Sign of presdestination!

[donadams]

I need authority from somewhere to believe Scripture?

Or, are you saying I need authority to believe only Scripture.

I am free to believe anything that is in agreement with Scripture.

Anything not in agreement with the word of God written (2 Tim 3:16) is a doctrine of man.

All truth or Christian faith is revealed by Christ and taught by His command matt 28:19

How can there beca self-taught bible scholar? Heb 1:1-2

Thks

 

[donadams]

Demonstrate that any mere humans have the authority to forgive sin against God. I don't even see the Apostles doing it. Jesus alone, God himself, has authority. Do you think sin can be forgiven with a mere word, maybe a hail Mary or two, and a flip of the hand? Why not add in there, indulgences! God probably won't mind, right?

Heb 1:1-2 Christ teaches us this the Christian faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Jn 20:21-23 same mission (matt 28:19) power (acts 1:8) and authority (matt 16:18-19) as Christ!

Jn 20:21-23

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

GOD BREATHED!

Amen?

 

[donadams]

donadams said:
Do you have authority to teach?
Read scripture?

Curiously, @donadams , nor any other RCC proponent, has yet, to my knowledge, show how any supposed apostolic succession transferred apostleship from the NT apostles to the current RCC magisterium.

I'm wondering how many of them get a nice position and think to themselves, "Y'know, we've got a really good gig going here!"

Because they are successors just like the successors of Moses whom Jesus commands obedience! Matt 23:1-3

Same authority taken from them matt 21:43 and given to peter and the apostles and their successors matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 eph 2:20

Christ still commands obedience to this authority

Christ is with His apostolic church! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:8

Thks

 

[Eleanor]

All truth or Christian faith is revealed by Christ and taught by His command matt 28:19

How can there beca self-taught bible scholar? Heb 1:1-2

Thks

Christ's arm is too short to reveal his truth to those who study the Scriptures?

 

[donadams]

Christ's arm is too short to reveal his truth to those who study the Scriptures?

Why ignore scripture?

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

The Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth (Jn 16:13) they must teach us! (Matt 28:19)

Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 2:42
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Phil 4:9
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

Christ is the light! (Truth)
Jn 8:12

The church he founded is also the light as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 5:14

Christ is the teacher!
Heb 1:1-3

The church He founded is also our teacher as an extension and command of Christ! Matt 18:17

Christ is the truth!
Jn 14:6

The church He founded is also the pillar of truth as an extension and command of Christ! 1 tim 3:15

Thks

 

[donadams]

*** Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

“BY THE CHURCH”!

1 tim 3:15

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

THE CHURCH IS THE PILLAR OF TRUTH!

 

[makesends]

Heb 1:1-2 Christ teaches us this the Christian faith eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Jn 20:21-23 same mission (matt 28:19) power (acts 1:8) and authority (matt 16:18-19) as Christ!

Jn 20:21-23

21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:

23 Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

GOD BREATHED!

Amen?

I'm wondering if you thought I was not familiar with those passages. The only two that I can see how they can be possibly be taken to impinge on the question of the authority of the priests to themselves forgive sin, in and of and by themselves, as though the sins were committed against them, are the John 20:23 --"Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained" and, the Matthew 16:19 --"...whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Even in those two, (I don't expect you to see how your use of them is, circularly, a use resulting from the prior assumption that the priests ARE possessing of that authority), there is no indication that any ability on their part to claim a person is forgiven, IS of itself, THE authority to forgive. Those passages, inclusive of their context immediate and wider, and also the rest of the passages you mention, are explicit as to who it is with the authority, and it is not the apostles (or in your use, priests). Everything the apostles did was UNDER the authority of Christ, not by their own authority.

On top of that, your priests are [supposedly] given that authority by their superiors, and not directly by Christ, according to RCC hierarchy. They need not even be regenerated redeemed believers to 'have' that [supposed] authority!

You are promoting a cult, a business, and a political power, through the use of superstition. Oh MY! I get to kiss his RING!!! I can't believe he deigns to look my direction!

