Regeneration and born again are not synonymous

[Dave]

The wrath of God.

Sometimes it's easier to think of it as delivered, as I'm sure that you already know, saved means delivered.

So we're delivered from the penalty of sin. God's justice. Is there anything else that we're delivered from?

 

[Arial]

Sometimes it's easier to think of it as delivered, as I'm sure that you already know, saved means delivered.

So we're delivered from the penalty of sin. God's justice. Is there anything else that we're delivered from?

We are delivered from our bondage to sin.
We are delivered from sins condemnation.
We are delivered from the kingdom of darkness.
We have the future hope (promise) of being delivered from mortality and corruption and raised immortal, not corrupt, and incorruptible.

What are you getting at?

 

[Eleanor]

You're not smashing your system into your answer, are you? It doesn't matter. It made me laugh though.

Biblical demonstration of my Biblical error?

Didn't think so. . .

 

[Carbon]

Now, what are you saved from?

Are you just not going to reply to any posts?

 

[Carbon]

Here's one place. Lydia come to mind too. Acts.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." (speaking of all nations, not every individual...Peter at Pentecost "salvation has come to the Gentiles")

So, God opening Lydia's heart so she could understand isn't regeneration?

 

[Carbon]

Arial, try this.

What does that same context in Ephes. 2 say about spiritual death to spiritual life? What separates them. It's in the very next verse.

6 "and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus," (Born again) Cart

And how are we raised up together? By being one with God, being "in Christ". (2 Cor. 5:17)

How do we become "in Christ"? When the Holy Spirit is placed into us by Jesus. Called, the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

How does that happen? By faith. Horse (Romans 10:8-11 Saved))

Where does faith come from? The Author and finisher of faith, Jesus. From God yes. Born again no.

The problem is that you're putting the cart before the horse because you're system demands that born again and regeneration are synonymous, but that idea is hostile to Scripture.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Dave

Yes, that's your whole argument, "faith before salvation." It is up to man.

 

[Arial]

What does that same context in Ephes. 2 say about spiritual death to spiritual life? What separates them. It's in the very next verse.

6 "and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus," (Born again) Cart

It is being raised to life from death. Born in death. Reborn in life. Born again. It is a sovereign act of God, the ONLY life giver. It is being born again that places us in Chirst. The comparrison is between two births. Of the earth---in Adam. Our natural birth. And our new birth in the second Adam, Christ. A spiritual birth.

Born Again (Regeneration): The innitial act of the Holy Spirit giving spiritual life to the dead sinner (Eph 2:1-5).
Instantaneous, sovereign, monergistic.
Purpose: to enable faith and a spiritual response. (John 3:5-8)

How do we become "in Christ"? When the Holy Spirit is placed into us by Jesus. Called, the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit and the new birth are not identical, but they are inseparably connected and occur simultaneously at the moment of salvation.

Again:
New birth:Holy Spirit imparts spiritual life.
Baptism of the Holy Spirit: The ACT of the Spirit's placing a person into union with Christ and His body (the church).

How do we become "in Christ"? When the Holy Spirit is placed into us by Jesus. Called, the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

How does that happen? By faith. Horse (Romans 10:8-11 Saved))

Where does faith come from? The Author and finisher of faith, Jesus. From God yes. Born again no.

Faith is the human response that accompanies that moment of union with Christ (see above, the baptism of the Holy Spirit). Explain to me please how someone can have that faith if they have not been born again and remain dead in their sins?

If faith produces, first the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit then produces the new birth, faith is of ourselves, not God. We are the means of both the baptism of the Holy Spirit and the New birth. Salvation is no longer by grace, and faith is not a gift. And all Jesus did was die on a cross.

I would really like for this to become a two way conversation, where you actually also deal with what I say, instead of just me dealing with what you say.

The problem is that you're putting the cart before the horse because you're system demands that born again and regeneration are synonymous, but that idea is hostile to Scripture.

Whether or not born again and regeneration are the same thing, actually has nothing to do with this particular section of the conversation. How would there not being the same thing change anything either one of us said? But you are the one who has a cart pulling a horse, and I have illustrated that quite clearly. And the idea of regeneration and born again as being synonymous is not hostile to Scripture, it is hostile to your belief. And your belief cannot in any way be shown by scripture to be anywhere close to correct. So far it has all been based on presuppositions read into the scriptures that have no theological basis. You only say regeneration is some sort of primitive regeneration in the OT. But the Bible shows only one way of salvation. Grace, and it is monergistic and by election.

