting! Well, that show me some of your Soteriology. I'll believe the scriptures over your work based gospel.

Romans 8,7,8~"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." Once Adam sinned, he at once became at enmity against God, not just an enemy, but one that is at war against him. God had to go to Adam and recreate within him a NEW NATURE one that Jesus Christ secured for his elect, the very image of God, one that CANNOT SINNED!

I'll come back and finish, since I must go and pick up a granddaughter from school.

 

[EarlyActs]

Sir, that's very easy by believing the holy scriptures just as it is written, something you are having a hard time doing.

Genesis 1:27-31~"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, BEHOLD, IT WAS VERY GOOD. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Adam and Eve both were created in God's image, I did not write this, Moses did, because he was moved by the Holy Ghost to record this for all generations to read, and believe that all God has done in creations including man was not good, but very good~because they had God's image of Holiness, wisdom and knowledge and understanding. ALL they needed to be perfectly happy, and contented, living in perfect fellowship with God.

Of course I was speaking of this world, not the heavenly angelic host, which man was created a little lower.


All flesh will sin when left to themselves! Men are not immutable, and neither are angels! Jesus Christ, was the Son of God and proves it by the spirit of pure holiness in word, deeds, and thoughts!
Romans 1:3,4~"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:"

Sir, I will not continue arguing with anyone once I have proved God's truth with scriptures~I would be sinning against God's commandment. Titus 3:10,11~"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."


I do, the sad part you do not. I will consider Romans 7 in a post very soon, but for now~Paul's testimony here is that while he was a self righteous Pharisees, he thought very highly of himself, but once he was converted to the truth and truly understood God's law, and its purpose, he saw SINS in his members working death in him that he never saw before~he saw it in his most holy moments while he sought to please God, even in his prayer life! If you have never seen this, then sin has deceived you by using the very commandments your flesh trust in for life!



So, Adam changed? Interesting! Well, that show me some of your Soteriology. I'll believe the scriptures over your work based gospel.

Romans 8,7,8~"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." Once Adam sinned, he at once became at enmity against God, not just an enemy, but one that is at war against him. God had to go to Adam and recreate within him a NEW NATURE one that Jesus Christ secured for his elect, the very image of God, one that CANNOT SINNED!

I'll come back and finish, since I must go and pick up a granddaughter from school.

The new nature can't sin, but the person still has the previous nature, at the same time.

btw there is another guidance line from 1 Tim I think: do not spend time opposing things that are falsely-called 'knowledge.' This would have been mainly about Judaizers, of course, but there are applications.

 

[Red Baker]

EarlyActs~​

The new nature can't sin, but the person still has the previous nature, at the same time.

Amen~and they war against each other and are totally contrary to each other, per Galatians 5:17~" For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things you would. " To the degree we desire to do the will of God. Much what Paul said in Romans 7.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Sir, that's very easy by believing the holy scriptures just as it is written, something you are having a hard time doing.

Genesis 1:27-31~"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. And God saw every thing that he had made, and, BEHOLD, IT WAS VERY GOOD. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

The image of God is Christ. There is no better image of a Father than a Son and that Son is Christ.
Only He has dominion over creation and can cause fish to gather in a net. Man can't and never did.

Adam and Eve both were created in God's image, I did not write this, Moses did, because he was moved by the Holy Ghost to record this for all generations to read, and believe that all God has done in creations including man was not good, but very good~because they had God's image of Holiness, wisdom and knowledge and understanding. ALL they needed to be perfectly happy, and contented, living in perfect fellowship with God.

Only the Father and the Son have perfect fellowship.

Of course I was speaking of this world, not the heavenly angelic host, which man was created a little lower.

Earlier you said man was "higher than all creation." Now he is lower than the angels?
What happen?

All flesh will sin when left to themselves! Men are not immutable, and neither are angels! Jesus Christ, was the Son of God and proves it by the spirit of pure holiness in word, deeds, and thoughts!

Romans 1:3,4~"Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:"

Sir, I will not continue arguing with anyone once I have proved God's truth with scriptures~I would be sinning against God's commandment. Titus 3:10,11~"A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself."

I have the same thoughts about you to reject 2 Peter 2:4 and talk about the angels as though they escaped from their chains and running amok on the earth.

