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Question for Arminians and Calvinists on foreknowledge

Which doesn't mean he didn't desire it, as in the Garden of Gethsemane, where he most definitely desired it, making it an actual temptation to him, and which is the meaning of being tempted, as Eve desired it, which was the nature of her, and all, temptation.
It is no actual temptation if it is not desired and if it does not require an exercise of the will to refuse to yield to it.
In the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus did not desire to sin. He desired to not undergo the suffering that was to come. Who wouldn't have that desire? He had no desire to not obey God, to not trust Him, and that is what sin is. If He had had any desire to not do God's will, He would have in that blink of an eye disqualified Himself as the Redeemer.

A temptation is something that is offered or presented. That is not a person committing sin. The sin is the person following the desire that is in them to yield to the temptation offered.
 
If you study the Greek construct of that verse, you will see there are two different words translated will here.
It's the same Greek word in all places, Luke using the noun form, thelema (the will of me), while Matthew and Mark use the verb form, theolo (I will).
 
So you do believe the Incarnation presented a Christ that had an alternate will to the Father?

There are only two choices here.
No, there is the choice to believe the testimony of the Scriptures in the Gethsemane account.
Will in the sense of strong human desire and preference, not in the sense of opposition.
 
No, there is the choice to believe the testimony of the Scriptures in the Gethsemane account.
Will in the sense of strong human desire and preference, not in the sense of opposition.

You referenced two choices.

Then we agree. The strong desire not to face the shame presenting itself.
 
Jesus hated the shame of the cross..... more than hated it. It was contrary to His nature.
Got explains it well.

What is the meaning of “despising the shame” in Hebrews 12:2?​

despising the shame
ANSWER

Jesus is our inspiration and finest example in every challenge of life. Scripture encourages us to “lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God” (Hebrews 12:1–2, ESV).

The writer of Hebrews compares believers to athletes in a race. Jesus has gone before us in this race. He has crossed the finish line of faith in victorious triumph and is now seated on the heavenly throne at God’s right hand. To reach our goal, we must keep our eyes on Jesus. The Lord’s steadfast endurance and unfaltering obedience establish the ideal pattern for us to follow whenever we struggle. If we keep Him always in our sight, we will find the strength and courage to endure. Moreover, we can live confidently, knowing that He who began His good work in us will continue carrying it to completion until the day when Christ returns (Philippians 1:6).

Jesus endured far more than we ever will when He obeyed His Father and undertook the cross. The cross involved extreme suffering and unimaginable shame for our Lord: “He was despised and rejected—a man of sorrows, acquainted with deepest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way. He was despised, and we did not care. Yet it was our weaknesses he carried; it was our sorrows that weighed him down. And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God, a punishment for his own sins! But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed” (Isaiah 53:3–5, NLT).

Despising the shame is the same as disregarding it. Jesus chose to disregard or ignore the shame and disgrace that the cross would bring to Him. He let Himself be despised by humans as He took upon Himself all the sins of the world. Imagine the mortification the sinless, spotless Lamb of God must have felt! Yet Jesus chose to disregard or despise the shame of the cross. He obediently finished the work that God had given Him to do (John 17:4).

What was it that empowered Jesus to endure the cross, despising the shame? It was His future-focused faith, which is the primary subject of this segment of Hebrews. The Lord concentrated on “the joy that was set before him.” He knew by faith that God would not leave Him in the grave forever but would raise Him back to life (see Psalm 16:8–10; Acts 2:24–33) and exalt Him to glory in heaven (see Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:34–36).

The joy set before Jesus—the motivation that enabled Him to endure—included the salvation that His sacrifice would bring: “For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time” (Hebrews 10:10, NLT). Jesus acknowledged the disgrace and humiliation of the cross, but these perils were of no consequence to Him. Instead, He kept His eyes on the coming glory and the salvation of souls that His death on the cross would make possible (see John 3:14–16; Acts 5:30–31; Romans 5:9–10; 10:9–10; 1 John 4:9–10; 2 Timothy 1:9–10; Revelation 7:9–10).

The faith heroes showcased in Hebrews 11 also lived for the future and the joy set before them, enabling them to endure (Hebrews 11:10, 14–16, 24–27). The apostle Paul did likewise: “I am willing to endure anything if it will bring salvation and eternal glory in Christ Jesus to those God has chosen” (2 Timothy 2:10, NLT). We can overcome faintheartedness and persevere in the face of hardship, “despising the shame,” when we keep our attention fixed on Jesus (see 2 Timothy 2:11–12; Romans 6:8; 8:17; Hebrews 10:36). He is the joy set before us that enables us to press on and run the race set before us (Philippians 3:12–14).
 
Precisely my point. . .you aren't tempted in actuality.

Scripture reports Jesus as being tempted as we are, which is in actuality.
So you are saying Jesus was tempted in actuality, that He actually had the desire to obey the temptations of Satan and simply didn't?

Last I checked it was Jesus who said that in itself was sin. To look on a woman with lust was committing adultery in his heart. To hate our brother was murder.
 
Got explains it well.

What is the meaning of “despising the shame” in Hebrews 12:2?​

despising the shame
ANSWER

Jesus is our inspiration and finest example in every challenge of life. Scripture encourages us to “lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God” (Hebrews 12:1–2, ESV).

The writer of Hebrews compares believers to athletes in a race. Jesus has gone before us in this race. He has crossed the finish line of faith in victorious triumph and is now seated on the heavenly throne at God’s right hand. To reach our goal, we must keep our eyes on Jesus. The Lord’s steadfast endurance and unfaltering obedience establish the ideal pattern for us to follow whenever we struggle. If we keep Him always in our sight, we will find the strength and courage to endure. Moreover, we can live confidently, knowing that He who began His good work in us will continue carrying it to completion until the day when Christ returns (Philippians 1:6).

