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Phil 1:21

Carbon

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Strange question time?

For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. Phil 1:21.

Is physical death so bad, or how can physical death be entirely bad when it is the only way we can gain true life?

So, was it preordained for Adam to sin, and die? And bring death to all his posterity?


Thoughts?
 
Preordained or foreknowledge? Both?

I know God is not the author of sin, but He uses sin for His glory.

This has always been a tough one for me and I have read many things on this.

If the Lord had a predetermined plan for Christ (Acts 2:23), why not for Adam, sin and death?

Can I claim Deuteronomy 29:29 on this one?

It will be interesting to see the replies.
 
Strange question time?

For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. Phil 1:21.

Is physical death so bad, or how can physical death be entirely bad when it is the only way we can gain true life?

So, was it preordained for Adam to sin, and die? And bring death to all his posterity?


Thoughts?
Very definitely. And there are several ways to show it.

Cause-and-effect logically descending from 1st causer.

Scripture's witness.

Reasoning by way of definitions of the Garden of Eden vs Heaven, and "innocence" vs "Body of Christ", "Bride of Christ" and "Dwelling Place of God".

Being IN HIM as over against being mere subjects of the ruler, or mere creatures (no matter how sentient).
 
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Very definitely.
And to think, after creation, knowing His design and the working of all things, He declared His creation good, In Genesis 1, "it was good" appears 6 times. I used to think, death couldn't be anything about the "it was good." Now, I'm not so sure.
 
If my death is coming home, how can it be bad for the believer?

If the Lord awaits my death with joy, how can it be bad for the believer?

(Ps. 116:15) "Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints."

Almost has the same ring in it as (Luke 15:32)

I think it will be a good day.

Lees
 
Preordained or foreknowledge? Both?

I know God is not the author of sin, but He uses sin for His glory.

This has always been a tough one for me and I have read many things on this.

If the Lord had a predetermined plan for Christ (Acts 2:23), why not for Adam, sin and death?

Can I claim Deuteronomy 29:29 on this one?

It will be interesting to see the replies.
I believe you can. Calvin once said something to the effect that we are not to try and peer into the hidden things of God.

It is a useless enterprise. The only thing we will find there is a product of our finite minds, which does not begin to touch the mind of God. We know what he tells us and it is enough. What he doesn't tell us our minds cannot contain.

We are given the end game. Satan is destroyed. Sin is destroyed, Evil is destroyed. Death is destroyed. God dwells with us.

And since God is doing this through Christ, and by means of humanity falling into sin and bringing it into the world, and if he is God, he intended for that very thing-----it is perfect. There is no other way to rid our world of evil and suffering.

So death is either heaven or hell. And for the believer, the sufferings of this age are as nothing compared to the glory that awaits us. And when we die, if that happens before the Lord returns, we go to be with him. We have traveled the long hard road and arrived safely Home. We have been rescued out of this world.
 
If my death is coming home, how can it be bad for the believer?

If the Lord awaits my death with joy, how can it be bad for the believer?

(Ps. 116:15) "Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints."

Almost has the same ring in it as (Luke 15:32)

I think it will be a good day.

Lees
Yep. This life is not for this life.
 
If my death is coming home, how can it be bad for the believer?

If the Lord awaits my death with joy, how can it be bad for the believer?

(Ps. 116:15) "Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints."

Almost has the same ring in it as (Luke 15:32)

I think it will be a good day.

Lees
Amen!
 
I believe you can. Calvin once said something to the effect that we are not to try and peer into the hidden things of God.

It is a useless enterprise. The only thing we will find there is a product of our finite minds, which does not begin to touch the mind of God. We know what he tells us and it is enough. What he doesn't tell us our minds cannot contain.

We are given the end game. Satan is destroyed. Sin is destroyed, Evil is destroyed. Death is destroyed. God dwells with us.

And since God is doing this through Christ, and by means of humanity falling into sin and bringing it into the world, and if he is God, he intended for that very thing-----it is perfect. There is no other way to rid our world of evil and suffering.

So death is either heaven or hell. And for the believer, the sufferings of this age are as nothing compared to the glory that awaits us. And when we die, if that happens before the Lord returns, we go to be with him. We have traveled the long hard road and arrived safely Home. We have been rescued out of this world.
Glory to God! Amen!
 
Strange question time?
For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. Phil 1:21.
Is physical death so bad, or how can physical death be entirely bad when it is the only way we can gain true life?
So, was it preordained for Adam to sin, and die? And bring death to all his posterity?
Thoughts?
The whole sh-bang is the decree of God as the best means to accomplish the best end (manifestation of the glory of God's attributes).
 
Preordained or foreknowledge? Both?
Keeping in mind that foreknowledge (prognosis) is of his own works (Ac 15:17-18), because all is his work.
I know God is not the author of sin, but He uses sin for His glory.
This has always been a tough one for me and I have read many things on this.
If the Lord had a predetermined plan for Christ (Acts 2:23), why not for Adam, sin and death?
Can I claim Deuteronomy 29:29 on this one?
Absolutely!!!
It will be interesting to see the replies.
 
I believe you can. Calvin once said something to the effect that we are not to try and peer into the hidden things of God.
It is a useless enterprise. The only thing we will find there is a product of our finite minds, which does not begin to touch the mind of God. We know what he tells us and it is enough. What he doesn't tell us our minds cannot contain.
We are given the end game. Satan is destroyed. Sin is destroyed, Evil is destroyed. Death is destroyed. God dwells with us.
And since God is doing this through Christ, and by means of humanity falling into sin and bringing it into the world, and if he is God, he intended for that very thing-----it is perfect. There is no other way to rid our world of evil and suffering.
Evil and suffering are part of the plan to accomplish his purpose (Ro 9:22-23).
So death is either heaven or hell. And for the believer, the sufferings of this age are as nothing compared to the glory that awaits us. And when we die, if that happens before the Lord returns, we go to be with him. We have traveled the long hard road and arrived safely Home. We have been rescued out of this world.
 
The whole sh-bang is the decree of God as the best means to accomplish the best end (manifestation of the glory of God's attributes).
Agreed.

That comment reminds me of someone (kinda famous, though I can't remember her name) who was touted at being good at making quantum theory understandable to the common person. She was asking how does a ray of light know the quickest route to reach any particular object under the surface of water. From the source, the light goes in a straight line to the surface of the water, and from there at a sudden angle to the object. When I said, "It doesn't know, it doesn't care, it is not appropriate to call it even the quickest way --it is the ONLY way for the ray of light to go from the source to the object.", it was like I had interrupted a church service with a loud heretical statement.

It is not just the best means and best way. It is the only means and the only way, because God ordained it; God establishes the fact of it --there is no other way, there can be no other way. Everything else is human, "Yeah, but what if?" supposition.

And if any one detail had been different, something about the whole of it would be different. Everything, every detail and every larger fact, about that end result depends upon the beginning. I have reason to think that even his 'interventions' were planned from (part of?) that beginning. As that science writer said, "The seeds that everything we see now grew from, were sown in the Big Bang." (The point is logical, even if there was no actual big bang, because everything results from what came before it.)

And God is specific in every detail the specifications for what he is building.
 
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