I do, the sad part you do not. I will consider Romans 7 in a post very soon, but for now~Paul's testimony here is that while he was a self righteous Pharisees, he thought very highly of himself, but once he was converted to the truth and truly understood God's law, and its purpose, he saw SINS in his members working death in him that he never saw before~he saw it in his most holy moments while he sought to please God, even in his prayer life! If you have never seen this, then sin has deceived you by using the very commandments your flesh trust in for life!

Paul is talking about the effect of the Law upon man, that the Law in the Garden of "Thou shalt not" showed Adam was a sinner before he sinned which is why he sinned. Sin comes from sinner.

So, Adam changed? Interesting! Well, that show me some of your Soteriology. I'll believe the scriptures over your work based gospel.

Adam didn't change but the relationship, or should I say, the communication between God and man changed after God taught Adam of his sinfulness through the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil.

Romans 8,7,8~"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." Once Adam sinned, he at once became at enmity against God, not just an enemy, but one that is at war against him. God had to go to Adam and recreate within him a NEW NATURE one that Jesus Christ secured for his elect, the very image of God, one that CANNOT SINNED!

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 Jn 1:8.

Adam was never in enmity against God. Before God created angels and man and before He created heaven and earth a lamb was slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. This is what allowed a Righteous God to create an unrighteous being.

While being born again we still retain our sinful nature. We sin daily. Are you in this group of do you believe that you do not sin?

 

[Marilyn C]

4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment. 2 Peter 2:4.

The number of angels that sinned are one-third.

They are ALL "cast to hell, and delivered in chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment."

ALL the angels that sinned.

This means that any and all evil in the world is the result of the sinful nature in mankind.
And it is all-encompassing:

5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only.
Gen. 6:5.

This explains a great deal, such as the sons of God who married the daughters of men were human, those from the Covenant line of Seth and the ungodly line of men and women who disobeyed the LORD.

Jesus seeing Satan fall as lightning was at the time God cast them to hell reserved in chains of darkness awaiting the judgment.

There is no Satan except as the word is used: adjective and noun - "adversary."

Hi Jeremiah,

Hell and chains of darkness, are a picture of what God has done to those fallen angels. God has them contained by His word, (chains). They can have influence over mankind because man gave that to them, however they can only go so far. Eventually `hell & death` will be thrown into the `lake of fire,` meaning a contained area with torment of the person`s own making.

Satan was Lucifer, and is now called the serpent of old, the dragon, & the devil. All those names reveal his strategies to delude, deceive, devour and destroy mankind. (Rev. 12: 9)

But, praise the Lord He has overcome in each area.

 

[Marilyn C]

From the fallen angels some married the daughters of men....left their first estate. They are the demons in the prison.

As to demons...many believe demons are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim.

God did not give angels sexual apparatus. There are no marriages in heaven, (Matt. 22: 30) Angels cannot procreate.

 

[Red Baker]

jeremiah1five~​

The image of God is Christ. There is no better image of a Father than a Son and that Son is Christ.
Only He has dominion over creation and can cause fish to gather in a net. Man can't and never did.

We are not discussing the power of Christ~but rather or not God created man in his own image~and he did, you reject this truth. Nor are we discussing that Christ is not the very express image of God, because he is. Now that being said, you conveniently overlook that God and Christ are one is their eternal infinite Being. SInce Jesus was a Son given not yet conceived, the only image the OT scriptures knows of is the image of God, whom Christ was in his Eternal Being according to his own testimony.


Revelation 1: 8~"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." So, you keeping repeating

jeremiah1five~​

The image of God is Christ. There is no better image of a Father than a Son and that Son is Christ.

Proves not a thing in your rejection of God not creating Adam and Eve with a sinful nature. Your doctrine is dangerously close to being blasphemy. You are making God the cause of their sin! When in fact, he created man after his own image in holiness, endowed with wisdom, understanding and true knowledge of God. Your doctrine is a doctrine of devils, per 1st Timothy 4:1


"Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" This should concern you deeply, and would if you had the Spirit of God in you.

jeremiah1five~​

Only the Father and the Son have perfect fellowship.

In our new man we too can have perfect fellowship with God. 1st John 1:3~"That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." Our flesh hinders this fellowship but cannot separate us totally from having fellowship with both the Son and the Father who is a Spirit that inhabits eternity, always has, always will. The only God we shall ever see is Jesus Christ, who is the True God and eternal life~1st John 5:20

jeremiah1five~​

I have the same thoughts about you to reject 2 Peter 2:4 and talk about the angels as though they escaped from their chains and running amok on the earth.

