Psalm 72 - The Kingdom of God Soon to be Established on Earth

[Eleanor]

It did. None of them were mistaken on that point. Church tradition has interpreted the apostolic teaching incorrectly for many years.

Non-responsive to my argument:

All of the cosmic and earthly events above and
1) not a scintilla of it in an historical record anywhere?
2) And while all the dead of the earth were risen, the elect were raptured in their glorified bodies, what about the risen non-elect?
What happened to them?

 

[3 Resurrections]

The destruction of the heavens and earth is the end of time.
The new heavens and new earth are of eternity.

WE are currently in that New Heavens and New Earth. You aren't catching the time-relevance of Hebrews 12:26 in which God had "NOW" promised to shake not only the earth, but also heaven, so that what could not be shaken would remain. That word "NOW" applied to the first-century readers of Hebrews 12:26 - not us today.

Isaiah 65's and 2 Peter 3's NHNE was not describing the eternal state. The presence of sinners and the death of sinners and the godly were still going to take place within that NHNE. Also the birth of children, which is NOT a feature of the eternal state. Also prayers to God being heard, which would not even be necessary if we were in His presence in an after-life existence.

 

[Eleanor]

WE are currently in that New Heavens and New Earth.

You think this fallen sinful earth is the home of righteousness?

And when were the heaves and earth destroyed by fire?

Are you serious?

Non-responsive to my argument:
All of the cosmic and earthly events above and
1) not a scintilla of it in an historical record anywhere?
2) And while all the dead of the earth were risen, the elect were raptured in their glorified bodies, what about the risen non-elect?
What happened to them?

 

[3 Resurrections]

Non-responsive to my argument:
All of the above and
1) not a scintilla of it in an historical record anywhere?
2) And while all the dead of the earth were risen, the elect were raptured in their glorified bodies, what about the risen non-elect?
What happened to them?

You sound as if you are interpreting the terms of the 1 Thessalonians 4 "rapture" incorrectly, like most everyone else. There is no promise whatever in scripture that grants a massive translation of the living saints into glorified bodies before they are "raptured" to heaven. The "change" of the saints' bodies into immortality and incorruptibility is given to the believing DEAD bodies of believers - not to those who haven't died yet. ALL are appointed to die the one time, just as Christ did, as the rule in Hebrews 9:27-28 tells us. And yes, there is archaeological evidence that Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives back in AD 70, just as Zechariah 14 predicted.

The souls of the "non-elect" in the judgment were never granted a physical restoration of their bodies. Without the covering of Christ's vicarious righteousness, their bodies would "perish" by being left to disintegrate in the dust of the grave, and God would likewise destroy their souls in that judgment. Sorry, King Tut.

You think this fallen sinful earth is the home of righteousness?

And when were the heaves and earth destroyed by fire?

Are you serious?

I am quite serious. Christ presently rules now "in the midst of His enemies". That means righteousness dwells in this planet in the persons of Spirit-indwelt believers living in the middle of Christ's enemies, of whom God is constantly converting his elect as children of God from among that enemy population. The kingdom of God is in a constant state of growth, as Christ promised, with "living stones" being regularly "built up" as that holy temple unto the Lord.

God, as the "consuming fire" that He is, turned the city of Jerusalem into the "Lake of Fire" for the city's "second death" in the AD 66-70 period - a duplicate of its first death under the Babylonian invasion back in 586 BC. Josephus also testified that anyone looking on from the outside of Jerusalem would have thought the entire city was engulfed in literal flames. It's just that when people read the word "earth" being destroyed by fire, they presume it is speaking of the entire planet being burned into non-existence, and that is not what the prophecy intended to portray. "Earth" is "tes ges" in the Greek, which predominantly refers to the land of Israel in particular, and not the world at large.

The condition of the "heavens and the earth" being burned up means a couple of things. The Jews considered their temple to be both the "heavens and the earth" where God in heaven met and communicated with His people the Jews on earth through that temple's operations. This temple system was entirely burned up physically speaking by the close of AD 70, though God considered it to be a dead, defunct system ever since Christ's crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension that day.

In the second sense of the "heavens and the earth" being burned up and "changed", the conditions in heaven itself changed with the resurrected saints finally being allowed access to heaven's temple in AD 70. This was a state in heaven's realm which had never existed before then. Also, the conditions in the earth were changed for all time by the destruction of the Satanic realm on the earth, so that no longer would humanity be plagued by the presence of these creatures. This was a totally new reality that had never existed before AD 70.

