Prevenient grace?

[Carbon]

Arminian Prevenient Grace isn't Transcendent, but actually encroaches upon everyone by trespassing against their Enmity toward God; and effectually thwarting their Total Depravity to a point of neutrality instead of Enmity...

Arminian Prevenient grace as something that comes before is a type of grace that don’t fulfill anything, scripturally. And its only purpose is to bring a man to a point where he can and may make a decision to be saved. Which is decisional regeneration, which is really no regeneration at all imo.

Scripture teaches we are saved by grace. (Eph 2)
It does not teach man is saved by bringing him to the point where he can make a decision for himself.

So we are saved by grace. And because of it, we possess faith which justifies us.

Personally I do not believe prevenient grace exists in the Bible.

 

[Carbon]

Arminian Prevenient Grace isn't Transcendent, but actually encroaches upon everyone by trespassing against their Enmity toward God; and effectually thwarting their Total Depravity to a point of neutrality instead of Enmity...

Curious brother, is this one of Andrew Fuller’s teachings? It sounds like it to me. Fuller tries to position himself in an imaginary middle position, something else that don’t exist in scripture imo.

 

[ReverendRV]

Curious brother, is this one of Andrew Fuller’s teachings? It sounds like it to me. Fuller tries to position himself in an imaginary middle position, something else that don’t exist in scripture imo.

It's a Classical Arminian Doctrine. Arminianism is Reformed, so it's Grace is Irresistible. It trespasses the Totally Depraved Will...

 

[Carbon]

It's a Classical Arminian Doctrine. Arminianism is Reformed, so it's Grace is Irresistible. It trespasses the Totally Depraved Will...

I think if you ask Arminians they will all tell you grace is resistible.

 

[Carbon]

To Arminius, prevenient grace was that grace that leads to regeneration, and unless it is resisted it results in regeneration.
Humanism

 

[Ritajanice]

and unless it is resisted it results in regeneration.
Humanism

I’m not understanding this @Carbon ....does this mean by human effort?

 

[Carbon]

I’m not understanding this @Carbon ....does this mean by human effort?

Arminians teach that prevenient grace leads someone so they can use their (human effort) free will. So yes, finally it is by human effort.
I disagree with that

 

[Ritajanice]

Arminians teach that prevenient grace leads someone so they can use their (human effort) free will. So yes, finally it is by human effort.
I disagree with that

I 100% disagree with that as well.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit friend, the unregenerate dont have it and cant pllease God Rom 8:8

Plenty of the "Unregerates" in the Old Testament pleased God nicely, starting with Abraham, who was "Unregenerate (According to NEW Testament standards), but still had FAITH (He Believed God's WORD to him).

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I didn't say it equates with "Being Saved". Er wait, let me check —I am getting old! ....nope, I can't find anywhere I said that. What I said was that Regeneration = being Born Again.

Plenty of other "Calvinists" here disagree.

 

[brightfame52]

Plenty of the "Unregerates" in the Old Testament pleased God nicely, starting with Abraham, who was "Unregenerate (According to NEW Testament standards), but still had FAITH (He Believed God's WORD to him).

No they didnt. Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

No they didnt. Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

SO then the Bible lies. I don't agree.

 

[brightfame52]

SO then the Bible lies. I don't agree.

No, what you think Rom 8:8 is if not the scripture ?

 

[Eleanor]

Plenty of the "Unregerates" in the Old Testament pleased God nicely, starting with Abraham, who was "Unregenerate (According to NEW Testament standards), but still had FAITH (He Believed God's WORD to him).

Abraham believed in the promise (Ge 15:5, seed; Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) and was regenerated.

 

[Ritajanice]

Plenty of the "Unregerates" in the Old Testament pleased God nicely, starting with Abraham, who was "Unregenerate (According to NEW Testament standards), but still had FAITH (He Believed God's WORD to him).

How can the unregenerate hear God...God must have opened Abraham’s heart to hear his voice?

The unregenerate surely can’t hear God?

 

[brightfame52]

How can the unregenerate hear God...God must have opened Abraham’s heart to hear his voice?

The unregenerate surely can’t hear God?

Exactly Jesus says that one needs to be born of God to hear Gods word, otherwise they dont have the ability to hear or understand it spiritually Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

How can the unregenerate hear God...God must have opened Abraham’s heart to hear his voice?

The unregenerate surely can’t hear God?

"Unregenerates" can "hear God" just fine, that's how we all got saved, after all. We "Heard God" in "Conviction of SIN and of judgement". (John 16:8)

The claim that we "Can't hear GOD without regeneration" is just the Calvinist "Work around" for their inaccurate "Total depravity theology".

Are we BLIND to the reality of the "Kingdom of God" as unregenerates?? Absolutely!!! Jesus said so in John 3:3. But that "Unregenerates cant hear GOD at all" is just theological foolishness.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Abraham believed in the promise (Ge 15:5, seed; Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) and was regenerated.

Impossible. Jesus had not been Sacrificed yet, and "Being Born Again", or being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, was FAR in the future. Abraham, however, DID HAVE FAITH in God's WORD to him, as demonstrated by his subsequent actions.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Abraham believed in the promise (Ge 15:5, seed; Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) and was regenerated.

That's an assumption not supported by the cite.

 

[Eleanor]

Impossible.

Tell it to God.

Abraham believed in the promise, which was Jesus Christ.

Jesus had not been Sacrificed yet, and "Being Born Again", or being indwelled by the Holy Spirit, was FAR in the future. Abraham,however, DID HAVE FAITH in God's WORD to him, as demonstrated by his subsequent actions.

And God's word to him was a promise of Christ, in which promise Abraham believed.