Prove the Practice of Worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

[ChristB4us]

Thus refuting your assertion.

Not when you are giving a vague reference to Revelation, you are not.

 

[ChristB4us]

It is in Acts 13:4.

If it read, "so being sent out by the Father" there would be no question that the Father answered the prayer.

But it reads, "so being sent out by the Holy Spirit." Then there shouldn't be a disdain for the Holy Spirit in that He answered the prayer.

In anything the disciples do is as led by the Holy Spirit but do not forget He does so as the spirit of Christ thus Christ sent them out.

Look at it in this way. How do we speak when the Lord uses us?

Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

So we are not really speaking our words but His words even though we are speaking, right?

And yet is it the Holy Spirit speaking His own words? No. When Jesus was on earth, the Holy Spirit served as the Spirit of the Father and so the Holy Spirit was speaking from the Father.

Now that Jesus has ascended and all power has been given unto Jesus per Matthew 28:18, the Holy Spirit serves as the Spirit of Christ as everything He hears, the words are from Jesus Christ, the Head of the Church aka the Word of God and everything the Spirit of Christ does is from Christ.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

So when you read the disciple speak in Acts, it is not really them speaking but from the Holy Ghost, and yet what the holy Ghost says is not from Himself but from Jesus Christ and so He sent those disciples out by the Holy Spirit. See how that verse aligns now?

 

[Fred]

Scripture designates the Lord Jesus Christ, the Word of God for that.

Thus, you deny the omniscience of the Holy Spirit.

The Father knows and the Son knows but the Holy Spirit doesn't know?

 

[ChristB4us]

There is no point in discussing it further if all you are going to do is ignore what I have said for the sake of simply repeating what I responded to in the first place

Well, I could say that about you in not reading my post correctly either in the first place, but ....

You are right since the Lord is not blessing our exchange with any iron sharpen iron ministry of His.

Have a good day anyway, brother.

 

[ChristB4us]

Yes.

Revelation 1:4-5
(4) John to the seven churches that are in Asia: Grace to you and peace, from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne,
(5) and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood. (NASB)

John's blessing (and a blessing is a prayer - 2 Chronicles 30:27) is in reference to all three Persons of the Trinity.

J.I. Packer: the prayer for grace and peace from the Father, the Spirit, and Jesus Christ in Revelation 1:4-5 (would John have put the Spirit between the Father and the Son if he had not regarded the Spirit as divine in the same sense as they are?).

Trinity by J.I. Packer

Sorry about that vague reference to Revelation even though in the post to me, you had not given it. I had missed this reply to the other poster @Eleanor .

The 7 spirits are not the Holy Spirit but the 7 angels to the 7 churches in Revelation. "Spirits" should not be capitalized since there is only One Holy Spirit. In the original 1611 KJV, it did not capitalized spirit in Revelation 1:4, at this link ---> Revelation 1:4 1611 KJV

And the reference in Revelation has nothing about prayer in it but delivering a message to the churches.

Now some will contend that spirits were never used as a reference to angels.

Psalm 104:4Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:

Hebrews 1:7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Acts 23:9And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.

Now look at how John was addressing each angel ( each spirit ) of each church; by writing; not praying.

Revelation 2:1Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write....

Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; ...

Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write;....

Revelation 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write;

Revelation 3:1And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write;...

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write;

Revelation 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write;

I do not know when they had capitalized spirit in Revelation for the KJV but originally the 1611 KJV did not.

 

[Fred]

The 7 spirits are not the Holy Spirit but the 7 angels to the 7 churches in Revelation. "Spirits" should not be capitalized since there is only One Holy Spirit.

Marvin Vincent: Paul nowhere joins the Spirit with the Father and the Son in his opening salutations. The nearest approach is 2 Corinthians 13:13. The reference is not to the seven principal angels (Revelation 8:2). These could not be properly spoken of as the source of grace and peace; nor be associated with the Father and the Son; nor take precedence of the Son, as is the case here. Besides, angels are never called spirits in this book. With the expression compare Revelation 4:5, the seven lamps of fire, “which are the seven Spirits of God:” Revelation 3:1, where Jesus is said to have “the seven Spirits of God.” Thus the seven Spirits belong to the Son as well as to the Father (see John 15:26). The prototype of John's expression is found in the vision of Zechariah, where the Messiah is prefigured as a stone with seven eyes, “the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth” (Zechariah 3:9; Zechariah 4:10). Compare also the same prophet's vision of the seven-branched candlestick (Zechariah 4:2).
Hence the Holy Spirit is called the Seven Spirits; the perfect, mystical number seven indicating unity through diversity (1 Corinthians 12:4). Not the sevenfold gifts of the Spirit are meant, but the divine Personality who imparts them; the one Spirit under the diverse manifestations. Richard of St. Victor (cited by Trench, “Seven Churches”) says: “And from the seven Spirits, that is, from the sevenfold Spirit, which indeed is simple in nature, sevenfold in grace.”
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/vnt/revelation-1.html

 

[ChristB4us]

Marvin Vincent: Paul nowhere joins the Spirit with the Father and the Son in his opening salutations. The nearest approach is 2 Corinthians 13:13. The reference is not to the seven principal angels (Revelation 8:2).