God once said that His "fire is in Zion, and His furnace in Jerusalem" in Isaiah 31:9. Jerusalem was the location for the "furnace of fire" or the "Lake of Fire" which had its besieged citizens weeping and gnashing their teeth at the torments that the AD 66-70 period brought for them to experience. One of those torments was having the entire Satanic realm imprisoned within the city for the duration of the "Great Tribulation" from AD 66-70, which would never be duplicated again on earth, once God destroyed that entire Satanic realm within the city by means of His consuming fire.

 

[Arial]

There are many non-traditional Christian denominations that use the same words as orthodoxy by mean something entirely different by them than is meant by orthodoxy. This can be very confusing. Just to clear up some of the fog I post some of the beliefs of of the Christadelphian, from learnreligions.com.

The Holy Spirit is only a force of God in Christadelphian beliefs because they deny the Trinity doctrine. He is not a distinct Person.
Jesus Christ is a man, Christadelphians say, not God. He did not exist prior to his earthly incarnation.

Christadelphians reject the doctrine of Satan as the source of evil. They believe God is the source of both good and evil (Isaiah 45:5-7).

The Trinity is unbiblical, according to Christadelphian beliefs, therefore, they reject it. God is one and does not exist in three Persons.

 

[Eleanor]

You sound as if you are interpreting the terms of the 1 Thessalonians 4 "rapture" incorrectly, like most everyone else. There is no promise whatever in scripture that grants a massive translation of the living saints into glorified bodies before they are "raptured" to heaven.

Contraire. . it's called the resurrection (1 Th 4:15-17).

The "change" of the saints' bodies into immortality and incorruptibility is given to the believing DEAD bodies of believers - not to those who haven't died yet.

Not according to the teaching of the apostle Paul, where the believers who do not sleep (die) are changed at the resurrection (1 Co 15:51-52).

ALL are appointed to die the one time, just as Christ did, as the rule in Hebrews 9:27-28 tells us.

Relevance?

And yes, there is archaeological evidence that Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives back in AD 70, just as Zechariah 14 predicted.

What archaeological evidence would that be?

The souls of the "non-elect" in the judgment were never granted a physical restoration of their bodies.

And yet there are goats (non-elect) at the judgment (Mt 25:32-33) following the resurrection, rapture and second coming, all occurring together.

Without the covering of Christ's vicarious righteousness, their bodies would "perish" by being left to disintegrate in the dust of the grave, and God would likewise destroy their souls in that judgment. Sorry, King Tut.

King Tut thinks there is more contra-NT narrative here than he cares to engage.

 

[EarlyActs]

Psalm 72 - The Kingdom of God Soon to be Established on Earth

Psalm 72 (KJV - with headings added)
A Psalm for Solomon

The King's Son
1 Give the king thy judgments, O God, and thy righteousness unto the king’s son.
2 He shall judge thy people with righteousness, and thy poor with judgment.
3 The mountains shall bring peace to the people, and the little hills, by righteousness.

The Blessings of His Reign
4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.
6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.

A World-Wide Kingdom
8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.
9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.

The Nations Pay Homage
10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.
12 For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.
13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.
14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.
15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.

The Earth Bountiful
16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.
17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

The Whole World Filled with His Glory
18 Blessed be the LORD God, the God of Israel, who only doeth wondrous things.
19 And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.
20 The prayers of David the son of Jesse are ended.

Psalm 72 is another clear evidence that the Scriptures teach that the Kingdom of God will be established upon the earth at the return of Jesus. This final public prayer of David, although addressed to Solomon, looks beyond his time to the greater son of David, Jesus Christ, who will return to establish his Kingdom on earth, replacing the present kingdoms of men Daniel 2:44. Luke records the words that Gabriel spoke to Mary concerning Jesus' future rule
Luke 1:32-33 (KJV): 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
Jesus will reign over the "house of Jacob" when he returns and "turns away ungodliness from Jacob" Romans 11:26.

