Reading/Hearing Scripture is only a start

[JIM]

Paul's baptism was the NT outward sign of an inward work of grace (cleansing of sin), as circumcision was the OT outward sign of an inward work of grace (cutting off of sin). (Col 2:11-12)

Col 2:11 In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Col 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

 

[JIM]

Those Scriptures are given in the post.

None of those passages say anything about him having "to be raised to spiritual life in the new birth in order to spiritually believe in the promise."

 

[prism]

Jesus said they were slow to believe, not that they were unbelieving. A lot of folks today are slow to believe but that doesn't make them unbelievers.

Sigh, perhaps I should have said, 'they weren't NT believers yet, not having a clue about the resurrection..

Romans 10:9 NKJV
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[Eleanor]

Do you suppose the washing of regeneration is what Paul described concerning his own baptism in Acts 22:16 as the washing away of his sins? It is certainly the same Greek word λούω [louō] (verb form) and λουτρόν [loutron] (noun form).

None of those passages say anything about him having "to be raised to spiritual life in the new birth in order to spiritually believe in the promise."

Those passages were in answer to your question above.

 

[prism]

Again, John 16:13 was directed at Jesus' disciples. You are not free to usurp what was spoken to the apostles who became God's messengers through divine revelation by the Holy Spirit. You are not one of them.

and this?..

Ephesians 1:18 NASB95
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

 

[prism]

The new birth does not give you the gift of divine revelation.

I never said the new birth gives' divine revelation'. If you're fishing for someone who thinks there are prophets and apostles today, you are fishing in the wrong water hole.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

How on earth do you know that? If you are just presuming that is true because if your beliefs are true it would be, then best include that in the mix rather than state it as fact. That would also require you to present your belief that leads to that one about Abraham, and lay down the track for us so we can decide for ourselves. Then---there is something to talk about and discuss.

So Jesus was mistaken, when he told his boys (John 14:17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Humans being INDWELLED by the Holy SPirit (John 20:22) didn't happen until AFTER Calvary. Humans having the Holy Spirit ON (Acts 2:4) them had been happening since the beginning.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The essence of the "Born Again Experience" is being raised from spiritual death to eternal life in spiritual rebirth of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit does not dwell within the spiritually dead.

Sure - but HE'S the one that makes us "Spiritually ALIVE" when we're "Born Again" after Repenting, and calling on God in FAITH.

 

[JIM]

Those passages were in answer to your question above.

???????

 

[JIM]

I never said the new birth gives' divine revelation'. If you're fishing for someone who thinks there are prophets and apostles today, you are fishing in the wrong water hole.

You quoted Jesus words to His disciples as being applicable to yourself and others. They are not.

 

[JIM]

and this?..

Ephesians 1:18 NASB95
I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,

That is not a description of the new birth. That was spoken to the "saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus", i.e., those who had already been born again.

 

[JIM]

Sure he was. That's why he had faith.

Meaningless, That is just words

 

[Carbon]

Meaningless, That is just words

I can see that. To you they are. You’re a good synergist.

 

[JIM]

I can see that. To you they are. You’re a good synergist.

Thank you. I take that as a compliment, given it is biblical.

 

[Carbon]

Thank you. I take that as a compliment, given it is biblical.

You are welcome.

 

[prism]

You quoted Jesus words to His disciples as being applicable to yourself and others. They are not.

Perhaps not others, but I don't think you are in a position to dictate what happened (is applicable) in my life.

 

[prism]

That is not a description of the new birth. That was spoken to the "saints who are at Ephesus and who are faithful in Christ Jesus", i.e., those who had already been born again.

I tried to keep it short, so try this...

Ephesians 2:1-6 NASB95
And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, [2] in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. [3] Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. [4] But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, [5] even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ ( by grace you have been saved), [6] and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

2 Corinthians 5:17 NASB95
Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

Or, are you trying to say the 'new birth' is not for today?

 

[JIM]

Or, are you trying to say the 'new birth' is not for today?

I didn't say that. Why would you think it?

 

[Eleanor]

Sure - but HE'S the one that makes us "Spiritually ALIVE" when we're "Born Again" after Repenting, and calling on God in FAITH.

The spiritually dead do not spiritually repent and call on God. They're dead, incapable of anything spiritual.

 

[Eleanor]

???????

Review the thread.