2 Corinthians 13:13 All the saints salute you.

Revelation 8:2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

These could not be properly spoken of as the source of grace and peace; nor be associated with the Father and the Son; nor take precedence of the Son, as is the case here. Besides, angels are never called spirits in this book. With the expression compare Revelation 4:5, the seven lamps of fire, “which are the seven Spirits of God:” Revelation 3:1, where Jesus is said to have “the seven Spirits of God.” Thus the seven Spirits belong to the Son as well as to the Father (see John 15:26). The prototype of John's expression is found in the vision of Zechariah, where the Messiah is prefigured as a stone with seven eyes, “the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth” (Zechariah 3:9; Zechariah 4:10). Compare also the same prophet's vision of the seven-branched candlestick (Zechariah 4:2).

Do consider that he is trying to assign the Holy Spirit as being how the Father or the Son is Omnipresence and Omniscient. Not so.

Hence the Holy Spirit is called the Seven Spirits; the perfect, mystical number seven indicating unity through diversity (1 Corinthians 12:4). Not the sevenfold gifts of the Spirit are meant, but the divine Personality who imparts them; the one Spirit under the diverse manifestations. Richard of St. Victor (cited by Trench, “Seven Churches”) says: “And from the seven Spirits, that is, from the sevenfold Spirit, which indeed is simple in nature, sevenfold in grace.”
https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/eng/vnt/revelation-1.html

No. The Holy Spirit is not called the Seven Spirit and the fact that it is capitalized is why Marvin Vincent did not know that it was originally seven spirits in the 1611 KJV. That is what more than likely, threw him off in trying to identify that as the Holy Spirit when those seven spirits are not.

Revelation 1:4 1611 KJV

Granted, none of spirit is capitalized in the 1611 KJV even when addressing the Holy Spirit, but it goes to show how down the road, error can even creep in with capitalization of spirit since some modern bibles do that for John 6:63 & 2 Corinthians 3:6 when they should not have since it was not about the Holy Spirit, but the KJV does not have capitalization of Spirit, including the seven Spirits.

Revelation 1: 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. 19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

I see reason below to see the seven spirits as the seven angels and not as the seven Holy Spirits.

Ephesians 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

 

[ChristB4us]

Thus, you deny the omniscience of the Holy Spirit.

The Father knows and the Son knows but the Holy Spirit doesn't know?

Who draws us unto the Son? The Father per John 6:44.

Who hides the truth from some and reveals His Son to even babes? The Father per Matthew 11:25-27.

Many give that credit to the Holy Spirit but there is no scripture for that.

If scripture designates the searching of our hearts by Whom we have to do in answering to, that is Jesus Christ. Hebrews 4:12-16

Who died on the cross? Not the Holy Spirit. Not the Father.

When scripture is clear about who searches our hearts BECAUSE He is the One we answer to ( Jesus Christ ), and scripture is clear as to Who searches the deep things of God ( Holy Spirit ) then why go outside of scripture of what scripture is testifying of about?

Like how God the Father wants us to come to Him by; only by the way of the Son; John 14:6 Any other way is the action of a thief John 10:1

AND how God the Father wants us to honor Him by and that is by only honoring the Son as this standard of judgment has been raised on all believers in verse 22 of John 5:22-23 whereby the latter part of verse 23 leaves no wiggle room for the Holy Spirit to be honored because the moment we stop honoring the Son, we are NOT honoring the Father. There is no other way to honor the Father; not by the Holy Spirit and not by addressing the blessed "Trinity".

 

[Fred]

Do consider that he is trying to assign the Holy Spirit as being how the Father or the Son is Omnipresence and Omniscient. Not so.

whats wrong with that?

Who draws us unto the Son?

Irrelevant. You deny the omniscience of the Holy Spirit.

 

[ChristB4us]

whats wrong with that?

There is no scripture testifying to that and since the 3 Witnesses are One God, each are omnipresence and omniscient but only the Father knows when the rapture will be, and not the Son nor the Holy Spirit. Wrap your head around that. Boggles my mind.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

 

[Fred]

When scripture is clear about who searches our hearts

The Holy Spirit fully knows the hearts in order to intercede for the saints (Romans 8:27).