The promises made to David concerning his son and David's throne are recorded in 2 Samuel 7:12-16. They state also that God would be his Father, and this is shown in its fulfillment in Luke 1:35, Jesus is the Son of God. This is the qualification for Jesus to be heir over God's dominion, God's kingdom, not only because he is God's Son by birth, but he revealed all the qualities of God's character, wisdom and love during his ministry, suffering and crucifixion. These qualities now coupled with all that he has received in his resurrection and exaltation are what is needed to fulfill Psalm 72 in the Kingdom of God, soon to be established upon the earth Genesis 1:26, Psalm 8:6, Isaiah 2:1-4, Daniel 2:35,44, Matthew 11:25-30, 21:37-38, 42-44, Acts 3:19-21.

Kind regards
Trevor

Acts 2 says it was established by then (it was 'among us' already). David saw the resurrection as the enthronement. That means the point at which all rulers and fishermen on earth owe Christ their obedience; not how obedient they were. Don't look for external signs and features.

 

[EarlyActs]

You sound as if you are interpreting the terms of the 1 Thessalonians 4 "rapture" incorrectly, like most everyone else. There is no promise whatever in scripture that grants a massive translation of the living saints into glorified bodies before they are "raptured" to heaven. The "change" of the saints' bodies into immortality and incorruptibility is given to the believing DEAD bodies of believers - not to those who haven't died yet. ALL are appointed to die the one time, just as Christ did, as the rule in Hebrews 9:27-28 tells us. And yes, there is archaeological evidence that Christ bodily returned to the Mount of Olives back in AD 70, just as Zechariah 14 predicted.

The souls of the "non-elect" in the judgment were never granted a physical restoration of their bodies. Without the covering of Christ's vicarious righteousness, their bodies would "perish" by being left to disintegrate in the dust of the grave, and God would likewise destroy their souls in that judgment. Sorry, King Tut.

I am quite serious. Christ presently rules now "in the midst of His enemies". That means righteousness dwells in this planet in the persons of Spirit-indwelt believers living in the middle of Christ's enemies, of whom God is constantly converting his elect as children of God from among that enemy population. The kingdom of God is in a constant state of growth, as Christ promised, with "living stones" being regularly "built up" as that holy temple unto the Lord.

God, as the "consuming fire" that He is, turned the city of Jerusalem into the "Lake of Fire" for the city's "second death" in the AD 66-70 period - a duplicate of its first death under the Babylonian invasion back in 586 BC. Josephus also testified that anyone looking on from the outside of Jerusalem would have thought the entire city was engulfed in literal flames. It's just that when people read the word "earth" being destroyed by fire, they presume it is speaking of the entire planet being burned into non-existence, and that is not what the prophecy intended to portray. "Earth" is "tes ges" in the Greek, which predominantly refers to the land of Israel in particular, and not the world at large.

The condition of the "heavens and the earth" being burned up means a couple of things. The Jews considered their temple to be both the "heavens and the earth" where God in heaven met and communicated with His people the Jews on earth through that temple's operations. This temple system was entirely burned up physically speaking by the close of AD 70, though God considered it to be a dead, defunct system ever since Christ's crucifixion, resurrection, and ascension that day.

In the second sense of the "heavens and the earth" being burned up and "changed", the conditions in heaven itself changed with the resurrected saints finally being allowed access to heaven's temple in AD 70. This was a state in heaven's realm which had never existed before then. Also, the conditions in the earth were changed for all time by the destruction of the Satanic realm on the earth, so that no longer would humanity be plagued by the presence of these creatures. This was a totally new reality that had never existed before AD 70.

God once said that His "fire is in Zion, and His furnace in Jerusalem" in Isaiah 31:9. Jerusalem was the location for the "furnace of fire" or the "Lake of Fire" which had its besieged citizens weeping and gnashing their teeth at the torments that the AD 66-70 period brought for them to experience. One of those torments was having the entire Satanic realm imprisoned within the city for the duration of the "Great Tribulation" from AD 66-70, which would never be duplicated again on earth, once God destroyed that entire Satanic realm within the city by means of His consuming fire.

What is the archeological evidence of returning?

The descriptions of the earth's destruction in the flood were meant to lay the pattern for actual changes in it at the day of judgement. Preterism makes this mistake because it does not observe the delay.

 

[3 Resurrections]

The descriptions of the earth's destruction in the flood were meant to lay the pattern for actual changes in it at the day of judgement. Preterism makes this mistake because it does not observe the delay.

