The 2 Natures in Christ

[civic]

Hypostatic Union

1. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)

3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature.


4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)

6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a member of the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)

Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person. So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the general council at Chalcedon 451 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).



We need to look to the Monothelite Controversy which had to deal with whether there was one or two wills/minds in the person of Christ. The outcome was that there were two; one human and one divine with the human subjected to the divine. The eternal Son of God did not assume a part of a human nature without a mind, without a will, without human activity, but He assumed all the things that were planted in our nature by God.

Now then, to act (or in this case, speak) is the work of a person, but the form or nature is the cause of this action; for each person acts in accord with the form or nature which it has. A difference in causes (natures) produces a difference in effects (actions). Therefore, where there are different natures, there are also different activities. So in the one Person of Christ there are two natural actions, the divine and the human, each of which has its own essential attributes, functions, and actions. Jesus was thirty years old according to His human nature (Luke 3:23); according to His divine nature He could say: "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58). The question is did both natures know this and communicate it to the Person. The answer is yes because the divine nature with its corresponding divine will willed the human nature to respond in such a fashion in keeping with Christ's office and ministry. In the text regarding Mark 13:32, we have a slightly different situation here. Christ is acting (speaking) from His human nature, but, this time, the divine will does not allow the human will access to this knowledge. For this information is not to be published on earth. Therefore, as man, Christ cannot answer the question.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Eleanor]

Hypostatic Union

1. Jesus is a person. (1 Tim 2:5)

2. Jesus, the Person, has two natures- Divine and human (John 1:1, 14, 1 Timothy 3:16): Divine and human. This is the Hypostatic Union.( Col 2:9, Heb 1:3,2:16)

3. The Communicatio Idiomatum (Communication of the Properties) states that the attributes of His Divine nature and human nature are both ascribed to the one Person of Jesus. So Jesus can exhibit attributes of Divinity (Omnipresence, Omniscience, Omnipotence, . John 2:23, 3:13, 8:58, He was prayed to in Acts 7:59, John 14:13, He was is worshiped Matt 2:2:11, Rev 5:13-14) and at the same time exhibit attributes of His humanity( He was tempted, ate, prayed,wept, grew in wisdom and stature,was anointed,was baptized, the Father was greater, didn’t know the day or the hour of His Return, He cried My God my God why has Thou forsaken Me, He died etc.). The communicatio idiomatum does not mean that any part of the Divine nature was communicated to the human nature.


4. The Man(anthropos) Jesus is what we perceive (if we were there 2000 years ago in Israel) and through the Man we encounter the Divine nature (Jesus knowing all things, is on earth while in heaven, answers prayer, forgiving sins, etc.).

5. The Person of Jesus will always be both Divine and human. (John 1:1,14,20:28, 1 John 5:20, 1 Timothy 2:5) Those who deny this fact are the spirit of antichrist. (1 John 4:1-4,2 John 7)

6. The Divine Nature is within the Trinity.(Father, Son and Holy Spirit)

7. Since the Person of Jesus claims the attributes of Divinity(John 3:13,8:58,Matthew 9:2,12:8), then the Person of Jesus is a member of the Trinity.( John 14-16, Math 28:19)

Anything said of either of Christ's two natures applies to the one Person of Christ, so that is how it is said that Christ died on the cross. The term "hypostatic union" refers to the two natures united in the one Person, so anything said of those two natures in the one Person applies to the whole Person.
So we see that the Person of Christ is both God and man. The phrase hypostatic union was adopted by the general council at Chalcedon 451 AD. That council declared that the union of two natures is real (against Arius), not a mere indwelling of God in a man (against Nestorius), with a rational soul (against Apollinaris), and that in Christ’s Divine nature remains unchanged (against Eutyches).

We need to look to the Monothelite Controversy which had to deal with whether there was one or two wills/minds in the person of Christ. The outcome was that there were two; one human and one divine with the human subjected to the divine. The eternal Son of God did not assume a part of a human nature without a mind, without a will, without human activity, but He assumed all the things that were planted in our nature by God.

Now then, to act (or in this case, speak) is the work of a person, but the form or nature is the cause of this action; for each person acts in accord with the form or nature which it has. A difference in causes (natures) produces a difference in effects (actions). Therefore, where there are different natures, there are also different activities. So in the one Person of Christ there are two natural actions, the divine and the human, each of which has its own essential attributes, functions, and actions. Jesus was thirty years old according to His human nature (Luke 3:23); according to His divine nature He could say: "Before Abraham was born, I am" (John 8:58). The question is did both natures know this and communicate it to the Person. The answer is yes because the divine nature with its corresponding divine will willed the human nature to respond in such a fashion in keeping with Christ's office and ministry. In the text regarding Mark 13:32, we have a slightly different situation here. Christ is acting (speaking) from His human nature, but, this time, the divine will does not allow the human will access to this knowledge. For this information is not to be published on earth. Therefore, as man, Christ cannot answer the question.

hope this helps !!!

