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PAUL: JEWISH LAW AND THE EARLY CHURCH

Up until Paul's teaching on how to accept Gentile believers into the Jewish Church the mind of these Jewish Christians at their churches throughout Asia Minor practiced the "middle wall partition" at the beginning, a practice from the Temple and synagogues that separated Jews and Gentiles at their religious functions. Until the destruction of their Temple in A.D. 70 the "ism" of Judaism remained.

Ephesians is blank at 1:1 where the destination is to be filled in. He wrote it for all his churches in the area. It's prob about 60, was the plan all along.

Acts 10 is much earlier. Acts 15 is already addressing your questions in a past tense, and it took place in 49. You really don't know the basic features of what you are talking about.
 
The New Testament Church was founded by Jewish Christians and was a continuation of the "Great Congregation" of covenant Jews/Hebrews from the time of their wanderings in the desert when the Tabernacle was built. The mind-set of the early Jewish Christians that populated their synagogues and later their home fellowships was Yeshua was from the tribe of Judah, a descendant of David, and the fulfillment of their covenants and prophecies. Of course, the letters written that we have in the canon was written to Jewish Christians. No Gentile at this time knew anything substantial enough that was included in these letters to warrant that the epistles were written to them. The level of knowledge to understand the things written in the letters require an intimate knowledge and understanding of the Jewish covenants and its peripherals (prophecies, practices, history, culture, etc.), something these Gentiles and their dumb idols could not know.
After the Temple was destroyed the population of Gentile believers grew as the population of Jewish believers dwindled and Gentile believers were not taught Jewish covenants and histories and prophecies. They brought in a mind-set of Gentile understanding coming out of idol worshiping and Gentile history and culture. One of the first heretics taught that the God of the Old Testament was a harsh, judgmental God, and the God of the "New Testament" was love and compassion and promoted a separation of Gentilism from Judaism. I think his name was Marcion.
As more Gentiles became saved, they soon unmoored their "faith and reason" from its Judaic roots.


This is all very late, and somehow, you missed referencing an actual, details situation in Col (and Gal has even more detail and is 46 AD).

the gospel[j] 6 that has come to you. Just as in the entire world this gospel[k] is bearing fruit and growing, so it has also been bearing fruit and growing[l] among you

and

but has now been revealed to his saints. 27 God wanted to make known to them the glorious[au] riches of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.



If you know anything about Col 1, you know it is prob the most spectacular Christology anywhere. All the fulness of God was in Messiah, and that's Gentiles reading.

If you know Gal 4, you know that a comparison was drawn between the Judaizer message and the paganism of the Gentiles. Paul had to re-extract the Galatians as he had from their paganism. The group thus clearly knew both! In 46 AD!

I hope you will read the text 10x more than you post, going forward. The race-nation concern is a huge blinder.
 
Ephesians is blank at 1:1 where the destination is to be filled in. He wrote it for all his churches in the area. It's prob about 60, was the plan all along.

Acts 10 is much earlier. Acts 15 is already addressing your questions in a past tense, and it took place in 49. You really don't know the basic features of what you are talking about.
ALL the gospels and epistles were written by Jewish Christians to and for other Jewish Christians at the various churches in Asia Minor. No gospel or epistle is addressed to any Gentiles.
The New Covenant (Jer. 31) Church was founded by Jewish Christians in Jerusalem. Acts 2 describes 3000 Jews from all over Israel and Jewish visitors from Gentile lands present at the Feast and witnessed the "tongues" in the upper room with the disciples that were saved at Peter's preaching to Jews about their covenant, their promises of God, their prophecies (Joel is one), and Peter was speaking to Jews, specifically, the twelve tribes of Israel present for their Feast. There were no Gentiles. They don't celebrate Jewish feasts and holy days. They were Gentiles carried away by dumb idols.
 
This is all very late, and somehow, you missed referencing an actual, details situation in Col (and Gal has even more detail and is 46 AD).

the gospel[j] 6 that has come to you. Just as in the entire world this gospel[k] is bearing fruit and growing, so it has also been bearing fruit and growing[l] among you

and

but has now been revealed to his saints. 27 God wanted to make known to them the glorious[au] riches of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.


If you know anything about Col 1, you know it is prob the most spectacular Christology anywhere. All the fulness of God was in Messiah, and that's Gentiles reading.

If you know Gal 4, you know that a comparison was drawn between the Judaizer message and the paganism of the Gentiles. Paul had to re-extract the Galatians as he had from their paganism. The group thus clearly knew both! In 46 AD!

I hope you will read the text 10x more than you post, going forward. The race-nation concern is a huge blinder.
The church at Colossae was populated by Jewish Christians. As long as the Temple stood so did the "ism" of Judaism, except it had a different character about it: Israel's Promised Messiah had come and the epistles was to address Jewish issues, such as what effect Messiah's arrival had on Judaism. It was after the Temple was destroyed that the Time of the Gentiles began in full swing and the "ism" of Judaism losing its influence as God brought in more and more Gentiles.
If you were to visit the churches Paul wrote to one year after Pentecost, you would either be in a synagogue with Jewish Christians (before the split) or in Jewish Christian home (after the split.)
There were no Gentile churches. It was ALL Jewish.