The symbolism of the world-wide flood example given in 2 Peter 3:6 was meant to portray the all-inclusive, worldwide effects of Christ's return. Which happened in AD 70. All the righteous dead from the entire planet who had died before Daniel's 1,335th day were resurrected and gathered together at the Mount of Olives location and taken to heaven with Christ. All the Satanic realm of devils and unclean spirits were destroyed at that time. All the souls of the wicked dead who had died up to that point in time faced judgment and perished. And all the "weak and beggarly elements" which composed the OT physical temple system were torn down to the last stone.

What is the archeological evidence of returning?

Zechariah 14:4-5 in the LXX (plus the New Jerusalem Bible and other translations) tells us where and when Christ returned to that Mount of Olives location, and what happened as a result. This was part of the entire prophecy for Israel starting back in Zechariah 12:1 with "the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem" (which took place between AD 66-70). Zechariah 14:4-5 tells us that at Christ's bodily return, the mountain would move in all directions: north, south, east, and west with an earthquake: a literal earthquake, just as took place in the days of King Uzziah, since the Mount of Olives is sitting directly on a seismic fault line.

Here is Zechariah 14:5 in the New Jerusalem Bible translation: "The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Azal, it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah..."
And here is Zechariah 14:5 in the LXX translation: "And the valley of my mountains shall be joined on to Jasod, and shall be blocked up as it was blocked up in the days of the earthquake, in the days of Ozias king of Juda; and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with him." I'm told the difference between these translations and others that read "Ye shall flee to Azal...' is due to a Hebrew verb used three times in this passage: a verb which can be pronounced two different ways, resulting in two entirely different meanings. And since Christ and the disciples used the LXX, I favor this translation about the Kidron Valley being "blocked up" as far as the Azal location over the other translations that say "Ye shall flee to Azal...".

The effects of that earthquake for the Mount of Olives at Christ's return would result in landslide rubble sliding downhill and blocking up the Kidron Valley as far as Azal, which was just past the southeastern corner of the walls of Jerusalem. This name of the "Azal" location is preserved in the Arabic on today's maps as the "Wadi Yasul". That deep layer of earthquake rubble lying today in the Kidron Valley has been analyzed, and is dated to the first century. Archaeologists have determined that the bed of the Kidron Valley is presently 40' higher than it was in Christ's day, and also 70' further away from the walls of Jerusalem on the eastern side than it was back then. That earthquake landslide rubble from the Mount of Olives filling up the Kidron Valley as far as Azal is Christ's "calling card" showing us that He came exactly when and where scripture said that He would bodily come.

 

[EarlyActs]

The symbolism of the world-wide flood example given in 2 Peter 3:6 was meant to portray the all-inclusive, worldwide effects of Christ's return. Which happened in AD 70. All the righteous dead from the entire planet who had died before Daniel's 1,335th day were resurrected and gathered together at the Mount of Olives location and taken to heaven with Christ. All the Satanic realm of devils and unclean spirits were destroyed at that time. All the souls of the wicked dead who had died up to that point in time faced judgment and perished. And all the "weak and beggarly elements" which composed the OT physical temple system were torn down to the last stone.


Zechariah 14:4-5 in the LXX (plus the New Jerusalem Bible and other translations) tells us where and when Christ returned to that Mount of Olives location, and what happened as a result. This was part of the entire prophecy for Israel starting back in Zechariah 12:1 with "the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem" (which took place between AD 66-70). Zechariah 14:4-5 tells us that at Christ's bodily return, the mountain would move in all directions: north, south, east, and west with an earthquake: a literal earthquake, just as took place in the days of King Uzziah, since the Mount of Olives is sitting directly on a seismic fault line.

Here is Zechariah 14:5 in the New Jerusalem Bible translation: "The valley between the hills will be filled in, yes, it will be blocked as far as Azal, it will be filled in as it was by the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah..."
And here is Zechariah 14:5 in the LXX translation: "And the valley of my mountains shall be joined on to Jasod, and shall be blocked up as it was blocked up in the days of the earthquake, in the days of Ozias king of Juda; and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with him." I'm told the difference between these translations and others that read "Ye shall flee to Azal...' is due to a Hebrew verb used three times in this passage: a verb which can be pronounced two different ways, resulting in two entirely different meanings. And since Christ and the disciples used the LXX, I favor this translation about the Kidron Valley being "blocked up" as far as the Azal location over the other translations that say "Ye shall flee to Azal...".