No problem, take the scriptures I used to prove my doctrine and the sense I gave to 2nd Peter 2:4 and prove them wrong, which so far you have not even try, all you can say is that they are "locked up" meaning they are not here and active~scriptures do have a sense that must be given to them, or else, no one could ever understand any scripture. Even John 3:16 must be rightly divided by comparing scriptures with scriptures, here a little, and there a little, line upon line, and precepts upon precepts, or else, no one would ever come to the knowledge of the truth~but, we can by using proper biblical hermeneutics, a gift you do not have, or at least not showing you do.

jeremiah1five~​

Earlier you said man was "higher than all creation." Now he is lower than the angels?
What happen?

Nothing happened sir, I gave the sense to what I meant, and you simply ignored it. I said in this world. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem.

jeremiah1five~​

Paul is talking about the effect of the Law upon man, that the Law in the Garden of "Thou shalt not" showed Adam was a sinner before he sinned which is why he sinned. Sin comes from sinner.

I'm not going to stay on your merry-go-round of saying the same thing over and over, there's no profit in doing so. Your understanding of scriptures is very strange and dangerous devilish. Adam was not a sinner before he disobeyed God. Sin comes from angels and men not having the attribute of being immutable, only God does, which is proven by the fall of Adam and Eve, and a host of angelical beings~created a little higher flesh and blood. Enough said.

Adam didn't change but the relationship, or should I say, the communication between God and man changed after God taught Adam of his sinfulness through the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil.

God did not teach Adam and THEN Adam changed! God came to them and clothed them without Adam asking God for help, he actually hid from God. ADam did not learned of his sinfulness by any act of his own, impossible! He labored to do do his own covering by his own labor which God rejected!

"Unto Adam also and to his wife DID THE LORD GOD make coats of skins, and clothed them." Coats of skins! Only the sacrifice of an innocent animal would be sufficient for their covering pointing toward the seed of the woman!

jeremiah1five~​

Adam was never in enmity against God. Before God created angels and man and before He created heaven and earth a lamb was slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world. This is what allowed a Righteous God to create an unrighteous being.

Sir, All sinners are at enmity against God, and even after we are born of the SPirit of God, our old man is STILL at enmity against God!

We agree that in God's infinite foreknowledge he knew the end from the beginning. He knew that all beings both angels and man did not have the attribute of being immutable, thereby he ordained certain angels and men to eternal life. Men through the sacrificial death of his Son as their surety. The non-elect angels no provision was provided them, neither for the non-elect flesh and blood. So, yes Jesus was A lamb slain from the foundation of the earth in God's eternal purposes.

jeremiah1five~​

While being born again we still retain our sinful nature. We sin daily. Are you in this group of do you believe that you do not sin?

Sir, we sin in all of our very best effort to serve and worship God. We are indeed a wicked person in our old man. Thanks be to God he has created a new amn within all of his children, that gives us hope of eternal life in the world to come.

 

[Wordsmith]

Sin comes from sinner. And neither angel or man was created holy.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

 

[Wordsmith]

God did not give angels sexual apparatus. There are no marriages in heaven, (Matt. 22: 30) Angels cannot procreate.

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. This passage does not say what you claim. 1. Fallen angels are no longer angels of God. 2. No passage tells us all angels can or cannot do fallen or not. 3. Angels can appear as men so that we can not tell the difference. 4. Fallen angels are not in heaven. This passage is often used as a proof text to counter the Genesis six event but falls far short from doing so. All we can derive from this passage is there is no need for marriage in heaven. This is no proof text to say what fallen angels can or cannot do.

 

[CrowCross]

God did not give angels sexual apparatus. There are no marriages in heaven, (Matt. 22: 30) Angels cannot procreate.

That verse doesn't statre angels can't procreate with humans.

"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven."

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hi Jeremiah,

Hell and chains of darkness, are a picture of what God has done to those fallen angels. God has them contained by His word, (chains).

Hello MC. Haven't seen you in a few weeks. Hope you're well.
I can accept that realizing there are no "real" chain in the contemporary sense in Eternity which is Himself as ONLY God is Eternal and creation is not.

