Reconciled to God while enemies!

[brightfame52]

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !

You see, they cannot be both condemned and under wrath as enemies and reconciled to God as enemies at the same time !

 

[John Bauer]

The argument still trades on an equivocation between objective accomplishment and subjective application. Reformed orthodoxy has always distinguished these, precisely to avoid the contradiction he alleges.

Scripture is clear that the benefits of Christ’s work are applied in time through union with Christ by the Spirit, instrumentally through faith. Prior to this application, the elect are described without qualification as children of wrath, dead, and condemned. That language is covenantal and forensic, not hypothetical.

Hence the necessary distinction:

• Procured / accomplished reconciliation (historia salutis): fully secured at the cross for the elect.
• Applied reconciliation (ordo salutis): actually possessed when one is united to Christ by faith.

Rule 4.4 is now in effect.

 

[brightfame52]

The argument still trades on an equivocation between objective accomplishment and subjective application.

There is a factual objective accomplishment prior to the subjective application which is when the reconciled is given spiritual life. However the objective accomplishment is settled and binding even b4 the elect sinner is born. The elect sinner, though born dead in sin, is still objectively reconciled to God by His Sons Death alone.

 

[John Bauer]

There is a factual objective accomplishment prior to the subjective application which is when the reconciled is given spiritual life. However the objective accomplishment is settled and binding even b4 the elect sinner is born. The elect sinner, though born dead in sin, is still objectively reconciled to God by His Sons Death alone.

The logical error persists here (highlighted portion). Acknowledge and resolve the fallacy, or deny it and clearly explain why it's not fallacious.

 

[Arial]

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !

You see, they cannot be both condemned and under wrath as enemies and reconciled to God as enemies at the same time !

I am curious then why Paul bothered to write Eph 2:1-9




1And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

And did you notice in the scripture you quoted that it says we were reconciled while we were enemies?

 

[Arial]

Thats a different subject matter that Im not dealing with right now. Please dont change my subject.

Sure I did, thats why I quoted it. Im happy to elaborate on that.

If you think what I quoted from Eph 2 is a different subject, then I presume you don't know your subject very well. If that is not the case, then you saying it is a different subject simply means that you only want focus on what you say and not the actual subject you bring up. IOW you do not want to look at or discuss anything in Scripture that would show you assertion to be illogical.

 

[Arial]

Sure I did, thats why I quoted it. Im happy to elaborate on that.

You have elaborated on it ad nauseum as it is. Here is what you said and how you used that Scripture:

Rom 5:10

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


All for whom Christ died, have been reconciled to God, by His death alone, not by their obedience, not by their faith, not by their repentance, but even while they were being enemies, unbelievers, children of wrath as others BY NATURE, now if this be the case, their being reconciled, they cannot be under condemnation and wrath as others Jn 3:18,36 even while being unbelievers !

You see, they cannot be both condemned and under wrath as enemies and reconciled to God as enemies at the same time !

Your assertion is illogical. We cannot be enemies and not enemies at the same time and in the same way. Get your categories straight and stop basing interpretation on conflating one thing---Gods eternal plan and Christ's fulfillment of the work of that plan (his perfect righteousness and the cross) --- and another thing---that work being applied, according to the plan, to an individual in time and through regeneration and faith which reconciles them to God. By the power of God, they are changed from genuine enemies to no longer enemies. That is exactly what Eph 2 means when it says while we were dead in our trespasses he made us alive in Christ.

 

[Arial]

One of the reasons why everyone Christ died for are reconciled to God by His Death only, even while they are enemies or unbelievers , is because there is no sins against God's Law imputed to them, Christ's death has paid in full for them, and God has nothing against them, even while they themselves are enemies and unbelievers.

"Enemy" and "reconciled" are opposites. An enemy is not in a state of reconciliation while he is an enemy. Logic.