 

[makesends]

Because they are successors just like the successors of Moses whom Jesus commands obedience! Matt 23:1-3

Same authority taken from them matt 21:43 and given to peter and the apostles and their successors matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 eph 2:20

Christ still commands obedience to this authority

Christ is with His apostolic church! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:8

Thks

Why so vague? You are just asserting,"...and their successors" --who are these successors? Show how you bridge that gap of silence.

 

[donadams]

I'm wondering if you thought I was not familiar with those passages. The only two that I can see how they can be possibly be taken to impinge on the question of the authority of the priests to themselves forgive sin, in and of and by themselves, as though the sins were committed against them, are the John 20:23 --"Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained" and, the Matthew 16:19 --"...whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Even in those two, (I don't expect you to see how your use of them is, circularly, a use resulting from the prior assumption that the priests ARE possessing of that authority), there is no indication that any ability on their part to claim a person is forgiven, IS of itself, THE authority to forgive. Those passages, inclusive of their context immediate and wider, and also the rest of the passages you mention, are explicit as to who it is with the authority, and it is not the apostles (or in your use, priests). Everything the apostles did was UNDER the authority of Christ, not by their own authority.

On top of that, your priests are [supposedly] given that authority by their superiors, and not directly by Christ, according to RCC hierarchy. They need not even be regenerated redeemed believers to 'have' that [supposed] authority!

You are promoting a cult, a business, and a political power. Superstition.

Does Christ possess the authority to forgive sins?

 

[donadams]

I'm wondering if you thought I was not familiar with those passages. The only two that I can see how they can be possibly be taken to impinge on the question of the authority of the priests to themselves forgive sin, in and of and by themselves, as though the sins were committed against them, are the John 20:23 --"Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained" and, the Matthew 16:19 --"...whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Even in those two, (I don't expect you to see how your use of them is, circularly, a use resulting from the prior assumption that the priests ARE possessing of that authority), there is no indication that any ability on their part to claim a person is forgiven, IS of itself, THE authority to forgive. Those passages, inclusive of their context immediate and wider, and also the rest of the passages you mention, are explicit as to who it is with the authority, and it is not the apostles (or in your use, priests). Everything the apostles did was UNDER the authority of Christ, not by their own authority.

On top of that, your priests are [supposedly] given that authority by their superiors, and not directly by Christ, according to RCC hierarchy. They need not even be regenerated redeemed believers to 'have' that [supposed] authority!

You are promoting a cult, a business, and a political power. Superstition.

Its always been by the authority of Christ He appointed them and sent them with His authority

 

[makesends]

*** Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

“BY THE CHURCH”!

1 tim 3:15

15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

THE CHURCH IS THE PILLAR OF TRUTH!

Preacher's wife's marginal comments to her husband's sermon notes: "Logic weak here. Raise voice and pound pulpit!"

What does the church being the pillar and ground of truth have to do with the RCC magisterium being the sole and authoritative purveyor of truth?

 

[donadams]

I'm wondering if you thought I was not familiar with those passages. The only two that I can see how they can be possibly be taken to impinge on the question of the authority of the priests to themselves forgive sin, in and of and by themselves, as though the sins were committed against them, are the John 20:23 --"Whosesoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained" and, the Matthew 16:19 --"...whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Even in those two, (I don't expect you to see how your use of them is, circularly, a use resulting from the prior assumption that the priests ARE possessing of that authority), there is no indication that any ability on their part to claim a person is forgiven, IS of itself, THE authority to forgive. Those passages, inclusive of their context immediate and wider, and also the rest of the passages you mention, are explicit as to who it is with the authority, and it is not the apostles (or in your use, priests). Everything the apostles did was UNDER the authority of Christ, not by their own authority.

On top of that, your priests are [supposedly] given that authority by their superiors, and not directly by Christ, according to RCC hierarchy. They need not even be regenerated redeemed believers to 'have' that [supposed] authority!

You are promoting a cult, a business, and a political power, through the use of superstition. Oh MY! I get to kiss his RING!!! I can't believe he deigns to look my direction!

