Question on John 19:30

[Eleanor]

Christ commanded anamnesis, not mnemosunon.

Remembering is recollection.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Remembering is recollection.

unless it is of the sacrificial offering [anamnesis]

 

[Eleanor]

unless it is of the sacrificial offering [anamnesis]

Which is recollection. . .

 

[Arch Stanton]

Which is recollection. . .

post 8

 

[Eleanor]

post 8

The Lord's Supper is a remembrance (anamnesis) "of me," of calling the person, Jesus himself, to mind.

 

[Arch Stanton]

The Lord's Supper is a remembrance (anamnesis) "of me," of calling the person Jesus himself to mind.

That word is mnemosunon. We are talking about a different word - anamnesis [used in the NT referring to a sacrificial offering.]

 

[Alive]

That word is mnemosunon. We are talking about a different word - anamnesis [used in the NT referring to a sacrificial offering.]

Luke 22:19 (NAS20S) And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body, which is being given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
364. ἀνάμνησις anamnēsis; from 363; remembrance, a reminder: — remembrance(3), reminder(1).

Here in Luke 1:54
Luke 1:54 (NAS20S) “He has given help to His servant Israel, In remembrance of His mercy,
we see
3403. μιμνῄσκομαι mimnēskomai; prob. from a prim. root; to remind, remember, think of: — recall(1), remember(12), remembered(8), remembrance(1), think(1).

 

[Arch Stanton]

Luke 22:19 (NAS20S) And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body, which is being given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”
364. ἀνάμνησις anamnēsis; from 363; remembrance, a reminder: — remembrance(3), reminder(1).

Here in Luke 1:54
Luke 1:54 (NAS20S) “He has given help to His servant Israel, In remembrance of His mercy,
we see
3403. μιμνῄσκομαι mimnēskomai; prob. from a prim. root; to remind, remember, think of: — recall(1), remember(12), remembered(8), remembrance(1), think(1).

The term “remembrance” used at the Last Supper in Greek is “anamnesis” which is only used four times in the New Testament and each refers to a sacrificial offering of both Old and New Covenant (Luke 22:19, 1 Cor 11:24-25, Heb 10:3). The Greek word for remembering someone or something in memorial is “mnemosunon” (Mat. 26:13, Mark 14:9, and Acts 10:4). Jesus commands his Apostles to do this “anamnesis” sacrificial action at the Last Supper and not merely a “mnemosunon” symbolic memorial action. This is demonstrated as being practiced by the Apostles in 1 Corinthians 11 and is also alluded to in Hebrews 13:10 when it speaks about Christians having an “altar”, which by definition is used for sacrificial offerings and not for “remembering” (mnemosunon) a previous sacrifice, in which they partake in (See also 1 Cor 10:16-17).

 

[Alive]

364. ἀνάμνησις; anamnēsis, anamnēseōs, hē (anamimnēskō), a remembering, recollection: eis tēn emēn anamnēsin to call me (affectionately) to remembrance, Luke 22:19 (WH reject the passage); 1 Cor. 11:24f, en autais (namely, thusiais) anamnēsis hamartiōn in offering sacrifices there is a remembrance of sins, i.e. the memory of sins committed is revived by the sacrifices, Heb. 10:3. In Greek writings from Plato down.*

The passage obviously speaks to remembering Christs sacrifice--body and blood.
There is no need to take it further.

 

[Eleanor]

That word is mnemosunon.

Contraire. . .

We are talking about a different word - anamnesis [used in the NT referring to a sacrificial offering.]

The Greek word in Lk 22:19, ". . .do this in remembrance of me" is anamnesis, as well as in 1 Co 11:24, 25.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Contraire. . .

The Greek word in Lk 22:19, ". . .do this in remembrance of me" is anamnesis, as well as in 1 Co 11:24, 25.

anamnesis is for offering

 

[Arch Stanton]

Contraire. . .

The Greek word in Lk 22:19, ". . .do this in remembrance of me" is anamnesis, as well as in 1 Co 11:24, 25.

and....