Jesus endured far more than we ever will when He obeyed His Father and undertook the cross. The cross involved extreme suffering and unimaginable shame for our Lord: “He was despised and rejected—a man of sorrows, acquainted with deepest grief. We turned our backs on him and looked the other way. He was despised, and we did not care. Yet it was our weaknesses he carried; it was our sorrows that weighed him down. And we thought his troubles were a punishment from God, a punishment for his own sins! But he was pierced for our rebellion, crushed for our sins. He was beaten so we could be whole. He was whipped so we could be healed” (Isaiah 53:3–5, NLT).

Despising the shame is the same as disregarding it. Jesus chose to disregard or ignore the shame and disgrace that the cross would bring to Him. He let Himself be despised by humans as He took upon Himself all the sins of the world. Imagine the mortification the sinless, spotless Lamb of God must have felt! Yet Jesus chose to disregard or despise the shame of the cross. He obediently finished the work that God had given Him to do (John 17:4).

What was it that empowered Jesus to endure the cross, despising the shame? It was His future-focused faith, which is the primary subject of this segment of Hebrews. The Lord concentrated on “the joy that was set before him.” He knew by faith that God would not leave Him in the grave forever but would raise Him back to life (see Psalm 16:8–10; Acts 2:24–33) and exalt Him to glory in heaven (see Psalm 110:1; Acts 2:34–36).

The joy set before Jesus—the motivation that enabled Him to endure—included the salvation that His sacrifice would bring: “For God’s will was for us to be made holy by the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ, once for all time” (Hebrews 10:10, NLT). Jesus acknowledged the disgrace and humiliation of the cross, but these perils were of no consequence to Him. Instead, He kept His eyes on the coming glory and the salvation of souls that His death on the cross would make possible (see John 3:14–16; Acts 5:30–31; Romans 5:9–10; 10:9–10; 1 John 4:9–10; 2 Timothy 1:9–10; Revelation 7:9–10).

The faith heroes showcased in Hebrews 11 also lived for the future and the joy set before them, enabling them to endure (Hebrews 11:10, 14–16, 24–27). The apostle Paul did likewise: “I am willing to endure anything if it will bring salvation and eternal glory in Christ Jesus to those God has chosen” (2 Timothy 2:10, NLT). We can overcome faintheartedness and persevere in the face of hardship, “despising the shame,” when we keep our attention fixed on Jesus (see 2 Timothy 2:11–12; Romans 6:8; 8:17; Hebrews 10:36). He is the joy set before us that enables us to press on and run the race set before us (Philippians 3:12–14).

"GOT" is not the best source of information. They mention nothing about nature. They should. Which is my primary point here. Dealing with the nature of God in the Incarnation. Thank you for the conversation. I'm busy for a few days but I hope to return. Thanks again.
 
"GOT" is not the best source of information. They mention nothing about nature. They should. Which is my primary point here. Dealing with the nature of God in the Incarnation. Thank you for the conversation. I'm busy for a few days but I hope to return. Thanks again.
Got is a great source of information, imo...
 
In the Garden of Gethsemane Jesus did not desire to sin. He desired to not undergo the suffering that was to come. Who wouldn't have that desire? He had no desire to not obey God, to not trust Him, and that is what sin is. If He had had any desire to not do God's will, He would have in that blink of an eye disqualified Himself as the Redeemer.

A temptation is something that is offered or presented. That is not a person committing sin. The sin is the person following the desire that is in them to yield to the temptation offered.
Correct, and Jesus called it his will (not my will, but thine be done) to have the cup pass from him.
Not talking about sin, talking about wills.
Sin is choosing your will over God's will.
 
Correct, and Jesus called it his will (not my will, but thine be done) to have the cup pass from him.
Not talking about sin, talking about wills.
Sin is choosing your will over God's will.
So, am I right in saying that Jesus will came in line with the will of the Father?
 
You referenced two choices.

Then we agree. The strong desire not to face the shame presenting itself.
It matters not the reason for the different will (thelo).
The point is the incongruency between them.
Jesus chose the Father's will over his own different will.
 
Correct, and Jesus called it his will (not my will, but thine be done) to have the cup pass from him.
Not talking about sin, talking about wills.
Sin is choosing your will over God's will.

However, you are clearing saying that Jesus had a contrary will to the Father. That is what you're saying with statements such as this.
 
As Jesus said: “Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do; for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.” [John 5:19.] He came into this life to do the will of his Father, and not his own will.

So, he came to do the Father’s will.....
 
It matters not the reason for the different will (thelo).
The point is the incongruency between them.
Jesus chose the Father's will over his own different will.

Sure it does. They was no issue with 'incongruence" between the Son and the Father.
 
As Jesus said: “Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do; for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.” [John 5:19.] He came into this life to do the will of his Father, and not his own will.
That is a statement of UNITY. Not a statement of subjecting an alternate will to another contrary will.

This is all about perspective. You have the perspective that Jesus must have a different will than the Father. This is common topic when it comes Apologetics. There are plenty of people out that that use what you just said to deny the Divinity of Christ.
 
It matters not the reason for the different will (thelo).
The point is the incongruency between them.
Jesus chose the Father's will over his own different will.
That’s what I believe.

Jesus even said he came to do the Father’s will...not his own will..which imo makes perfect sense.
 
So, am I right in saying that Jesus will came in line with the will of the Father?
Yes, he always wanted to do the will of the Father, but it was so fearful and overwhelming that his human nature almost broke under it, and an angel had to be sent to strengthen and enable him.
 
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