Question for Arminians and Calvinists on foreknowledge

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Sure I did.

Well no. You've simply asserted such. But you go.

Are you interested or not? Saying you're not interested in the Scripture is telling.

Ok...so you can't. Thanks for playing.

I've already dealt extensively with this today in this thread. Find somewhere you disagree and quote me. I see no reason to endless repeat myself.

Then you shouldn't have responded to me. You and I are conversing. Or were. Really it's in your best interest to give up at this point because you have no-where to go with this.

 

[fastfredy0]

Do you accept the Divinity of Jesus Christ?

Yes, though when you get to the details Christ had two natures so one could split hairs as some attributes of Christ's human nature do not coincide with the attributes of God..... but, lot's of verses attesting to the fact that Christ was/is God.

 

[Eleanor]

You cannot draw that from what I've put forward here. Try again.


I'm not interested in Hebrews for this little kerfluffle.

Been watchin' too much Judge Judy.

I could turn that around as well with the word "endure" but my verse is sufficient. If all you have is "nuh uh" and running elsewhere then you have nothing to stand on. Here is where we are:

Matthew 26:39
And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will.”

 

[fastfredy0]

Takes @praise_yeshua to the corner of the prize fight ring and frantically waves cooling towel over him .... "tough fight champ, 3 against one. Hope you took typing in school".
*giggle*

 

[Eleanor]

Possible sarcasm here ... giggle

Never!

 

[fastfredy0]

Re: kerfluffle

Been watchin' too much Judge Judy.

Yeah, that's where I picked up the word too.

 

[Ritajanice]

Re: kerfluffle

Yeah, that's where I picked up the word too.

 

[Eleanor]

Yes, I was showing that. It's not like it was a Play, it revealed His humanity.

Well, hmmm, that's a bit incoherent. You got a crayon version, something I can comprende?

'fraid not.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I disagree.

Not within the united, Perfect and Eternal Godhead.

Your thinking lies within a finite framework, finite terms, and within the parameters of fallen humanity.

So you believe the Son desired to act contrary to the Father? Submission as being used in this conversation has a specific English definition. I posted the English definition.

Submit = accept or yield to a superior force or to the authority or will of another person.

Do you deny this definition?

 

[CrazyCalvinistUncle]

Re: kerfluffle

Yeah, that's where I picked up the word too.

Where? I picked it up from a friend long long ago.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Takes @praise_yeshua to the corner of the prize fight ring and frantically waves cooling towel over him .... "tough fight champ, 3 against one. Hope you took typing in school".
*hardy-har-har-har!!!*

Yes. I did. However, those typewriter were different from phones.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It is clear from the Scriptures that the Holy Trinity planned the suffering of Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world. Foreknowledge before man was ever created. The idea that the Son desires to contradict this Eternal Plan of the Holy Trinity is contrary to the Scriptures.

Some here are demanding that we believe that Christ actually asked God the Father to act contrary to THEIR plan. That is not true to the Scriptures.

 

[Eleanor]

It is clear from the Scriptures that the Holy Trinity planned the suffering of Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world. Foreknowledge before man was ever created. The idea that the Son desires to contradict this Eternal Plan of the Holy Trinity is contrary to the Scriptures.

Some here are demanding that we believe that Christ actually asked God the Father to act contrary to THEIR plan. That is not true to the Scriptures.

The human Jesus was not consulted regarding the plan.

 

[Arial]

Jn 3:18 is a brick wall.
Jn 3:36 is a brick wall.
Eph 2:8-9 is a brick wall.
Ro 3:28 is a brick wall, etc.

No. No. No. No. None are a brick wall. No scripture is. So what do those scriptures have to do with the conversation?

The conversation is whether or not Jesus ever willed something contrary to God's will. The brick wall is that you take the wording of one scripture, separate it from the rest of the truth taught in scripture and say it shows He did sometimes have a will opposed to God's will. In spite of the fact that you have been shown that such a thing is impossible since Jesus is God. It is contradictory to scripture and who Jesus is.

You are unable to see that passage of Gethsemane as Jesus' cry of His humanity about what He was about to face. Inadvertently you have blended the two natures and at the same time denied the deity of Christ. I know that you do not believe either of those things but you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge what is being said to you. You don't stop fighting about it and dig your heels in. That is the brick wall. And those who have decided you are right and agree with you do the same. So how is a person supposed to learn anything if they never admit there is a more accurate way to view something?

 

[Arial]

I seek not my own will but the will of the Father @Eleanor ?...in the scripture above I posted....

So, he is saying he is seeking the will of the Father?

Not that his will is in line with the Fathers?

Did Jesus go willingly to the cross? If the answer is yes then His will was the same as the Father's. Not to mention He came from the Father having full knowledge of what He was to do and how it was to be done. All that before He was begotten as the man Jesus in the womb of Mary.

 

[Arial]

The human Jesus was not consulted regarding the plan.

That also contradicts almost every word spoken by Jesus in the gospels.

 

[Eleanor]

No. No. No. No. None are a brick wall. No scripture is. So what do those scriptures have to do with the conversation?

It goes to the general statement of post #270.

The conversation is whether or not Jesus ever willed something contrary to God's will. The brick wall is that you take the wording of one scripture, separate it from the rest of the truth taught in scripture and say it shows He did sometimes have a will opposed to God's will. In spite of the fact that you have been shown that such a thing is impossible since Jesus is God. It is contradictory to scripture and who Jesus is.

You are unable to see that passage of Gethsemane as Jesus' cry of His humanity about what He was about to face. Inadvertently you have blended the two natures and at the same time denied the deity of Christ. I know that you do not believe either of those things but you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge what is being said to you. You don't stop fighting about it and dig your heels in. That is the brick wall. And those who have decided you are right and agree with you do the same. So how is a person supposed to learn anything if they never admit there is a more accurate way to view something?

 

[Arial]

I seek not my own will but the will of the Father @Eleanor ?...in the scripture above I posted....

So, he is saying he is seeking the will of the Father?

Not that his will is in line with the Fathers?

If Jesus and the Father are One, how can His will be anything other than the will of the Father? One isolated misunderstood scripture does not a doctrine make. And if the doctrine that comes out of an isolated scripture (and Gethsemane is the only place that can be misinterpreted to be saying Jesus' will was not always in line with the Father's) contradicts things that are clear in the Bible, and the doctrine being put forth by you and Eleanor does, then it is wrong.

Support your belief with other scriptures.

 

[Arial]

It goes to the general statement of post #270.

The text of scripture is never a brick wall. It is people's interpretations of said scripture that become a wall so wide and high nothing can penetrate it.

Relevance? I trust you have figured it out just fine. (post 270. Added for clarification by me.)

How?

 

[Eleanor]

How?

How do you go over, around, through or dismantle the text of those Scriptures?