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Question on John 19:30

Carbon said:
Clement of Alexandria (150-211 / 216 A.D.) Also called the bread and wine symbols of the body and blood of Christ, and taught that the communicant received not the physical but the spiritual life of Christ.
Origin (185-253/254 A.D.), likewise, speaks in distinctively spiritual and allegorical terms when referring to the eucharist.

maybe you should reconsider?
Click to expand...
Why?
Ignatius of Antioch​

Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2-7:1 [A.D. 110]).
 
Carbon said:
@Arch Stanton So, the ECF's arent even with the RCC.

Tertullian (155 / 160-240/ 250 A.D.) Spoke of the bread and wine in the eucharist as symbols or figures which represent the body and blood of Christ. He specifically stated that these were not the literal body and blood of the Lord.
When Christ said, "This is my body," Tertullian maintained that Jesus was speaking figuratively and that he consecrated the wine in memory of his blood (Against Marcion 3.19).
Click to expand...
Cyril of Jerusalem​

The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).
 
Arch Stanton said:
That word is mnemosunon. We are talking about a different word - anamnesis [used in the NT referring to a sacrificial offering.]
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I would offer.

A dead sacrifice that returns to field clay (dust and water) ?

Or a living sacrifice. . . God pouring out His unseen Holy Spirit on dying flesh and blood in jeapordy of his own Spirit life with a promise beyond the grave of a new incorruptible body.

He gives us little of His powerful faithfulness calling us you of little faith . Peter when feeling weak prayed increase your labor of love or work of faith strengthen me to do your good will.

His eternal bride .

Beautiful parable "drink blood eat flesh" comparing the things temporal seen to the unseen eternal thing of Christ the husband.

John 6:53-56 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

When the disciples that were following Jesus hoping his dying flesh and blood as Jew could profit. Jesus the prophet informed them his flesh and blood cannot profit for anything . They ended up stopping up thier ears and ran away with no faith that could please God as it is a written .(Sola scriptura)

Those who walked away were not given a understanding of the parable.

They denied the bread of the word and the spirit of it as if Spirt was blood .

The spiritual trustworthy food the apostles knew not of until Christ in them revealed the understanding of the parable "drink blood eat flesh" . using the Son of man, Jesus to outwardly demonstrate his faithful power as a labor of His love.

John 4:33-35King James Version33 Therefore said the disciples one to another, Hath any man brought him ought to eat?34 Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.

A parallel parable drink blood eat flesh it uses David to represent the coming of the Son of man, Jesus and fulfil the promised three days and nights demonstatation of the two working as one empower by the Father, who worked with and in the the Son of man, Jesus .

A demonstration of the sufferings beforehand .When revealed by Christ to David that the sufferings pointed ahead to that three day and night promised demonstration. David was moved. . the blood used to indicate a work was poured out as water it returning to the field of clay

1 Chronnicles11:17-19 And David longed, and said, Oh that one would give me drink of the water of the well of Bethlehem, that is at the gate!
And the three brake through the host of the Philistines, and drew water out of the well of Bethlehem, that was by the gate, and took it, and brought it to David: but David would not drink of it, but poured it out to the Lord.And said, My God forbid it me, that I should do this thing: shall I drink the blood of these men that have put their lives in jeopardy? for with the jeopardy of their lives they brought it. Therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mightiest.

Agin Christ pouring out his Holy Spirt life on dying flesh and blood in jeapordy of his own powerful Spirit

The witness same parable 2 Samuel 23:17

It would seem "it is finished" No need for Limbo /Purgatory
 
Arch Stanton said:
a living sacrifice

It was not finished on the cross
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Yes, it was finished during the 6 days Christ did work. The lamb slain from that very foundation . And not after the promised three days and night demonstration .

It would seem Satan the counterfeiter would make it all one in the same. And destroy prophecy .

That demonstration is over .We can no longer know Christ the anointing Holy Spirit by that demonstration of the Son of man, Jesus .

God is not a racist. He leans towards the right side

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
 
Arch Stanton said:
Cyril of Jerusalem​

The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).
Click to expand...
Again--this is not scripture. It may has well been copied from a cookbook.
 
Arch Stanton said:
The 'It' that we have been discussing.
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When the Lord Jesus said, "It is finished.", he was, obviously, referring to what he accomplished on the cross - the effectual atonement for his people, through his shed blood and and broken body.

Any ongoing "bloodless sacrifice" is blasphemous and is trampling the blood of Christ underfoot, as if he did not accomplish complete atonement on the cross. The Mass is a deplorable disgrace!
 
Alive said:
Again--this is not scripture. It may has well been copied from a cookbook.
Click to expand...
did you forget to tell Carbon the same? :rolleyes:
Carbon said:
Tertullian (155 / 160-240/ 250 A.D.) Spoke of the bread and wine in the eucharist as symbols or figures which represent the body and blood of Christ.
Click to expand...
 
Arch Stanton said:
did you forget to tell Carbon the same? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Carbon said:
Tertullian (155 / 160-240/ 250 A.D.) Spoke of the bread and wine in the eucharist as symbols or figures which represent the body and blood of Christ.
Click to expand...

Tertullian pre-dated the RC organisation by more than a hundred years.
 
Eleanor said:
The demonstration of your assertion is still missing, without which your assertion is without merit.
Click to expand...
Have you demonstrated that your interpretation of 'It...is finished' is correct? Are you able to be corrected?
 
Arch Stanton said:
Have you demonstrated that your interpretation of 'It...is finished' is correct? Are you able to be corrected?
Click to expand...
You can't sidestep a flood.
 
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