 

[makesends]

Man has no responsibility?

Man has no ability in effecting his salvation. He does have subsequently all kinds of responsibility, to include repentance, submission, obedience, devotion, commitment, love, etc. and all their accompanying practices, disciplines and pursuits.

 

[Dave]

We are delivered from our bondage to sin.

What are you getting at?

That's what I'm getting at.

 

[Dave]

Are you just not going to reply to any posts?

Not to the questions that I feel I've already answered. I would just give the same answers as before. I said these things many times in this thread.

 

[Dave]

So, God opening Lydia's heart so she could understand isn't regeneration?

It's not born again.

 

[fastfredy0]

Man cannot do anything to become saved.

Man is saved by believing (John 3:16). God does not believe for a man. God is the cause of a man believing.
Like a carpenter with a hammer. The hammer addresses the nail but the hammer is a secondary cause of striking the nail.
The cause of man's salvation is his belief in Christ. The cause of man's belief is God. God is uncaused.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

It's not born again.

Request: Where in this thread have you explained the difference between "regeneration" and "born again."

 

[fastfredy0]

Regeneration = Born again according to ChatGPT


Question: In the protestant faith, is "regeneration" the same as being "born again"?


Answer:
In many Protestant traditions, "regeneration" and "being born again" are considered essentially synonymous. They both refer to the spiritual renewal and transformation that happens when a person receives God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ.


Elaboration:

• Regeneration: In theological terms, regeneration is the act of God giving spiritual life to a person. It's often described as a new birth or the implanting of new spiritual life.
• Being born again: This phrase, taken from John 3:3, is a common way to describe regeneration. It emphasizes the idea of a spiritual rebirth, moving from a state of spiritual death to new life in Christ.

Synonymy: Many Protestant denominations, including Baptists and some Reformed traditions, believe that regeneration and being born again are the same event.



These verses indicate that being "born again" is the experience of spiritual regeneration, a work of God through the Holy Spirit that gives new life to believers in Jesus Christ.

• John 3:3-8: Jesus speaks of the necessity of being "born again" or "born from above" to enter the kingdom of God, contrasting physical birth with spiritual birth by the Spirit.
• Titus 3:5: This verse connects salvation to "the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit," linking regeneration to spiritual cleansing and renewal.
• 1 Peter 1:3: This verse states that God has caused believers to be "born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ".
• 1 Peter 1:23: This verse emphasizes being "born again" through the imperishable word of God.
• 1 John 1:13: This verse speaks of becoming children of God by being "born of God," signifying a spiritual birth that makes one a child of God.

 

[makesends]

Man is saved by believing (John 3:16). God does not believe for a man. God is the cause of a man believing.
Like a carpenter with a hammer. The hammer addresses the nail but the hammer is a secondary cause of striking the nail.
The cause of man's salvation is his belief in Christ. The cause of man's belief is God. God is uncaused.

Does what I said contradict that?

 

[fastfredy0]

You said:

Man cannot do anything to become saved.

Does what I said contradict that?

Yes, as man must do something to save himself. John 3:16 points out that one must believe to be saved and "believing" constitutes something a man must do to be saved. I grant the God causes the man to do something with 100% efficiency. I know we're on the same page. Just semantics IMO.

 

[Hazelelponi]

It's not born again.

They place the Spirit's testifying with your spirit that you're a child of God as the initial part of sanctification - confirmation of regeneration and justification - and not as the regeneration itself. The born again IS the moment you are given a salvific understanding/recognition of God/Jesus in truth.

Your placing the Spirits testimony in the wrong place is all.

I was having a problem myself with where to put that, but I do finally get it...

 

[Hazelelponi]

...

 

[Arial]

It's not born again.

Let's get back to the basics for a second.

You have stated (at least as I understand what you have said) that the OT saints were saved by regeneration but that they were not born again.
That what happened with the OT saints instead of being born again, is a primitive type of regeneration. Does that mean that you are positing that it falls short of being born again but is enough to save them?

Is there actually anything in Scripture that states such a thing as a type of regeneration that does not mean full regeneration?

 

[Josheb]

Let's get back to the basics for a second.

You have stated (at least as I understand what you have said) that the OT saints were saved by regeneration but that they were not born again.
That what happened with the OT saints instead of being born again, is a primitive type of regeneration. Does that mean that you are positing that it falls short of being born again but is enough to save them?

Is there actually anything in Scripture that states such a thing as a type of regeneration that does not mean full regeneration?

GREAT set of questions.