The effects of that earthquake for the Mount of Olives at Christ's return would result in landslide rubble sliding downhill and blocking up the Kidron Valley as far as Azal, which was just past the southeastern corner of the walls of Jerusalem. This name of the "Azal" location is preserved in the Arabic on today's maps as the "Wadi Yasul". That deep layer of earthquake rubble lying today in the Kidron Valley has been analyzed, and is dated to the first century. Archaeologists have determined that the bed of the Kidron Valley is presently 40' higher than it was in Christ's day, and also 70' further away from the walls of Jerusalem on the eastern side than it was back then. That earthquake landslide rubble from the Mount of Olives filling up the Kidron Valley as far as Azal is Christ's "calling card" showing us that He came exactly when and where scripture said that He would bodily come.

That's the kind of literalism that created D'ism, but it is interesting to a point.

This means there is no cosmic end of death and sin, human life on earth just goes on.

How could there be any comparison between a symbolic/representative event confined to Israel and a world cataclysm? That has no sense at all. Take the ordinary meaning of Rom 2: wrath for the Jews first and then the Greek. Where is the scorched planet at 70 AD that Rom 2 said would happen? Good luck.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings 3 Resurrections and Early Acts,

Zechariah 14:4-5 tells us that at Christ's bodily return, the mountain would move in all directions: north, south, east, and west with an earthquake: a literal earthquake, just as took place in the days of King Uzziah, since the Mount of Olives is sitting directly on a seismic fault line.

Last time I looked at the Mount of Olives it was still in position. Also when were the following details of Zechariah 14 fulfilled:
Zechariah 14:16–17 (KJV): 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

David saw the resurrection as the enthronement.

We have discussed this elsewhere, on other forums. Jesus is not yet seated on the Throne of David, as he is seated at the right hand of God in God the Father's Throne. He is yet to return and be seated in the Temple Throne of David as King Priest in Jerusalem for the 1000 years:
Luke 1:30–33 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 19:28 (KJV): And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Acts 2:29–36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Revelation 3:21–22 (KJV): 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[3 Resurrections]

This means there is no cosmic end of death and sin, human life on earth just goes on.

No, fallen mankind will not exist on this planet perpetually with no culmination point. We are awaiting the third bodily resurrection and coming of Christ in our future when God will purify this planet of the presence of all human evil forever. But it will not be soon. We've got quite a way to go yet.

How could there be any comparison between a symbolic/representative event confined to Israel and a world cataclysm? That has no sense at all. Take the ordinary meaning of Rom 2: wrath for the Jews first and then the Greek. Where is the scorched planet at 70 AD that Rom 2 said would happen?

It wasn't the entire planet that God promised to scorch. Fires swept through the majority of Israel's cities in the AD 66-70 time period. Vespasian and Titus both deliberately conquered any cities in Israel that could possibly come with an attack against their back while they were attempting to take Jerusalem, the most difficult target of all. Jerusalem was their final point of assault, which turned into the "Lake of Fire" for the city's "second death", comparable to its first death under the Babylonians in 586 BC.

The earth and the works therein (the temple, for example) were going to be burned up, but "the earth" ("tes ges") to a Jew reading those prophecies usually meant "the land" (the promised land). Remember, Luke 21:23 said there would be "great distress in the land, and wrath upon THIS PEOPLE" (those in Judea).

The "days of vengeance" would take place for Israel in payment for the blood curse they called down on their own heads at the crucifixion, but the rest of the world also went through calamitous times as well during that period. Paul told those on Mars Hill in Acts that God was "about the judge the world in righteousness" by the man Christ Jesus. John in Revelation 3:10 also told the Philadelphian church that an hour of temptation was "about to come upon all the world". So the Gentile nations did not get by without experiencing some of this judgment as well.

Last time I looked at the Mount of Olives it was still in position. Also when were the following details of Zechariah 14 fulfilled:
Zechariah 14:16–17 (KJV): 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

The crest of the Mount of Olives broke apart with the earthquake in AD 70, and landslide rubble rolled downhill in all directions. What you see left of the Mount of Olives today is not what was there before Christ bodily returned to that location back in AD 70. The profile of the Kidron Valley was also changed when all that earthquake rubble collected at the bottom of the Valley as far as the Azal location, as Zechariah 14:4-5 predicted for Christ's return.