The sacrificial nature of the Last Supper is further revealed by Jesus’ command to “do this” (Luke 22:19). The Greek reads poieite touto. In the Greek version of the Old Testament (the Septuagint), the word poieo, which is the root for poieite, is translated as “offer” with regard to offering sacrifices:

• “Now this is what you shall offer [Greek, poieseis] upon the altar: two lambs a year old day by day continually” (Exod. 29:38).
• “Draw near to the altar, and offer [Greek, poieson] your sin offering and your burnt offering, and make atonement for yourself and for the people” (Lev. 9:7).
• “I will offer [Greek, poies?] to thee burnt offerings of fatlings, with the smoke of the sacrifice of rams” (Psalm 66:15).

If Jesus is commanding the apostles to poiete (offer) the Eucharist, then he intends for it to be a sacrifice. [CA]

 

[Eleanor]

and....
The sacrificial nature of the Last Supper is further revealed by Jesus’ command to “do this” (Luke 22:19). The Greek reads poieite touto. In the Greek version of the Old Testament (the Septuagint), the word poieo, which is the root for poieite, is translated as “offer” with regard to offering sacrifices:
“Now this is what you shall offer [Greek, poieseis] upon the altar: two lambs a year old day by day continually” (Exod. 29:38).
“Draw near to the altar, and offer [Greek, poieson] your sin offering and your burnt offering, and make atonement for yourself and for the people” (Lev. 9:7).
“I will offer [Greek, poies?] to thee burnt offerings of fatlings, with the smoke of the sacrifice of rams” (Psalm 66:15).
If Jesus is commanding the apostles to poiete (offer) the Eucharist, then he intends for it to be a sacrifice. [CA]

Who made that rule?

See post #29.

 

[Alive]

and....

The sacrificial nature of the Last Supper is further revealed by Jesus’ command to “do this” (Luke 22:19). The Greek reads poieite touto. In the Greek version of the Old Testament (the Septuagint), the word poieo, which is the root for poieite, is translated as “offer” with regard to offering sacrifices:

• “Now this is what you shall offer [Greek, poieseis] upon the altar: two lambs a year old day by day continually” (Exod. 29:38).
• “Draw near to the altar, and offer [Greek, poieson] your sin offering and your burnt offering, and make atonement for yourself and for the people” (Lev. 9:7).
• “I will offer [Greek, poies?] to thee burnt offerings of fatlings, with the smoke of the sacrifice of rams” (Psalm 66:15).

If Jesus is commanding the apostles to poiete (offer) the Eucharist, then he intends for it to be a sacrifice. [CA]

If Jesus is commanding the apostles to poiete (offer) the Eucharist, then he intends for it to be a sacrifice. [CA]
Now you are adding to scripture what is not present.

 

[Arch Stanton]

Who made that rule?

See post #29.

see 32 as well as 28 again

 

[Arch Stanton]

If Jesus is commanding the apostles to poiete (offer) the Eucharist, then he intends for it to be a sacrifice. [CA]
Now you are adding to scripture what is not present.

The apostles and the early church understood this to be a one time sacrifice....

 

[Alive]

This refutes the doctrine you espouse.
“Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES ARE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

“THIS IS THE COVENANT WHICH I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, DECLARES THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEARTS, AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR MIND,”

He then says,”
(Hebrews 10:11-16 NAS20)

 

[Arch Stanton]

This refutes the doctrine you espouse.
“Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins; but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD, waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES ARE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,

“THIS IS THE COVENANT WHICH I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, DECLARES THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEARTS, AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR MIND,”

He then says,”
(Hebrews 10:11-16 NAS20)

CCC 1410 It is Christ himself, the eternal high priest of the New Covenant who, acting through the ministry of the priests, offers the Eucharistic sacrifice. And it is the same Christ, really present under the species of bread and wine, who is the offering of the Eucharistic sacrifice.

 

[Arch Stanton]

CCC 1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: "The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different." "And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner."

 

[Alive]

CCC 1410 It is Christ himself, the eternal high priest of the New Covenant who, acting through the ministry of the priests, offers the Eucharistic sacrifice. And it is the same Christ, really present under the species of bread and wine, who is the offering of the Eucharistic sacrifice.

I understand the erroneous teaching. Unfortunately, it is extra biblical.