Sign of presdestination!
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Mary’s mediatrix in Jn 2
Mary's role as Mediatrix is secondary to Jesus Christ's role as the primary mediator. Mary made the Redemption possible by consenting to bring Jesus into the world, but Jesus is the one who effected it, hence our savior!
Jn 2:1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew
the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
Matthew 9:17
Neither do men put new wine into old wine skins else the skins break, and the wine runneth out, and the skins perish: but they put new wine into new skins, and both are preserved. (New wine refers to the grace of the new covenant)
The wine is type of grace!
(The grace of the new covenant)
The bridegroom is a type of Christ!
(Saved the best for last, new covenant grace)
The bride a type of the church!
Mary intercedes and obtains the grace the bride of Christ needs!
And thru Mary’s intercession the disciples believed! Jn 2:11
Stewards are a type of the apostles
Chief steward a type of peter and the papacy
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Mary consented yo our salvation and all graces!
Lk 1:38 be it done unto me according to thy word.
Mary is the means of Elizabeth’s reception of the Holy Spirit.
Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Mother provides the needs of Her children.
Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17
Jn 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Rev 12:17 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(All our mother posses is ours by relationship, ask and you shall receive, All the treasures of grace merited by Christ, All His royal virtues, All the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit, and eternal life)
Sirach 24:24 I am the mother of fair love, and of fear, and of knowledge, and of holy hope.
25 In me is all grace of the way and of the truth, in me is all hope of life and of virtue.
“ONE MEDIATOR!” ( 1 Tim 2:5)
The father drawing souls: (Jn 6:44)
The working of the Spirit, gifts & fruits of the Spirit: ( gal 5:22-23
Ministry of Angels: ( psalm 104:4, acts 1:11, acts 8:26, heb 1:7)
Prayers of the Angels and Saints:
(Rev 5:8
Prayer of a righteous man:
(James 5:16)
Prayers of the faithful: (1 Tim 2:1, matt 21:41, & matt 7:7)
Suffering of the faithful: (rev 2:13, phil 1:29, col 1:24)
“Does not violate the one meditor!”
The intercession of Mary, mother of God & mediatrix of all graces does not either! (Lk 1:28-38, Lk 1:39-45 Jn 2:5-11)
Mary's role as Mediatrix is secondary to Jesus Christ's role as the primary mediator. Mary made the Redemption possible by consenting to bring Jesus into the world, but Jesus is the one who effected it, hence our savior!
Jn 2:1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
2 And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew
the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
Matthew 9:17
Neither do men put new wine into old wine skins else the skins break, and the wine runneth out, and the skins perish: but they put new wine into new skins, and both are preserved. (New wine refers to the grace of the new covenant)
The wine is type of grace!
(The grace of the new covenant)
The bridegroom is a type of Christ!
(Saved the best for last, new covenant grace)
The bride a type of the church!
Mary intercedes and obtains the grace the bride of Christ needs!
And thru Mary’s intercession the disciples believed! Jn 2:11
Stewards are a type of the apostles
Chief steward a type of peter and the papacy
16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Mary consented yo our salvation and all graces!
Lk 1:38 be it done unto me according to thy word.
Mary is the means of Elizabeth’s reception of the Holy Spirit.
Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Mother provides the needs of Her children.
Jn 19:26-27 rev 12:17
Jn 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
27 Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
Rev 12:17 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
(All our mother posses is ours by relationship, ask and you shall receive, All the treasures of grace merited by Christ, All His royal virtues, All the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit, and eternal life)
Sirach 24:24 I am the mother of fair love, and of fear, and of knowledge, and of holy hope.
25 In me is all grace of the way and of the truth, in me is all hope of life and of virtue.
“ONE MEDIATOR!” ( 1 Tim 2:5)
The father drawing souls: (Jn 6:44)
The working of the Spirit, gifts & fruits of the Spirit: ( gal 5:22-23
Ministry of Angels: ( psalm 104:4, acts 1:11, acts 8:26, heb 1:7)
Prayers of the Angels and Saints:
(Rev 5:8
Prayer of a righteous man:
(James 5:16)
Prayers of the faithful: (1 Tim 2:1, matt 21:41, & matt 7:7)
Suffering of the faithful: (rev 2:13, phil 1:29, col 1:24)
“Does not violate the one meditor!”
The intercession of Mary, mother of God & mediatrix of all graces does not either! (Lk 1:28-38, Lk 1:39-45 Jn 2:5-11)
The mother of “our salvation”?
It doesn't matter who since only God is the proper recipient of prayer.
You are dodging the subject I brought up.
Our prayers are directed to God but the saints are intercessors!
It matters cos he said they saved the best for last indicating the new covenant of grace
To what "presentation" are you referring in the title of the OP?
You left this part out from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (2nd Edition):
[2679]
Like the beloved disciple we welcome Jesus' mother into our homes, for she has become the mother of all the living.
We can pray with and to her. (page 644)
The boldface above is mine.
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Mary is the mother of our Savior. Not the mother of our salvation.
Scripture says Jesus is “our salvation” Lk 2:30
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Because he is our Savior.
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Does it say that in the Bible, or is that Catholic tradition?