 

[Fred]

There is no scripture testifying to that and since the 3 Witnesses are One God, each are omnipresence and omniscient but only the Father knows when the rapture will be, and not the Son nor the Holy Spirit. Wrap your head around that. Boggles my mind.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Can God speak in a way of not knowing something (Deuteronomy 13:3) even though He knows it (1 Kings 8:39)?

 

[ChristB4us]

whats wrong with that?

Irrelevant. You deny the omniscience of the Holy Spirit.

I do not deny the scripture you provided as testifying to the Spirit of God searching the deep things of God that mankind has no way of knowing.

That is not the same thing as searching our hearts. Scripture designates Christ Jesus for that role at that throne of grace for why the father knows before we even ask per Matthew 6:7-8 just as it is His role to know the mind of the Spirit to give His silent intercessions to the Father.

Like it or not, you have to deal with the awful reality of how believers pray to the holy Spirit in those apostate movements of the spirit and yet it is the spirit of the antichrist that responds. Why? Why would God the Father allow the devil to respond & not the Holy Spirit?

I' say they did not heed His words that Jesus is the only way to the Father and Jesus meant it.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

So repent brother because this is the consequence for not narrowing the way back to the son in worship, prayer, & fellowship.

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
:

 

[Fred]

There is no scripture for the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

Since God is Triune when He is prayed to proves all 3 Persons of the Trinity are prayed to (cf. Acts 1:24-26).

 

[Fred]

I do not deny the scripture you provided as testifying to the Spirit of God searching the deep things of God that mankind has no way of knowing.

That is not the same thing as searching our hearts.

Yes, it is.

If one fathoms everything there is no need to ask if all the name of the people in the world are known. "Everything" would encompass that.
The same would apply to knowing the hearts of all.

 

[Fred]

There is no scripture for the practice of worshipping the Holy Spirit with the Father & the Son

In the Old Testament when one turned to the Lord it involved rendering worship unto Him.
Psalm 22:27
All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.

Turning to the Lord involves worshiping the Holy Spirit.
2 Corinthians 3:16-17
(16) but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
(17) Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

 

[ChristB4us]

The Holy Spirit fully knows the hearts in order to intercede for the saints (Romans 8:27).

Depends on what Bible version you are using, brother Fred because the KJV keeps the pronoun as "he" but the NIV commits a grammatical error by switching out the "he" in the latter part of verse 27 when they should not have.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit(A) himself intercedes for us(B) through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts(C) knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes(D) for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. NIV

How can the "he" that is separate from us in searching our hearts and the same "he" that is separate from the Spirit to know the mind of the Spirit .. be "the Spirit" at the conclusion of that verse? It can't.

That "he" is Jesus Christ.

Not to mention how tongue users for private use apply that NIV reference as if validating gibberish nonsense of the holy Spirit praying to God.

Yet in all Bible versions, the Holy Spirit cannot speak from Himself but speaks what he hears which is to the people; not back to God!!!

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

John 16:13 But when he, the Spirit of truth,(A) comes, he will guide you into all the truth.(B) He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. NIV

So even here is an example for why I rely on the KJV because Romans 8:26-27 lines up with the truth in John 16:13 whereby He cannot even utter His own groanings, whereas the NIV holds the truth in John 16:13 BUT not in Romans 8:26-27 by "wordless groans".

It will take a divine intervention on the Lord Jesus Christ to help you see the truth in His words.

 

[ChristB4us]

Yes, it is.

If one fathoms everything there is no need to ask if all the name of the people in the world are known. "Everything" would encompass that.
The same would apply to knowing the hearts of all.

Then explain why the Holy Spirit does not know the time and day of the rapture and neither the Son, but the Father does? The Holy Spirit knows the deep things of God but not that?

So every scripture has to be aligned with the truth in His words because scripture cannot go against scripture.

 

[ChristB4us]

Since God is Triune when He is prayed to proves all 3 Persons of the Trinity are prayed to (cf. Acts 1:24-26).

That reference does not support your comment, brother Fred.

Acts 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

 

[Fred]

Depends on what Bible version you are using, brother Fred because the KJV keeps the pronoun as "he" but the NIV commits a grammatical error by switching out the "he" in the latter part of verse 27 when they should not have.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit(A) himself intercedes for us(B) through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts(C) knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes(D) for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. NIV

How can the "he" that is separate from us in searching our hearts and the same "he" that is separate from the Spirit to know the mind of the Spirit .. be "the Spirit" at the conclusion of that verse? It can't.

This is a mess.