We are currently still in that "year to year" period of time which Zechariah 14:16 mentioned subsequent to Jerusalem's AD 70 destruction. We worship in the reality of the New Jerusalem. The only reason Zechariah 14:16-19 emphasizes remembering the Feast of Tabernacles is because that will be the time of year when Christ will return again for the third resurrection event in our future. Any remaining tribal families in Israel after Jerusalem was torn down who did not come up to our New Jerusalem to worship Christ Jesus will not get the blessing of "rain". "Rain" in scripture is compared to righteousness, such as in Isaiah 45:8 and Hosea 10:12. "Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the Lord, till he come and rain righteousness upon you." Those who continue to reject Christ and refuse to worship Him don't get this blessing.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again 3 Resurrections,

We are awaiting the third bodily resurrection and coming of Christ in our future when God will purify this planet of the presence of all human evil forever.

I am awaiting the return of Jesus to raise some of the dead and reward the faithful and unite them with the living faithful: I cannot accept the large majority of your AD 70 scenario and Preteristm.
2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

But it will not be soon. We've got quite a way to go yet.

I suggest that the return of Jesus will be soon, and there are many fulfilled prophecies that indicate this. The present status of Israel and the problems concerning Jerusalem and the West Bank is some indication and preparation for the imending trouble of Ezekiel 38 and Zechariah 14. Also the early movements of Russia who I believe is the King of the North of Ezekiel 38 and Daniel 11:40-45.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[3 Resurrections]

2 Timothy 4:1,6–8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

This is not a clear translation of this verse. A more accurate one would be "...who is about to judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom." Paul was anticipating this bodily resurrection in the near future; a resurrection in which he himself would participate (since he was martyred around AD 67, just in time for the AD 70 resurrection event).

Also the movements of Russia who I believe is the King of the North of Ezekiel 38

Gog the chief prince was Simon bar Giora coming out of the "north parts" of Israel (Galilee) to Jerusalem in AD 69 with his army of some 40,000 - the largest of any of the Zealot leaders. That Zealot cause had originated in Galilee of the Gentiles in the north quarter of Israel. Balaam had prophesied long ago in Numbers 24:7-9 LXX saying of the nation of Israel that the "kingdom of Gog shall be exalted", and that God had led Gog out of Egypt. Those who blessed Gog were blessed and those who cursed Gog were cursed.

The battle led against Israel by Gog the chief prince was going to be a civil war battle between Israelites, when "every man's sword shall be against his brother" (Ezekiel 38:21). Simon bar Giora's army did just that in Jerusalem against Simon's own people in AD 69, even before Titus came and crushed Simon bar Giora's army in Jerusalem by the close of AD 70.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again 3 Resurrections,

Simon bar Giora's army in Jerusalem by the close of AD 70.

I cannot accept the large majority of your AD 70 scenario and Preteristm.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[3 Resurrections]

I cannot accept the large majority of your AD 70 scenario and Preteristm

It's true that Preterism is a difficult transition that most cannot make. I was raised in Christian schools that taught premil dispensationalism from my childhood upwards, and encountering Preterism 12 years ago was quite a shock to my eschatology stance at the beginning. I really appreciate your ability to maintain a respectful disagreement.

 

[donadams]

Really? Where do they get it!

THE KINGDOM CANE TWO THOUSAND YEARS AGO WITH CHRIST THE KING!

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5 (the church is the new Jerusalem the kingdom) gal 4:26 (one church) Jn 10:16

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Daniel 6:26
I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.

Daniel 7:14
And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Rev 21: 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

Gal 4:26 26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Holy mother church!

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; see Isa 22:21-22
(Keys of the kingdom / jurisdictional authority) Matt 16:17-19

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matt 21:43 taken from Israel given to Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20

Lk 1:32-33 how can Christ be king without a kingdom?

Matt 21:43 Lk 22:29 Dan 7:8 heb 12:28 how is the kingdom taken from Israel and given to the apostles if it does not exist?

Jude 1:25 how can there be dominion without a kingdom?

Matt 6:33 how can we seek a kingdom that does not exist?

Matt 16:18-19 how can Christ the king give Peter the keys of a kingdom that does not exist?

