Question on John 19:30

[Arch Stanton]

The RC organisation did not exist until the fourth century A.D., at the earliest.

not bad, you are only off by three centuries....keys to Peter

 

[Eleanor]

Have you demonstrated that your interpretation of 'It...is finished' is correct?

Mt 20:28 - "he came to give his life as a ransom" (guilt offering, Heb 9:15, 1 Tim 2:6, Isa 53:10)

Jn 19:30 - It is finished. . .the ransom is PAID. . .in full. . .no other payments owing.

Are you able to be corrected?

Only by the Scriptures understood in agreement with all Scripture.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Only by the Scriptures understood in agreement with all Scripture.

Who is in agreement? Baptist, Methodist, Anglican, Non-denominations, Presbyterian, etc.

We need a Philip, just as the eunuch did. Philip was part of the universal church that has been with us for 2,000 years.

 

[Eleanor]

Who is in agreement? Baptist, Methodist, Anglican, Non-denominations, Presbyterian, etc.

Those in agreement with all Scripture, understood in the light of all Scripture.

Exegesis is the means, as in post #82.

We need a Philip, just as the eunuch did. Philip was part of the universal church that has been with us for 2,000 years.

See post #45.

 

[Carbon]

did you forget to tell Carbon the same?

Oh I know it’s not scripture. I’m just showing the people you always claimed to be yours, well. Haha

 

[Alive]

Oh I know it’s not scripture. I’m just showing the people you always claimed to be yours, well. Haha

My thought was quoting a brother is way different than a quote from the catholic book of doctrine as equal or superior to scripture.

 

[Arial]

not bad, you are only off by three centuries....keys to Peter

Where is the RCC mentioned by Peter or any of the NT writers?

 

[Arial]

a living sacrifice

It was not finished on the cross

What wasn't finished on the cross?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Oh I know it’s not scripture. I’m just showing the people you always claimed to be yours, well. Haha

Tertullian from the Montanists?

 

[Arch Stanton]

Where is the RCC mentioned by Peter or any of the NT writers?

You keep putting the R in front, why?

 

[Arch Stanton]

The RC organisation did not exist until the fourth century A.D., at the earliest.

off by 300 years again... keys to Peter

 

[Arial]

You keep putting the R in front, why?

Because that is what you are following. That is what the institution you venerate is called. Roman Catholic Church. It is a religious denomination. It names itself as the universal church by name, but that does not make it the catholic church that is Christ's. I am still waiting to hear from any Catholic the answer to my question. Who made the RCC the one true church of Christ? Where did they get the authority to do so?

The reason it is never answered is because they gave it to themselves. They are their only witness to the claim. And none want to come out and acknowledge that is the case.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Oh I know it’s not scripture. I’m just showing the people you always claimed to be yours, well. Haha

CHALLENGE
“The Church Fathers sometimes used language implying the Eucharist was symbolic, so they couldn’t have believed in the Real Presence.”

DEFENSE
The concept of a symbol means something different today from what it did in the time of the early Church.

We have already seen that the Church Fathers were realists in their understanding of Christ’s presence in the Eucharist (see Day 120). How- ever, Protestant historian J.N.D. Kelly writes: “Occasionally these writers use language which has been held to imply that, for all its realist sound, their use of the terms ‘body’ and ‘blood’ may after all be merely symbolical. Tertullian, for example, refers to the bread as ‘a figure’ ( figura) of Christ’s body, and once speaks of ‘the bread by which he represents (repraesentat) his very body’ (Early Christian Doctrines, 212).

However, Kelly warns: “Yet we should be cautious about interpreting such expressions in a modern fashion. According to ancient modes of thought a mysterious relationship existed between the thing symbolized and its symbol, figure or type; the symbol in some sense was the thing symbolized” (ibid.).

Thus Tertullian’s statement that the Eucharist “represents” Christ’s body must be understood in its ancient context:

Again, the verb repraesentare, in Tertullian’s vocabulary, retained its original significance of “to make present.” All that his language re- ally suggests is that, while accepting the equation of the elements with the body and blood, he remains conscious of the sacramental distinction between them. In fact, he is trying, with the aid of the concept of figura, to rationalize to himself the apparent contradiction between (a) the dogma that the elements are now Christ’s body and blood, and (b) the empirical fact that for sensation they remain bread and wine (ibid.). [CA, Jimmy Akin]

 

[Arch Stanton]

Because that is what you are following.

It could have easily been Antioch. The universal/Catholic Church is the same Church as the Nazarenes/The Way/Christians

Who made the RCC the one true church of Christ?

Christ

Where did they get the authority to do so?

Christ

The reason it is never answered is because they gave it to themselves.

It has always been answered... you are just denying a simple fact.

 

[Alive]

Because that is what you are following. That is what the institution you venerate is called. Roman Catholic Church. It is a religious denomination. It names itself as the universal church by name, but that does not make it the catholic church that is Christ's. I am still waiting to hear from any Catholic the answer to my question. Who made the RCC the one true church of Christ? Where did they get the authority to do so?

The reason it is never answered is because they gave it to themselves. They are their only witness to the claim. And none want to come out and acknowledge that is the case.

Yup…the identity of the RCC was established after Constantine made Christianity one of the religions of the Roman Empire and many beliefs and practices of pagan religions were added.
From there a hierarchical structure was developed that is the epitome of the sin of Nicolaitans and began to subjugate the saints.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Yup…the identity of the RCC was established after Constantine made Christianity one of the religions of the Roman Empire and many beliefs and practices of pagan religions were added.
From there a hierarchical structure was developed that is the epitome of the sin of Nicolaitans and began to subjugate the saints.

Constantine and his rival Licinius issued the Edict of Milan in A.D. 313, which proclaimed religious toleration for Christianity among the other religions in the empire.

He also didn’t create the Catholic Church, which already existed in his day. Indeed, it had already been known by that name for more than 200 years. St. Ignatius of Antioch stated: “Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrneans 8).

 

[Alive]

Constantine and his rival Licinius issued the Edict of Milan in A.D. 313, which proclaimed religious toleration for Christianity among the other religions in the empire.

He also didn’t create the Catholic Church, which already existed in his day. Indeed, it had already been known by that name for more than 200 years. St. Ignatius of Antioch stated: “Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church” (Letter to the Smyrneans 8).

The problem is assigning the one universal Body of Christ made up of every member everywhere to as if it is the same as….to the organization referred to as the RCC.

 

[Arch Stanton]

The problem is assigning the one universal Body of Christ made up of every member everywhere to as if it is the same as….to the organization referred to as the RCC.

That is quite the problem.... see what the sixteenth century gave us? chaos

now we have thousands of competing gospel messages

 

[Eleanor]

Are you able to be corrected?

Are you?

Mt 20:28 - "he came to die as a ransom" (guilt offering, Heb 9:15, 1 Tim 2:6, Isa 53:10)

Jn 19:30 - "It is finished.". . .the ransom PAID. . .in full. . .no other payment owing.

Heb 7:27 - He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Are you?

Yes, by Christ's Catholic Church.