Roman 9:22-24

[ReverendRV]

I do not believe in a god who arbitrarily condemns people for sin when it is his fault that they are sinners. <snip>

I agree

 

[Carbon]

I agree

Yep. I agree also

 

[ReverendRV]

Yep. I agree also

Let's help him beat that Straw Man...

 

[Carbon]

I do not believe in a god who arbitrarily condemns people for sin when it is his fault that they are sinners.

Me neither.

I believe in a God who gives to every man an opportunity to repent and receive Jesus as his Lord and Saviour; and I believe in a Jesus who will in no wise cast out anyone who comes to Him (John 6:37); not a Jesus who might reject a person who comes to Him because, unbeknownst to them, they were never of His elect and therefore even in coming to Him He might cast them away. For the latter thing is contrary to scripture (John 6:37).

News flash: none will come to Him. He has to draw them.

And in your opinion, because I don't toe the line to your hyper-Calvinistic philosophy, I am not even saved.

Why are you telling me my opinion?
That’s kinda rude don’t you think?
Ask.

Well, I can say the same to you: that you are not saved because you have not fulfilled the condition to the promise of receiving remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38-39).

When did I say you are not saved? What do you believe?

I have scripture to back up my statement while you do not have any scripture to back up your statement that I am not saved...you simply think that I am not saved because I don't tow the line to your philosophy (no scripture to back it up).

How do you know what I think friend? Are you a mind reader?

2 Peter 3:9...

2Pe 3:9, The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

"us-ward" here is speaking of all those who will read Peter's letter and therefore no one is excluded.

John 6:37 is clear on that.

Jesus will in no wise cast out any one who comes to Him.

………..

Therefore, in the scenario where someone who is "not of the elect" comes to Christ, in your estimation Christ will cast them out.

No that’s not true at all. They just won’t come, period.

In my estimation, no one is of the elect until after they have come to Christ; and therefore if they come to Christ, it cannot be true that they are not of the elect. They become "saved" the moment that they come to Christ; He will in no wise cast them out.

Thanks for your opinion. I believe you are totally wrong

 

[Deleted member 5]

In your theology that is because I do not have a choice in the matter.

No one is saved via their will, Romans 9:11ff; John 1:13, but through His; James 1:18; Ephesians 1:4ff.

How then can God justly condemn me for something

Because you're a sinner and He can exercise justice at will. He owes no one "a chance" and if He never gives a person one He is still just.

that is His doing and not my own?

That's blasphemy. Only God is responsible for salavation. Man is responsible for his sin and damnation. Liek I said, you are being the Romans 9:19-21 man.

He ought to punish Himself instead of me.

More blasphemy. You are at hostility with the God of Scripture and are calling Him unjust because He can exercise justice whenever He desires. You've placed your human criteria upon Him, and that is Biblically called idolatry.

That would be the just due to be meted out to the god that you serve.

I don't serve a "god." I serve the One and only true God, YHWH.

(not to be confused with the fact that the God that I serve already took the penalty for my sins because He loves me).

You're just plain hateful aren't you? You consider others lost, but yourself saved while you blaspheme God and His ways? Wow. Well, at least I know where we stand, and what you think of others.

 

[justbyfaith]

Me neither.

News flash: none will come to Him. He has to draw them.

Why are you telling me my opinion?
That’s kinda rude don’t you think?
Ask.

When did I say you are not saved? What footy believe?

How do you know what I think friend? Are you a mind reader?

………..

I was not only talking to you. I was responding to multiple posts.

No that’s not true at all. They just won’t come, period.

*

Thanks for your opinion. I believe you are totally wrong

I am wrong in saying that if they come, they are of the elect?

*Didn't you just say that if they are not of the elect, they won't come?

 

[justbyfaith]

No one is saved via their will, Romans 9:11; John 1:13, but through His; James 1:18.

Because you're a sinner and He can exercise justice at will. He owes no one "a chance" and if He never gives a person one He is still just.

That's blasphemy. Only God is responsible for salavation. Man is responsible for his sin and damnation. Liek I said, you are being the Romans 9:19-21 man.

More blasphemy. You are at hostility with the God of Scripture and are calling Him unjust because He can exercise justice whenever He desires. You've placed your human criteria upon Him, and that is Biblically called idolatry.

I don't serve a "god." I serve the One and only true God, YHWH.

You're just plain hateful aren't you? You consider others lost, but yourself saved while you blaspheme God and His ways? Wow. Well, at least I know where we stand, and what you think of others.

Lord, give me the words to say...

If man is responsible for his sin and damnation, then he must have a choice in the matter of whether or not he sins. Otherwise he is not responsible.

Since you are not preaching the God of holy scripture, my disagreement with you is not blasphemy and I am not at hostility with the God of holy scripture. I am at odds with your concept of God; which portrays Him as some sort of cosmic monster.

Your "God" is merely a "god"...not the true God of holy scripture...and certainly not the YHWH that saved me so many years ago.

The YHWH that saved me desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

He is love.

He does not want any to perish but that all should come to repentance.

If your god desires that some be eternally condemned, then you are believing in a false god.

Even in the scripture we are looking at, God endures the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction with great longsuffering.

That means, He suffers when they sin.

So, He is not behind their sinful behaviours; and neither is He responsible for them.