I posit that there is no sign of predestination. If one believes in the person and work of Jesus according to Scripture (as opposed to heretical traditions of the RCC) it is because they are the elect of (by) God who predestines them to be conformed to the image of Christ, and therefore he calls them ("My sheep Hear my voice and follow me." "Those the Father gives me." John 10). By grace they are saved through faith and that too is a gift of God. (Eph 2) Mary does not enter into it. She was a vessel. A servant.
God is the “source and first cause,” of all good, this does not exclude another immediate cause that is chosen and authorized by God to accomplish His will & purpose!
Examples:
Noah:
Moses:
Joshua:
(Primary cause)
God is the source, first, & remote cause of the salvation of the family of Noah from the flood!
(Secondary cause)
Noah is the “immediate” cause of the salvation of the family of Noah from the flood!
Noah believed God:
Noah consented to God will & plan of salvation:
Noah puts his faith into action by obedience to God & building the ark:
(Primary cause)
God is the source, first, & remote cause of the salvation of the children of Israel from Egypt!
(Secondary cause)
Moses is the immediate cause of the salvation of the of the children of Israel from Egypt!
Moses puts his faith into action by obedience to God, going back to Egypt and delivering the children of Israel from bondage.
(Primary cause)
God is the source, first, & remote cause of the children of Israel entering the promised land!
(Secondary cause)
Joshua is the immediate cause of the children of Israel entering the promised land!
Joshua puts his faith into action by obedience to God, and leading the children of Israel into the promised land.
These are “type and figures of our salvation!”
Mary & The great affair of “our salvation!”
(Primary cause)
God is the source, first, & remote cause of “our salvation!”
(Secondary cause)
Mary is the immediate cause of “our salvation!”
Mary found grace with God. Lk 1:30
Mary believed God. Lk 1:45
Mary put her faith into action by obedience to God by consenting to “our salvation.”
Mary consented to “our salvation.” Lk 1:38
And By the conception of the Holy Spirit!
Mary is the fruitful virgin who conceived by the power of the most high. Matt 1:
And by bearing in Her sacred womb “our salvation.”
And by giving birth to “our salvation.”
Mary gave birth to “our salvation.”
You would never say: “Noah had zero to do with the salvation of his family from the flood!” Or that “Moses had zero to do with the salvation of children of Israel from bondage in Egypt,” or that Joshua has zero to do with the children of Israel entering the promised land.”
Examples:
Noah:
Moses:
Joshua:
(Primary cause)
God is the source, first, & remote cause of the salvation of the family of Noah from the flood!
(Secondary cause)
Noah is the “immediate” cause of the salvation of the family of Noah from the flood!
Noah believed God:
Noah consented to God will & plan of salvation:
Noah puts his faith into action by obedience to God & building the ark:
(Primary cause)
God is the source, first, & remote cause of the salvation of the children of Israel from Egypt!
(Secondary cause)
Moses is the immediate cause of the salvation of the of the children of Israel from Egypt!
Moses puts his faith into action by obedience to God, going back to Egypt and delivering the children of Israel from bondage.
(Primary cause)
God is the source, first, & remote cause of the children of Israel entering the promised land!
(Secondary cause)
Joshua is the immediate cause of the children of Israel entering the promised land!
Joshua puts his faith into action by obedience to God, and leading the children of Israel into the promised land.
These are “type and figures of our salvation!”
Mary & The great affair of “our salvation!”
(Primary cause)
God is the source, first, & remote cause of “our salvation!”
(Secondary cause)
Mary is the immediate cause of “our salvation!”
Mary found grace with God. Lk 1:30
Mary believed God. Lk 1:45
Mary put her faith into action by obedience to God by consenting to “our salvation.”
Mary consented to “our salvation.” Lk 1:38
And By the conception of the Holy Spirit!
Mary is the fruitful virgin who conceived by the power of the most high. Matt 1:
And by bearing in Her sacred womb “our salvation.”
And by giving birth to “our salvation.”
Mary gave birth to “our salvation.”
You would never say: “Noah had zero to do with the salvation of his family from the flood!” Or that “Moses had zero to do with the salvation of children of Israel from bondage in Egypt,” or that Joshua has zero to do with the children of Israel entering the promised land.”
Mr GLee
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Hi Don
Limbo and purgatory predestination. . . .just wondering. That kind of Mary ? Sacred Tradition?
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Do you think God sent Gabriel to Mary to ask her permission to bring the Savior through her?
No, she gave birth to our Savior. It is improper to say she gave birth to our salvation. Our salvation is a person. He was called Jesus.
They were chosen by God, equipped by God, directed by God, as his servants in the history (God entering creation in historic acts) of redemption.
Mr GLee
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God's source of faith is "let there be" and "it was good".
Word's have definitions to go along
Those are simply apostles "sent ones" sent with prophecy .
Apostles are as nothing .How beautiful are their feet.
Foreign to Catholicism that must hate sola scriptura.
Every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labor.
Some say as their own labor limbo for the younger sinners and purgatory for the mature sinner. The wonder, wonder ,marvel never coming to a end . .doctrine of dying fathers
1 Corithians 3: 6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase. So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
Nothing comes from our sister in the Lord Mary or Peter the serial diner .
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