Regeneration and born again are not synonymous

[Carbon]

I agree. Still has God's kingdom divided.

Yes, it does.

 

[Dave]

@makesends, @Arial, @Carbon, @Josheb, @Eleanor, @Hazelelponi

There's way too much for me to answer today. Many of my question that mattered the most were ignored. But, lets try it this way. This is for everybody. Answer this as if you were asked by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Himself. There are no but's in the Gospel message. It's a simple question.

What must man do to be saved?

Dave

 

[Carbon]

@makesends, @Arial, @Carbon, @Josheb, @Eleanor, @Hazelelponi

There's way too much for me to answer today. Many of my question that mattered the most were ignored. But, lets try it this way. This is for everybody. Answer this as if you were asked by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Himself. There are no but's in the Gospel message. It's a simple question.

What must man do to be saved?

Dave

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Carbon]

@Dave would you answer Post #166 for now?

 

[Carbon]

There are no but's in the Gospel message. It's a simple question.

Up to this point I thought you were doing okay, you were staying away from the synergistic technique of setting the stage for everyone to go by for their (you’re) argument. But with this statement, with me anyway, you lost some face.
You also ruined your own thread. But if you want to forget you even made this statement? I suppose we could if you don’t try it again??

What must man do to be saved?

Like I said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[makesends]

@makesends, @Arial, @Carbon, @Josheb, @Eleanor, @Hazelelponi

There's way too much for me to answer today. Many of my question that mattered the most were ignored. But, lets try it this way. This is for everybody. Answer this as if you were asked by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Himself. There are no but's in the Gospel message. It's a simple question.

What must man do to be saved?

Dave

Man cannot do anything to become saved.

 

[Hazelelponi]

@Dave - consider me tagged out. I'm just reading. I need no responses.

 

[Eleanor]

@makesends, @Arial, @Carbon, @Josheb, @Eleanor, @Hazelelponi

There's way too much for me to answer today. Many of my question that mattered the most were ignored. But, lets try it this way. This is for everybody. Answer this as if you were asked by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Himself. There are no but's in the Gospel message. It's a simple question.

What must man do to be saved?

Dave

Believe in and trust on the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin (Jn 3:18), which faith is a gift (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3), which follows the gift of rebirth by the sovereign (as unaccountable as the wind, Jn 3:6-8) will of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5).

True faith obeys.

 

[Eleanor]

There is no such thing as "sovereignty" of God in the Bible, nor "Trinity" for that matter.

But there is "dead in your transgressions and sins" (Eph 2:1, 5, Col 2:13).

Hmmm... Is that right?

1 Timothy 6:13-16
I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who testified the good confession before Pontius Pilate, that you keep the commandment without stain or reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time — He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen.

The Greek there is "dynastes," which is variously translated as ruler, potentate, sovereign, an individual who rules by force (G1413). Paul prayed the believers in Ephesus would understand this when he wrote,

Ephesians 1:18-23
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of his calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised him from the dead and seated him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.

Elsewhere Paul wrote,

Philippians 2:9-11
For this reason also God highly exalted him, and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Sounds pretty sovereign to me. I don't recall reading anything in the New Testament about an election where people got to choose who would be seated far above all rule, authority, power, dominion, and name, or if any creature in creation was asked if they wanted to be put in subjection under Christ's feet. I've read the Bible cover to cover multiple times but maybe I missed that verse .

Would you like me to survey the entirety of scripture and sample from numerous places where God's sovereignty and Christ's sovereignty is, in fact, asserted, both explicitly and implicitly?

Scripture proves otherwise.

First of all, my critique is not about an argument from silence and, second, Just about everyone here can define "Trinity," and provide an incredibly well-reasoned case full of scripture to justify both that doctrine and the use of that label.

Did you read that being done with "spiritually dead"? Or was the term asserted as a given without definition, without explanation, and without cause..... in the effort to "confront" questionable doctrine? In any other endeavor we might not pay much attention to the use of that phrase but if the objective is to confront doctrine, then doctrinal terms shouldn't be used, or if used then defined and their definition justified. Otherwise, as I have already pointed out, the argument is either hypocritical, circular, or question-begging.

Yep.