They can have influence over mankind because man gave that to them, however they can only go so far.

If locked up they can have no influence upon mankind. The sin nature in man is all the fallen-ness in the world.

Eventually `hell & death` will be thrown into the `lake of fire,` meaning a contained area with torment of the person`s own making.

I agree with being thrown in the Lake of Fire but a person's own making of hell or eternal torment I believe to be the following:

56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 1 Cor. 15:56.

23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Lk 16:23–24.

I believe that being in eternal separation from God is painful and hurts. If it is sin that has separated men from God, then the pain of torments in my mind just may be a stinging sensation. And a stinging sensation over time may feel like a burning sensation if you've ever been stung before by some insect.
Since sin is death and death is sin and it says "the sting of death is sin" it is not unreasonable that the sting of eternal separation from God can feel like burning over time.
So, if at the moment of death, it feels like a sting no amount of clicking your heels will change the fact that you're not in Kansas anymore.

Satan was Lucifer, and is now called the serpent of old, the dragon, & the devil. All those names reveal his strategies to delude, deceive, devour and destroy mankind. (Rev. 12: 9)

Well, if Lucifer is Satan [adversary] then he would also be locked in chains awaiting judgment. The word "satan" has been used of men in the Old Testament for sure but the predominant belief in the Church is that the angels that sinned are NOT cast down and delivered in chains of darkness awaiting judgment and are still roaming the planet wreaking havoc on mankind which I now disagree. Have I worked out all the kinks of this understanding which I now believe I have not but there are Scriptures that are challenging. Still, Peter says that the angels that sinned - and that means ALL of them - were cast down to hell delivered in chains of darkness reserved unto judgment is a hard Scripture to get past in order to continue to say that Lucifer, Satan, the Devil are still loose on the planet. Everyone seems, no, not seems, ACTUALLY ignore what Peter said and believe that the angels that sinned are still loose on the planet.

But, praise the Lord He has overcome in each area.

More than conquerors, MC.

 

[CrowCross]

If locked up they can have no influence upon mankind. The sin nature in man is all the fallen-ness in the world.

All of the fallen angels may not be locked up. Still, this doesn't answer the questions about demons who are demonizing people.

 

[jeremiah1five]

All of the fallen angels may not be locked up. Still, this doesn't answer the questions about demons who are demonizing people.

Show me in Scripture where Jesus healed mental sickness as you would find Scripture where Jesus healed physical sickness.
Look closely. It's there.

 

[CrowCross]

Show me in Scripture where Jesus healed mental sickness as you would find Scripture where Jesus healed physical sickness.
Look closely. It's there.

I believe Jesus did and can heal mental illness...where is the verse that said He did?

Are you saying all demonized people are suffering from a mental illness?

Still, you didn't explain where demons came from.

 

[jeremiah1five]

I believe Jesus did and can heal mental illness...where is the verse that said He did?

Are you saying all demonized people are suffering from a mental illness?

Still, you didn't explain where demons came from.

I have submitted the idea that demons are the attitudes of the mind good and evil. They originate in humans and are immaterial, can’t be seen, are powerful and definitely can be felt.

 

[CrowCross]

I have submitted the idea that demons are the attitudes of the mind good and evil. They originate in humans and are immaterial, can’t be seen, are powerful and definitely can be felt.

....and this mental illness spoke and was then placed into pigs?

You'll need to do better.

 

[jeremiah1five]

....and this mental illness spoke and was then placed into pigs?

You'll need to do better.

Not IN the pigs. AMONG. Within the herd.
So, show me a Scripture or event of Jesus healing a mental sickness.
People have these illnesses even more than physical sickness.
Surely there's gotta be some Scripture. Jesus wouldn't heal the body without also healing the mind don't you think?
Or did Jesus completely ignore people with mental illness?

 

[Marilyn C]

Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. This passage does not say what you claim. 1. Fallen angels are no longer angels of God. 2. No passage tells us all angels can or cannot do fallen or not. 3. Angels can appear as men so that we can not tell the difference. 4. Fallen angels are not in heaven. This passage is often used as a proof text to counter the Genesis six event but falls far short from doing so. All we can derive from this passage is there is no need for marriage in heaven. This is no proof text to say what fallen angels can or cannot do.

God did not give angels sexual apparatus and then not let them procreate. As to angels appearing as men, that is all `appearing.`