Question for Arminians and Calvinists on foreknowledge

[Ritajanice]

That is a statement of UNITY. Not a statement of subjecting an alternate will to another contrary will.

This is all about perspective. You have the perspective that Jesus must have a different will than the Father.

He came to do the will of the Father...he didn’t have the same will as the Father.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yes, he always wanted to do the will of the Father, but it was so fearful and overwhelming that his human nature almost broke under it, and an angel had to be sent to strengthen and enable him.

Really? You believe the angel had to strength the will of the Son? The angel ministered to the body of Christ.

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, he always wanted to do the will of the Father, but it was so fearful and overwhelming that his human nature almost broke under it, and an angel had to be sent to strengthen and enable him.

Brilliant.brilliant, brilliant, Amen!...that’s also my understanding of it from the Holy Spirit to my spirit....imo/ belief.

That’s all I needed to know..thanks @Eleanor ..happy discussion....I’m off on my merry way...lol.

 

[praise_yeshua]

He came to do the will of the Father...he didn’t have the same will as the Father.

There you go......

 

[Eleanor]

That is a statement of UNITY. Not a statement of subjecting an alternate will to another contrary will.

This is all about perspective. You have the perspective that Jesus must have a different will than the Father. This is common topic when it comes Apologetics. There are plenty of people out that that use what you just said to deny the Divinity of Christ.

Which is no reason to deny what Jesus plainly stated in the Garden of Gethsemane, "not my will but thine be done."

 

[praise_yeshua]

Brilliant.brilliant, brilliant, Amen!...that’s also my understanding of it from the Holy Spirit to my spirit....imo/ belief.

There are simple nuisances to the teaching of the Hypostatic Union and then there is THIS......

 

[praise_yeshua]

Which is no reason to deny what Jesus plainly stated in the Garden of Gethsemane, "not my will but thine be done."

It is not WHY I believe different than you. I stated the fact that many people use this argument to deny the Divinity of Christ. They use the same arguments you are making.

 

[Arial]

I said...he submitted to the will of the Father....Jesus asked the Father to take his suffering away...if his will was as one as you say it was...why did he ask to have his suffering taken away?

This is the will of His humanity. He was fully human as well as fully divine. The human will does not want to suffer period. Who says, "Give me suffering please." It is painful. Jesus felt pain. And not just for the physical pain and shame He was about to face but the ultimate pain, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" But it was not a will to sin. And more than He desired His will, He desired the Father's will. Therefore we cannot take this passage as meaning Jesus had a different will than the Father.

His will was not in line with the Father’s then was it!?

It was exactly in line with the Father's will or He would not have said "Your will be done." Think about it.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Which is no reason to deny what Jesus plainly stated in the Garden of Gethsemane, "not my will but thine be done."

You're present them as a reason to seperate the will of the Father and the Son. There is only ONE will. Only one.

 

[Eleanor]

It is not WHY I believe different than you. I stated the fact that many people use this argument to deny the Divinity of Christ. They use the same arguments you are making.

The point of that fact?

 

[praise_yeshua]

This is the will of His humanity. He was fully human as well as fully divine. The human will does not want to suffer period.

It was contrary to the nature of Divinity. This isn't just about the flesh. Which is why we hold the position that BOTH are a perfect UNION.

 

[Ritajanice]

This is the will of His humanity. He was fully human as well as fully divine. The human will does not want to suffer period. Who says, "Give me suffering please." It is painful. Jesus felt pain. And not just for the physical pain and shame He was about to face but the ultimate pain, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" But it was not a will to sin. And more than He desired His will, He desired the Father's will. Therefore we cannot take this passage as meaning Jesus had a different will than the Father.

It was exactly in line with the Father's will or He would not have said "Your will be done." Think about it.

I’ve already thought about it...I’ve voiced my opinion/ belief....and, with respect..it’s not inline with what you believe...I never involve myself in arguing until the cows come home as they say here in the UK....I’ve got the answer I needed to hear/ understand..enjoy the rest of your day...

 

[praise_yeshua]

The point of that fact?

That you agree. That those types of argument present the fact that Jesus and the Father are not One. That the Incarnation is not fully Divine.

 

[Eleanor]

This is the will of His humanity. He was fully human as well as fully divine. The human will does not want to suffer period. Who says, "Give me suffering please." It is painful. Jesus felt pain. And not just for the physical pain and shame He was about to face but the ultimate pain, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" But it was not a will to sin. And more than He desired His will, He desired the Father's will. Therefore we cannot take this passage as meaning Jesus had a different will than the Father.

It was exactly in line with the Father's will or He would not have said "Your will be done." Think about it.

Or did he clearly express the desire of his own will, and then submit his will to the Father's.
The language of the text is clear.

 

[Arial]

I haven’t got a clue what you are saying here...I’ll let you have the last word ...

It's called putting one foot in front of the other to do what needs to be done no matter how painful mentally and physically it is.

 

[Eleanor]

That you agree. That those types of argument present the fact that Jesus and the Father are not One. That the Incarnation is not fully Divine.

Guilt by association?

 

[Ritajanice]

It's called putting one foot in front of the other to do what needs to be done no matter how painful mentally and physically it is.

Indeed and we have a perfect example of that.....Jesus!,.

 

[Arial]

Correct, and Jesus called it his will (not my will, but thine be done) to have the cup pass from him.
Not talking about sin, talking about wills.
Sin is choosing your will over God's will.

When I gave that response the conversation was about temptation. As you can see from the post it was responding to. You were giving Christ's prayer before His crucifixion as Him being tempted in actuality (internally.)

 

[Arial]

So, am I right in saying that Jesus will came in line with the will of the Father?

It was never not in line with the Father's will.

 

[Ritajanice]

It was never not in line with the Father's will.

In your opinion/ belief...in the garden of Gethsemane....