One more issue;

When the man Jesus died, did the God Jesus die?

No, only the body of the man Jesus died. All spirits are immortal--divine, angelic and human. Jesus' immortal human spirit did not die, nor did God, the divine Spirit, die.

 

[civic]

One more issue;

When the man Jesus died, did the God Jesus die?

No, only the body of the man Jesus died. All spirits are immortal--divine, angelic and human. Jesus' immortal human spirit did not die, nor did God, the divine Spirit, die.

There are many ways we can look at this from various angles , for example ;

Does God sleep
Does God get tired
Does God hunger
Does God thirst
Does God grow
Does God learn
Does God not know some things
And can God die

One thing we do know is that God became man known as the Incarnation. And we know Christ is a Divine Person. Natures don't sleep, eat or die- people do. So it can be said with all the above since Christ is God , He experienced all of the above. We cannot separate the Person from the nature. Christ is One Divine Person having 2 natures- both Divine and human. So it took the Incarnation for God to die on the cross since God cannot die if He did not become human. Its because Christ is fully God that there is Immeasurable value in His life, death and Resurrection. Where man (adam ) failed God made sure there would be no failure in the Incarnation. In a sense He is Superman, Superhuman without flaw, without sin, without the ability to fail hence He was/is Impeccable. The Incarnation was always the plan to defeat sin, sin and the devil. To undue what the first adam failed to do and Redeem us by His life, death and Resurrection. Christ was bullet proof so to speak when it came to sin and temptation. He was just as infallible as His Father. He always said and did what He saw His Father saying and doing because He was/is God in the flesh. The only difference between the Son and the Father during His earthly life was that He willingly lived in submission to the Father to fulfill the law, prophecy and defeat sin, death and the devil. He willingly laid aside His rights/privileges as God and to use them to His own advantage and live as a man to accomplish salvation for sinners as per Philippians 2.

BTW- death does not mean ceasing to exist. Death is a separation of the body from the soul/spirit .

 

[Fred]

When the man Jesus died, did the God Jesus die?

No, only the body of the man Jesus died. All spirits are immortal--divine, angelic and human. Jesus' immortal human spirit did not die, nor did God, the divine Spirit, die.

BDAG (3rd Edition): evidently in reference to the manner of Jesus' movement; pneuma is the part of Christ which, in contrast to flesh, did not pass away in death, but survived as an individual entity after death (pneuma, page 833).

 

[Eleanor]

There are many ways we can look at this from various angles , for example ;

Does God sleep
Does God get tired
Does God hunger
Does God thirst
Does God grow
Does God learn
Does God not know some things
And can God die

One thing we do know is that God became man known as the Incarnation. And we know Christ is a Divine Person.

Christ is both a human and a divine person, according to his two natures.

Natures don't sleep, eat or die- people do. So it can be said with all the above since Christ is God , He experienced all of the above. We cannot separate the Person from the nature. Christ is One Divine Person having 2 natures-both Divine and human.

And those two natures make the one person of Christ both human and divine.

So it took the Incarnation for God to die on the cross since God cannot die if He did not become human. Its because Christ is fully God that there is Immeasurable value in His life, death and Resurrection. Where man (adam ) failed God made sure there would be no failure in the Incarnation. In a sense He is Superman, Superhuman without flaw, without sin, without the ability to fail

Christ's mortal human person and nature were the same as Adam's at creation, totally free will; i.e., power to choose both obedience and disobedience, wherein was the trial of both, which trial Adam failed, but Christ did not.

hence He was/is Impeccable. The Incarnation was always the plan to defeat sin, sin and the devil. To undue what the first adam failed to do and Redeem us by His life, death and Resurrection. Christ was bullet proof so to speak when it came to sin and temptation.

He could not be tempted "as we are in every way" if he were bullet-proof.

Your incorrect notion of Christ's person as only divine necessarily minimizes the work and glory of Christ in our salvation.

He was just as infallible as His Father. He always said and did what He saw His Father saying and doing because He was/is God in the flesh. The only difference between the Son and the Father during His earthly life

The difference between the Son and the Father during his earthly life was his capacity to suffer humanly.

was that He willingly lived in submission to the Father to fulfill the law, prophecy and defeat sin, death and the devil. He willingly laid aside His rights/privileges as God and to use them to His own advantage and live as a man to accomplish salvation for sinners as per Philippians 2.
BTW- death does not mean ceasing to exist. Death is a separation of the body from the soul/spirit .