So why use an invented term when what is plainly stated will suffice?

For the same reason we use "Trinity" and "sovereignty," neither of which actual words are in Scripture.

Spiritual death has been defined for you (Eph 2:1).

Become comfortable with common orthodox Christian theology and terminology. . .no need to re-invent the wheel.

It's not complicated. . .

Why assert never-mentioned terms without ever defining them, expecting others to accept the assertion without explanation....... if the goal is to confront questionable doctrine?

 

[Dave]

Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now, what are you saved from?

 

[Dave]

@Dave - consider me tagged out. I'm just reading. I need no responses.

I figured as much. When I seen your 'like' of another post, I added your name for that reason, just in case you were still reading.

 

[Dave]

@Dave would you answer Post #166 for now?

I'm going back to where I left off yesterday right now. I'm guessing that's #166 ish.

 

[Dave]

Man cannot do anything to become saved.

Man has no responsibility?

 

[Dave]

Believe in and trust on the person and atoning work of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin (Jn 3:18), which faith is a gift (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3), which follows the gift of rebirth by the sovereign (as unaccountable as the wind, Jn 3:6-8) will of the Holy Spirit (Jn 3:3-5).

True faith obeys.

You're not smashing your system into your answer, are you? It doesn't matter. It made me laugh though.

 

[Dave]

Up to this point I thought you were doing okay, you were staying away from the synergistic technique of setting the stage for everyone to go by for their (you’re) argument. But with this statement, with me anyway, you lost some face.
You also ruined your own thread. But if you want to forget you even made this statement? I suppose we could if you don’t try it again??

Like I said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

I know that you're thinking was the same as Eleanor's. Kudos for holding back. I just wanted you to know that I'm not trying to hide context to make a point. Just building from a simple truth.

 

[Arial]

@makesends, @Arial, @Carbon, @Josheb, @Eleanor, @Hazelelponi

There's way too much for me to answer today. Many of my question that mattered the most were ignored. But, lets try it this way. This is for everybody. Answer this as if you were asked by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ Himself. There are no but's in the Gospel message. It's a simple question.

What must man do to be saved?

Dave

Man must believe in the person and work of Christ. But he cannot do that through any volition of his own, being dead in trespasses and sins as he is. (Romans 8:7-8. John 6:44; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:1-5,13).

He must be born again before he can have faith. ( John 3:3,5,8; John 1:12-13).

 

[Dave]

They believe because of and by God drawing them? Respectfully, that's a very weak case. Would you please explain the cause of this belief? It shouldn't be very difficult, I wouldn't think.
As it is right now, I think you want me to believe the drawing (which I believe in your way of explaining it's just suddenly noticing God, or that there is a God?) is believing?

Here's one place. Lydia come to mind too. Acts.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 12:32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself." (speaking of all nations, not every individual...Peter at Pentecost "salvation has come to the Gentiles")

 

[Dave]

Man must believe in the person and work of Christ. But he cannot do that through any volition of his own, being dead in trespasses and sins as he is. (Romans 8:7-8. John 6:44; 1 Cor 2:14; Eph 2:1-5,13).

He must be born again before he can have faith. ( John 3:3,5,8; John 1:12-13).

You and Eleanor both . Arial, what are you saved from?

 

[Arial]

You and Eleanor both . Arial, what are you saved from?

The wrath of God.

 

[Dave]

Born Again (Regeneration): The innitial act of the Holy Spirit giving spiritual life to the dead sinner (Eph 2:1-5).
Instantaneous, sovereign, monergistic.

Arial, try this.

What does that same context in Ephes. 2 say about spiritual death to spiritual life? What separates them. It's in the very next verse.

6 "and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus," (Born again) Cart

And how are we raised up together? By being one with God, being "in Christ". (2 Cor. 5:17)

How do we become "in Christ"? When the Holy Spirit is placed into us by Jesus. Called, the baptism with the Holy Spirit.

How does that happen? By faith. Horse (Romans 10:8-11 Saved))

Where does faith come from? The Author and finisher of faith, Jesus. From God yes. Born again no.

The problem is that you're putting the cart before the horse because you're system demands that born again and regeneration are synonymous, but that idea is hostile to Scripture.

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

Dave