But if they don't have a choice in the matter of whether or not they sin, then He is responsible for their sin.

In your belief system, it would appear that He created them for the day of judgment and they cannot be anything but sinners because He created them that way...and also, because some are not of the elect, they cannot ever repent and receive forgiveness because God has arbitrarily closed the door on them.

 

[Carbon]

*Didn't you just say that if they are not of the elect, they won't come?

Yes that is correct.
Didn’t Jesus say in John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him…???

So who should I believe? You or God?

 

[Deleted member 5]

Lord, give me the words to say...

Don't blame that mess on Him, it came from you.

If man is responsible for his sin and damnation, then he must have a choice in the matter of whether or not he sins. Otherwise he is not responsible.

Since you are not preaching the God of holy scripture, my disagreement with you is not blasphemy and I am not at hostility with the God of holy scripture. I am at odds with your concept of God; which portrays Him as some sort of cosmic monster.

Your "God" is merely a "god"...not the true God of holy scripture...and certainly not the YHWH that saved me so many years ago.

The YHWH that saved me desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

He is love.

He does not want any to perish but that all should come to repentance.

If your god desires that some be eternally condemned, then you are believing in a false god.

Even in the scripture we are looking at, God endures the vessels of wrath fitted for destruction with great longsuffering.

That means, He suffers when they sin.

So, He is not behind their sinful behaviours; and neither is He responsible for them.

But if they don't have a choice in the matter of whether or not they sin, then He is responsible for their sin.

In your belief system, it would appear that He created them for the day of judgment and they cannot be anything but sinners because He created them that way...and also, because some are not of the elect, they cannot ever repent and receive forgiveness because God has arbitrarily closed the door on them.

That's fine, call me and the God I serve all the names you desire. The bottom line is you are at hostility and enmity toward Him.

As far as 2 Peter 3:9, you haven't grown in knowledge enough to understand context, recipients &c. You lack biblical understanding whichis why you fail the 2 Timothy 2:15 test and arrive at many errors.

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes that is correct.
Didn’t Jesus say in John 6:44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him…???

So who should I believe? You or God?

He draws everyone (John 12:32).

 

[justbyfaith]

That's fine, call me and the God I serve all the names you desire. The bottom line is you are at hostility and enmity toward Him.

As far as 2 Peter 3:9, you haven't grown in knowledge enough to understand context, recipients &c. You lack biblical understanding whichis why you fail the 2 Timothy 2:15 test and arrive at many errors.

Actually, I am head over heels in love with my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

But I know the preaching of a false god when I hear it.

God has given me the Holy Ghost because I have fulfilled the condition of a promise in holy scripture (Acts 2:38-39).

Therefore I have an unction from the holy one and know the difference between truth and lies (1 John 2:20).

 

[justbyfaith]

Don't blame that mess on Him, it came from you.

That's your problem...I prayed for the Lord to speak through me and you don't believe that He did because you don't want to believe what I had to say to you.

I would suggest that you read Hebrews 3:7-8, Hebrews 3:15, and Hebrews 4:7.

 

[justbyfaith]

The bottom line is you are at hostility and enmity toward Him.

I am unashamed to say that I am at odds with the god that you portray. {Edit: Insults toward Christ will not be tolerated}

 

[justbyfaith]

It is my prayer almost every night that not only would I show myself approved unto Him, rightly dividing the word of truth; but that His word might rightly divide my thinking so that I think rationally and logically and clearly; faithfully and godly and righteously and holily. That He would give me a spirit and wisdom that none of my adversaries might be able to gainsay nor resist.

 

[Deleted member 5]

Actually, I am head over heels in love with my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

But I know the preaching of a false god when I hear it.

God has given me the Holy Ghost because I have fulfilled the condition of a promise in holy scripture (Acts 2:38-39).

Therefore I have an unction from the holy one and know the difference between truth and lies (1 John 2:20).

That's your problem...I prayed for the Lord to speak through me and you don't believe that He did because you don't want to believe what I had to say to you.

I would suggest that you read Hebrews 3:7-8, Hebrews 3:15, and Hebrews 4:7.

I am unashamed to say that I am at odds with the god that you portray. For he can be none other than the god of this world.

Cool, you've blasphemed God, and have called me lost in multiple ways.

Anything else?

 

[justbyfaith]

Cool, you've blasphemed God, and have called me lost in multiple ways.

Anything else?

Yes, you have accused me of blaspheming God when I have in all reality not done so.

Edit by Admin

And you also called me lost before I called you lost (if I did indeed do that).

 

[Deleted member 5]

Yes, you have accused me of blaspheming God when I have in all reality not done so.

But you have. By your own postings you show you're at hostility toward Him.

I am sorry to tell you that you have no discernment

Cool.

and that you have believed in a god who is not only unbiblical

OK.

but who is not the God of love

If you say so.

that would give His life as a ransom for many (all...1 Timothy 2:6).

You don't understand the text, context, nada.

 

[justbyfaith]

You don't understand the text, context, nada.

sounds like the rhetoric of a cult I was once involved in.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you say so.

You'd better believe it!

Why not repent and believe in the God of the Bible; who is love (1 John 4:8,16)?

 

[Deleted member 5]

sounds like the rhetoric of a cult I was once involved in.

You're in one now.