Reading/Hearing Scripture is only a start

[prism]

I didn't say that. Why would you think it?

Because you seem to question nearly everything I bring up including my own testimony of being born again.
I almost mistook you for being a cessationist when it comes to the new birth.
Sorry for the confusion.

 

[JIM]

Review the thread.

There is no scriptural support anywhere in the thread for your statement that "The spiritually dead do not spiritually repent and call on God. They're dead, incapable of anything spiritual."

More to the point, there is no scriptural support for that statement. That is a Calvinist construct arising from the false claim of Total Depravity.

 

[JIM]

Because you seem to question nearly everything I bring up including my own testimony of being born again.
I almost mistook you for being a cessationist when it comes to the new birth.
Sorry for the confusion.

I have not questioned your testimony of being born again. I certainly do question the Calvinist doctrine of regeneration, the new birth.

 

[prism]

I have not questioned your testimony of being born again. I certainly do question the Calvinist doctrine of regeneration, the new birth.

Understood, mine happened pretty much the way Calvinists and the NT describe it. I guess I was a Calvinist by birth (tongue in cheek).

 

[JIM]

Understood, mine happened pretty much the way Calvinists and the NT describe it. I guess I was a Calvinist by birth (tongue in cheek).

More like how Calvinists think the NT describes it (which I believe is wrong).

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The spiritually dead do not spiritually repent and call on God. They're dead, incapable of anything spiritual.

AH - the good 'ol Calvinist "Total depravity" theology. They had to invent their "Regeneration theology" as a "Work around" for that.

The rest of us simply have: "CONVICTION OF SIN AND OF JUDGEMENT" from God. That's the source of FAITH (God's WORD to the person - Rom 10:17), and when the person surrenders, and REPENTS of their SIN, and calls on God in FAITH, then the Holy Spirit indwells, and the person is saved, and on their way. John 20:22 is the FIRST TIME that happened. It was impossible in the Old Testament, since NOBODY was CLEANSED of their SIN - even though they had been Forgiven.

Then in Acts 2:4, the Holy Spirit came UPON the Christians, who already had the Holy Spirit indwelling, and clothed (endued) them (the Church) with POWER.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Here is why...

Luke 24:45
And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

Unbelief does that to you.

 

[Arial]

That is a Calvinist construct arising from the false claim of Total Depravity.

Prove it is a Calvinist construct and that total depravity is a false claim. So far all you do is make statements as though they are facts and never demonstrate you position or refute logically the one you oppose. "Calvinist construct" means absolutely nothing. It is things like this that are a spot and blemish on the forum. Most people here would like to have constructive conversations.

 

[Eleanor]

AH - the good 'ol Calvinist "Total depravity" theology.

What part of 1 Co 2:14 do you not understand?

They had to invent their "Regeneration theology" as a "Work around" for that.

You're rather confused.

It was Jesus who invented Jn 3:3-8.

 

[prism]

Unbelief does that to you.

I don't quite understand.

 

[sawdust]

The wages of sin is physical death. Christ physically died to pay my debt for sin.

Adam died spiritually. Physical death is the outward manifestation of the inner reality. The word used in Rom.6:23 is "thanatos" which is usually used in reference to spiritual death, not physical.

I am regenerated by the Holy Spirit and will physically die one day, I am not saved from physical death.

Which is precisely why you should understand your salvation is from spiritual death and not physical death. But it seems you don't. Never mind, we were all without understanding at one time. We each must grow at our own pace.

 

[sawdust]

Sigh, perhaps I should have said, 'they weren't NT believers yet, not having a clue about the resurrection..

Romans 10:9 NKJV
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

Fair enough but I don't see how that means we don't need the Spirit in order to comprehend the things of God. Who else will explain God to us except God?

 

[Carbon]

There's that Calvinist "Buzz word again" According to the Calvinists here "Regeration" is a "twilight state" that doesn't mean "Born Again" but apparently DOES "lead into it".

Bob, you should let a Calvinist speak for Calvinism.

Regeneration is born again.

 

[prism]

Fair enough but I don't see how that means we don't need the Spirit in order to comprehend the things of God. Who else will explain God to us except God?

Last I checked, the Holy Spirit is God as well as the Author of Scripture.

 

[sawdust]

Last I checked, the Holy Spirit is God as well as the Author of Scripture.

Precisely! It is exactly what I mean. Without the Spirit, who is God, we would be utterly hopeless in understanding spiritual matters.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Bob, you should let a Calvinist speak for Calvinism.

Regeneration is born again.

But NOT "Salvation" according to Calvinists here.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

The essence of the "Born Again Experience" is being raised from spiritual death to eternal life in spiritual rebirth of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit does not dwell within the spiritually dead.

But when He INDWELLS a person, then they're "Spiritually alive". It's called "Being Born again" / Becoming a "Christian".

 

[prism]

Precisely! It is exactly what I mean. Without the Spirit, who is God, we would be utterly hopeless in understanding spiritual matters.

So now we are agreed on the OP..
******************
Here is why...

Luke 24:45
And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

*****************

 

[Carbon]

But NOT "Salvation" according to Calvinists here.

What do you consider salvation? You don't agree regeneration is salvation?

 

[sawdust]

So now we are agreed on the OP..
******************
Here is why...

Luke 24:45
And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

*****************

I think we were always in agreement, I just wasn't sure what you were disagreeing with. Spiritual understanding can never occur without the Spirit. You can memorise the whole Bible if you want but that won't mean you will understand a word of it.

Being spiritually alive, having the indwelling of the Spirit and reading the scripture is not enough which, is what I took from your OP. It's why Paul commands us to be filled with the Spirit so that we can understand on a daily basis what we hear from the word. Being under the Spirit's control can be lost when we sin and when we are in that position, if we do not recognise our sin as sin and confess it, we will not comprehend spiritual matters. We need the Spirit to enlighten us.