Agreed.

 

[civic]

Christ is both a human and a divine person, according to his two natures.

And those two natures make the one person of Christ both human and divine.

Christ's mortal human person and nature were the same as Adam's at creation, totally free will; i.e., power to choose both obedience and disobedience, wherein was the trial of both, which trial Adam failed, but Christ did not.

He could not be tempted "as we are in every way" if he were bullet-proof.

Your incorrect notion of Christ's person as only divine necessarily minimizes the work and glory of Christ in our salvation.

The difference between the Son and the Father during his earthly life was his capacity to suffer humanly.

Agreed.

God was tempted/ tested by Israel numerous times in the OT. Remotes and tested are the same word in the Greek. Just an fyi.

 

[Ritajanice]

One more issue;

When the man Jesus died, did the God Jesus die?

No, only the body of the man Jesus died. All spirits are immortal--divine, angelic and human. Jesus' immortal human spirit did not die, nor did God, the divine Spirit, die.

Amen!!

 

[Eleanor]

God was tempted/ tested by Israel numerous times in the OT. Remotes and tested are the same word in the Greek. Just an fyi.

The word in Scripture is "try," which in the Greek is dokimazo and peirazo.

What is "remotes"? Where do we find it?

And the Father, being without human body, does not suffer physical, emotional nor psychological pain in being tested as can humans.

 

[civic]

The word in Scripture is "try," which in the Greek is dokimazo and peirazo.

What is "remotes"? Where do we find it?

And the Father, being without human body, does not suffer physical, emotional nor psychological pain in being tested as can humans.

That was a typo - tested, tempted are the same word .

Do you know the doctrine of Perichoresis?

 

[Eleanor]

That was a typo - tested, tempted are the same word .

Do you know the doctrine of Perichoresis?

I know Scripture. Where do we find it in Scripture that I may examine it?

What does it state?

 

[civic]

I know Scripture. Where do we find it in Scripture that I may examine it?

What does it state?

When James says God cannot be tempted it’s the same word tested. It can be translated as both tempt or test.

peirazó: to make proof of, to attempt, test, tempt
Original Word: πειράζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: peirazó
Phonetic Spelling: (pi-rad'-zo)
Definition: to make proof of, to attempt, test, tempt
Usage: I try, tempt, test.

 

[Eleanor]

When James says God cannot be tempted it’s the same word tested. It can be translated as both tempt or test.

peirazó: to make proof of, to attempt, test, tempt
Original Word: πειράζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: peirazó
Phonetic Spelling: (pi-rad'-zo)
Definition: to make proof of, to attempt, test, tempt
Usage: I try, tempt, test.

God the Father's divine nature cannot be tested, there is nothing in him for sin to appeal to.

However, the human nature of the God-man Jesus' could be tested, as it was in the Garden of Gethsemane, and as Adam's was in the Garden of Eden.
Have you ever been tested to the point of actually sweating blood, where an angel was sent to support you?

 

[civic]

God the Father's divine nature cannot be tested, there is nothing in him for sin to appeal to.

However, the human nature of the God-man Jesus' could be tested, as it was in the Garden of Gethsemane, and as Adam's was in the Garden of Eden.
Have you ever been tested to the point of actually sweating blood, where an angel was sent to support you?

Can or does God allow evil in His presence ?

 

[Eleanor]

Can or does God allow evil in His presence ?

Not in relation with him, and certainly not coming from him, as in being the author of evil.

 

[civic]

Not in relation with him, and certainly not coming from him, as in being the author of evil.

He did in heaven with Satan negotiating what He would allow or disallow with Job.

 

[Eleanor]

He did in heaven with Satan negotiating what He would allow or disallow with Job.

That was not a relationship, that was an encounter.

 

[civic]

That was not a relationship, that was an encounter.

Jesus had relationships with plenty of sinners . Was He God ?

 

[Eleanor]

Jesus had relationships with plenty of sinners . Was He God ?

Jesus was also human, wherein he dealt with sinners.

 

[civic]

Jesus was also human, wherein he dealt with sinners.

Holy, undefiled, blameless just like the Father. His Person is Divine, the Eternal Son the 2nd Person in the Trinity. God is Immutable.

 

[Eleanor]

Holy, undefiled, blameless just like the Father. His Person is Divine, the Eternal Son the 2nd Person in the Trinity. God is Immutable.

His person is both divine and human, the human in submission to the divine and sometimes not having access to the divine knowledge.