The wrath of God.
Sometimes it's easier to think of it as delivered, as I'm sure that you already know, saved means delivered.
So we're delivered from the penalty of sin. God's justice. Is there anything else that we're delivered from?
The wrath of God.
We are delivered from our bondage to sin.Sometimes it's easier to think of it as delivered, as I'm sure that you already know, saved means delivered.
So we're delivered from the penalty of sin. God's justice. Is there anything else that we're delivered from?
Biblical demonstration of my Biblical error?You're not smashing your system into your answer, are you? It doesn't matter. It made me laugh though.
Are you just not going to reply to any posts?Now, what are you saved from?
So, God opening Lydia's heart so she could understand isn't regeneration?Here's one place. Lydia come to mind too. Acts.
John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." (speaking of all nations, not every individual...Peter at Pentecost "salvation has come to the Gentiles")
Yes, that's your whole argument, "faith before salvation." It is up to man.Arial, try this.
What does that same context in Ephes. 2 say about spiritual death to spiritual life? What separates them. It's in the very next verse.
6 "and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus," (Born again) Cart
And how are we raised up together? By being one with God, being "in Christ". (2 Cor. 5:17)
How do we become "in Christ"? When the Holy Spirit is placed into us by Jesus. Called, the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
How does that happen? By faith. Horse (Romans 10:8-11 Saved))
Where does faith come from? The Author and finisher of faith, Jesus. From God yes. Born again no.
The problem is that you're putting the cart before the horse because you're system demands that born again and regeneration are synonymous, but that idea is hostile to Scripture.
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Dave
It is being raised to life from death. Born in death. Reborn in life. Born again. It is a sovereign act of God, the ONLY life giver. It is being born again that places us in Chirst. The comparrison is between two births. Of the earth---in Adam. Our natural birth. And our new birth in the second Adam, Christ. A spiritual birth.What does that same context in Ephes. 2 say about spiritual death to spiritual life? What separates them. It's in the very next verse.
6 "and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus," (Born again) Cart
Born Again (Regeneration): The innitial act of the Holy Spirit giving spiritual life to the dead sinner (Eph 2:1-5).
Instantaneous, sovereign, monergistic.
Purpose: to enable faith and a spiritual response. (John 3:5-8)
The baptism of the Holy Spirit and the new birth are not identical, but they are inseparably connected and occur simultaneously at the moment of salvation.How do we become "in Christ"? When the Holy Spirit is placed into us by Jesus. Called, the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
Faith is the human response that accompanies that moment of union with Christ (see above, the baptism of the Holy Spirit). Explain to me please how someone can have that faith if they have not been born again and remain dead in their sins?How do we become "in Christ"? When the Holy Spirit is placed into us by Jesus. Called, the baptism with the Holy Spirit.
How does that happen? By faith. Horse (Romans 10:8-11 Saved))
Where does faith come from? The Author and finisher of faith, Jesus. From God yes. Born again no.
Whether or not born again and regeneration are the same thing, actually has nothing to do with this particular section of the conversation. How would there not being the same thing change anything either one of us said? But you are the one who has a cart pulling a horse, and I have illustrated that quite clearly. And the idea of regeneration and born again as being synonymous is not hostile to Scripture, it is hostile to your belief. And your belief cannot in any way be shown by scripture to be anywhere close to correct. So far it has all been based on presuppositions read into the scriptures that have no theological basis. You only say regeneration is some sort of primitive regeneration in the OT. But the Bible shows only one way of salvation. Grace, and it is monergistic and by election.The problem is that you're putting the cart before the horse because you're system demands that born again and regeneration are synonymous, but that idea is hostile to Scripture.
Man has no ability in effecting his salvation. He does have subsequently all kinds of responsibility, to include repentance, submission, obedience, devotion, commitment, love, etc. and all their accompanying practices, disciplines and pursuits.Man has no responsibility?
That's what I'm getting at.We are delivered from our bondage to sin.
What are you getting at?
Are you just not going to reply to any posts?
It's not born again.So, God opening Lydia's heart so she could understand isn't regeneration?
Man is saved by believing (John 3:16). God does not believe for a man. God is the cause of a man believing.Man cannot do anything to become saved.
It's not born again.
Does what I said contradict that?Man is saved by believing (John 3:16). God does not believe for a man. God is the cause of a man believing.
Like a carpenter with a hammer. The hammer addresses the nail but the hammer is a secondary cause of striking the nail.
The cause of man's salvation is his belief in Christ. The cause of man's belief is God. God is uncaused.
Man cannot do anything to become saved.
Yes, as man must do something to save himself. John 3:16 points out that one must believe to be saved and "believing" constitutes something a man must do to be saved. I grant the God causes the man to do something with 100% efficiency. I know we're on the same page. Just semantics IMO.Does what I said contradict that?
It's not born again.
Let's get back to the basics for a second.It's not born again.
GREAT set of questions.Let's get back to the basics for a second.
You have stated (at least as I understand what you have said) that the OT saints were saved by regeneration but that they were not born again.
That what happened with the OT saints instead of being born again, is a primitive type of regeneration. Does that mean that you are positing that it falls short of being born again but is enough to save them?
Is there actually anything in Scripture that states such a thing as a type of regeneration that does not mean full regeneration?