Baptism is a requirement for receiving the other sacraments such as ordination and is all Christ’s authority and work in His church

Apostles and their successors were made priests by Christ at the last supper

Thks

 

[donadams]

Why so vague? You are just asserting,"...and their successors" --who are these successors? Show how you bridge that gap of silence.

power “bind and loose”

Matt 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

keys “jurisdictional authority”

Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

This kingdom authority Taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles isa 22:21-22 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

 

[donadams]

Preacher's wife's marginal comments to her husband's sermon notes: "Logic weak here. Raise voice and pound pulpit!"

What does the church being the pillar and ground of truth have to do with the RCC magisterium being the sole and authoritative purveyor of truth?

Christ!

Sacred scripture teaches that many of the same things apply to the apostolic church as it does Christ!

Light of the world: Jn 8:12 / Matt 5:14
Hear: Matt 17:5 acts 3:22 / Matt 18:17
Authority: Matt 28:17 / Jn 20:21
Reconciliation: 2 cor 5:19 / 2 cor 5:18
Forgive sins: Lk 5:20 / Jn 20:23

Truth: Jn 14:6 / 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus Christ and His church are one acts 9:4 eph 5:32 and the only means of salvation! Matt 28:19
acts 16:17


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

 

[makesends]

Does Christ possess the authority to forgive sins?

Christ alone.

I'm not going down your trail with you.

 

[makesends]

power “bind and loose”

Matt 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

keys “jurisdictional authority”

Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

This kingdom authority Taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles isa 22:21-22 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

C'mon! WHO are the successors between the NT apostles and the RCC magisterium. Stop side-stepping and fishing for red herrings.

 

[makesends]

power “bind and loose”

Matt 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

keys “jurisdictional authority”

Matt 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

This kingdom authority Taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter and the apostles isa 22:21-22 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

Did you even read what I said?

 

[makesends]

Christ!

Sacred scripture teaches that many of the same things apply to the apostolic church as it does Christ!

Light of the world: Jn 8:12 / Matt 5:14
Hear: Matt 17:5 acts 3:22 / Matt 18:17
Authority: Matt 28:17 / Jn 20:21
Reconciliation: 2 cor 5:19 / 2 cor 5:18
Forgive sins: Lk 5:20 / Jn 20:23

Truth: Jn 14:6 / 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus Christ and His church are one acts 9:4 eph 5:32 and the only means of salvation! Matt 28:19
acts 16:17


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

how does that extend to the RCC? What makes you think the RCC is THE CHURCH? Where is the lineage?

 

[donadams]

C'mon! WHO are the successors between the NT apostles and the RCC magisterium. Stop side-stepping and fishing for red herrings.

The apostolic fathers

Unbroken line of apostolic succession

Dogma
137. The Church was founded by the God-Man Jesus Christ.
138. Our Redeemer Himself conserves with divine power the society founded by Him, the
Church.
139. Christ is the Divine Redeemer of His Body, the Church.
140. Christ founded the Church in order to continue His work of redemption for all time.
141. Christ gave His Church a hierarchical constitution.
142. The powers bestowed on the Apostles have descended to the bishops.
143. Christ appointed the Apostle Peter to be the first of all the Apostles and to be the visible head
of the whole Church, by appointing him immediately and personally to the primacy of jurisdiction.
144. According to Christ’s ordinance, Peter is to have successors in his Primacy over the whole
Church and for all time.
145. The successors of Peter in the Primacy are the bishops of Rome.
146. The Pope possesses full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, not
merely in matters of faith and morals, but also in Church discipline and in the government of
the Church.
147. The Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra.
148. By virtue of Divine Right the bishops possess an ordinary power of government over their
dioceses.
149. Christ is the Head of the Church.
150. In the final decision on doctrines concerning faith and morals the Church is infallible.
151. The primary object of the Infallibility is the formally revealed truths of Christian Doctrine
concerning faith and morals.
152. The totality of the Bishops is infallible, when they, either assembled in general council or
scattered over the earth, propose a teaching of faith or morals as one to be held by all the
faithful.
153. The Church founded by Christ is unique and one.
154. The Church founded by Christ is holy.
155. The Church founded by Christ is catholic.
156. The Church founded by Christ is apostolic.
157. Membership of the Church is necessary for all men for salvation.

 

[donadams]

Christ alone.

I'm not going down your trail with you.

Then you won’t explain Jn 20:23?