Matt 3:2 Mk 1:5 Lk 21:31 How can they preach: “the kingdom is at hand” if the kingdom does not exist?

Matt 12:28 kingdom has come


The new covenant church or body of Christ is also a kingdom!

Christ is royal king!

 

[Arial]

It's true that Preterism is a difficult transition that most cannot make. I was raised in Christian schools that taught premil dispensationalism from my childhood upwards, and encountering Preterism 12 years ago was quite a shock to my eschatology stance at the beginning. I really appreciate your ability to maintain a respectful disagreement.

If you are a preterist, and your statements align with that, why have you in other places said you were amil/idealist? Your views do not fit that at all.

 

[EarlyActs]

Greetings 3 Resurrections and Early Acts,

Last time I looked at the Mount of Olives it was still in position. Also when were the following details of Zechariah 14 fulfilled:
Zechariah 14:16–17 (KJV): 16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

We have discussed this elsewhere, on other forums. Jesus is not yet seated on the Throne of David, as he is seated at the right hand of God in God the Father's Throne. He is yet to return and be seated in the Temple Throne of David as King Priest in Jerusalem for the 1000 years:
Luke 1:30–33 (KJV): 30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: 33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 19:28 (KJV): And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Acts 2:29–36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Revelation 3:21–22 (KJV): 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Kind regards
Trevor

The grammar of Acts 2:30 and the other early Acts references is exactly that he is on the Davidic throne. Time to update! Even Acts 1, because the power cannot be exercised if he did not have.

The fundamental confusion is thinking that he meant a location, a time, an entity. He meant that he deserves to be honored, that's what Ps 2 and 110 are saying

 

[EarlyActs]

No, fallen mankind will not exist on this planet perpetually with no culmination point. We are awaiting the third bodily resurrection and coming of Christ in our future when God will purify this planet of the presence of all human evil forever. But it will not be soon. We've got quite a way to go yet.

It wasn't the entire planet that God promised to scorch. Fires swept through the majority of Israel's cities in the AD 66-70 time period. Vespasian and Titus both deliberately conquered any cities in Israel that could possibly come with an attack against their back while they were attempting to take Jerusalem, the most difficult target of all. Jerusalem was their final point of assault, which turned into the "Lake of Fire" for the city's "second death", comparable to its first death under the Babylonians in 586 BC.

The earth and the works therein (the temple, for example) were going to be burned up, but "the earth" ("tes ges") to a Jew reading those prophecies usually meant "the land" (the promised land). Remember, Luke 21:23 said there would be "great distress in the land, and wrath upon THIS PEOPLE" (those in Judea).

The "days of vengeance" would take place for Israel in payment for the blood curse they called down on their own heads at the crucifixion, but the rest of the world also went through calamitous times as well during that period. Paul told those on Mars Hill in Acts that God was "about the judge the world in righteousness" by the man Christ Jesus. John in Revelation 3:10 also told the Philadelphian church that an hour of temptation was "about to come upon all the world". So the Gentile nations did not get by without experiencing some of this judgment as well.

The crest of the Mount of Olives broke apart with the earthquake in AD 70, and landslide rubble rolled downhill in all directions. What you see left of the Mount of Olives today is not what was there before Christ bodily returned to that location back in AD 70. The profile of the Kidron Valley was also changed when all that earthquake rubble collected at the bottom of the Valley as far as the Azal location, as Zechariah 14:4-5 predicted for Christ's return.

We are currently still in that "year to year" period of time which Zechariah 14:16 mentioned subsequent to Jerusalem's AD 70 destruction. We worship in the reality of the New Jerusalem. The only reason Zechariah 14:16-19 emphasizes remembering the Feast of Tabernacles is because that will be the time of year when Christ will return again for the third resurrection event in our future. Any remaining tribal families in Israel after Jerusalem was torn down who did not come up to our New Jerusalem to worship Christ Jesus will not get the blessing of "rain". "Rain" in scripture is compared to righteousness, such as in Isaiah 45:8 and Hosea 10:12. "Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the Lord, till he come and rain righteousness upon you." Those who continue to reject Christ and refuse to worship Him don't get this blessing.

There is no sense to this 3 Res: So the Gentile nations did not get by without experiencing some of this judgment as well. , That's not what is meant at all.

nor is there 3 res. You're just at another 'theology game' with a minimum of support and a long limb on which stand at the end.