Paul writes to Jewish Christians in 'Galatia" (it was a circular letter to Jewish Christians in the region) and the word "saints" refers to Jews. Gentiles later stole it to what it refers to now. Gentiles knew nothing of the "fatherhood" of God. The "hope laid up for them" was the covenants and the promises of God to Israel. The "word of truth" is the OT. "Partakers of the inheritance" is the same when a Jewish man came up to Jesus in the gospel and asked, "how may I inherit eternal life."
All these "mysteries" Paul speaks of are all the known 'pre-figures' of Messiah, Israel's Redeemer and the covenants in a new holy Spirit light, and the prophecies in a new Holy Spirit light, all the promises in a new Holy Spirit light that ONLY had to do with their Messiah, their religion, their covenants, everything about salvation is of the Jews. Respect it and let's not bastardize the Scripture and 'play' Replacement Theology with the Israeli covenants and promises.
 
Both Acts and the New Testament as a whole are far removed from Paul in time and circumstance, yet they gave birth to the traditional view of Paul. The unmistakable message of Acts—repeatedly placed in the mouth of Paul by scholars—is that gentiles have replaced the Jews as the people of God. And Acts is strategically placed before the letters of Paul, so that it is through Acts that we first meet Paul. In other words, a clear image of Paul is presented to us that preconditions our response to his letters.

Like Acts, the overall message of the New Testament regarding Judaism is that Judaism is rejected, invalidated and replaced by Christianity. And if this is the message of the New Testament as a whole, how can we doubt that its central figure (13 of its 27 writings claim to be written by Paul, and Acts is about him) preached this same message? In short, the other parts of the New Testament, particularly Acts, have always served as the lens through which Paul has been read and interpreted. This eschatological intensity is especially relevant to two central themes in Paul’s thinking. The first is the expectation in numerous Jewish texts of the time when the inclusion of the gentiles as children of God will take place at the end of history. The second is the elaborate scenario that maintains that the temporary blindness of the Jews is a divinely ordained precondition for the inclusion of the gentiles (Romans 11). According to the final stage of this scenario, once the gentiles are brought into a new relationship with God, Israel will come to its senses, and “All Israel will be saved” (Romans 11:26). Note that he does not say, “All Israel will come to believe in Jesus or Christianity,” just “All Israel will be saved.”

One final factor is important in understanding Paul’s letters from Paul’s viewpoint: Paul’s message contained instruction to and about gentiles—that they were being offered salvation outside the covenant with Israel—was actively and vociferously resisted by others within the Jesus movement. These anti-Pauline groups, whom Paul himself connects with Peter and James (the brother of Jesus) insisted that gentile followers of Jesus could be saved or redeemed only by becoming members of the people of Israel. For adult males, that meant circumcision. We also know that these anti-Pauline leaders from within the Jesus movement followed Paul from town to town, trying to impose their gospel of circumcision on his gentile believers. The issue between Paul and his opponents was not whether gentiles could become followers of Jesus. They could. The issue was whether they first had to become Jews or whether, as Paul insisted, a new way for them had been opened up by the faith and death of Jesus. It is these anti-Pauline apostles within the Jesus movement who are the targets of Paul’s anger. It is against them that his arguments are directed. His concern with circumcision has nothing to do with Jews outside the Jesus movement (as he tells us explicitly in Romans 2:25–3:4).

As the apostle, he is concerned exclusively with the issue of the circumcision of gentiles within the Jesus movement, but Paul never speaks of gentiles as replacing Israel. (Note that Paul never refers to gentile members of the Jesus movement as Christians; for him, humanity is always divided between Jews and gentiles.) And Paul never speaks of God as having rejected Israel in favor of a new chosen people. I cannot deny that interpreters throughout the ages have read him in this way. I believe that Paul vehemently repudiates this misreading of his thought: “I ask, then, has God rejected his people [Israel]? By no means!” (Romans 11:1).

Paul did not see the Mosaic Law as a bad thing or as somehow not being a revelation from God. The issue then is not whether Paul might have been anti-Law, because he wasn’t. Rather, the issue is how Paul viewed the Law’s role in the larger picture of salvation history, and the effect that Israel's Messiah had upon the Law. And what Paul says as clearly as he can in Galatians 3–4, in 2 Corinthians 3 and even in Romans is that the Law, though a very good thing, has been eclipsed by the revelation of God in Jesus Christ and must now be seen as obsolescent:

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Gal. 3:23–25.

For Paul, the new covenant in Christ is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant. Paul views the Mosaic covenant as an interim solution for God’s people, and he believes that the covenant’s day has passed. In Galatians 4, Paul likens the Mosaic covenant to a minor’s guardian who plays an important role—but only until the youth comes of age. But as Galatians 4:4 says, when the fullness of time had come, God sent “forth his Son…born under the Law to redeem those who were under the Law.” Paul can only be referring to persons like himself, namely Jews. In other words, whether we agree with him or not, Paul believes Jesus is indeed the savior of Jews as well as gentiles. He believes that Jews need to be redeemed from the Law, not because the Law is a bad thing, but because it cannot save fallen human beings; it cannot make them new creatures. As Paul puts it: “For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart from works prescribed by the Law…Since God is one…he will justify the circumcised on the ground of faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith” (Romans 3:28–30).

Paul does not believe that Jews will be justified one way and gentiles another: He believes they will both be justified by a saving faith in the one Messiah for both Jews and gentiles, Jesus of Nazareth. We must make no mistake: In Romans 9:5, when Paul says the Messiah comes from Israel, he means the Messiah anticipated by Jews as their redeemer, whom he believes has now come in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. Paul never refers to anyone other than Jesus as “the Christ.” As Paul says in Romans 1:16– 17, the good news (that is, the gospel about Jesus) is the power of salvation “for everyone who has faith to the Jew first and also to the Gentiles.” Such statements cannot be dismissed simply as rhetorical flourishes intended solely for gentiles to make them feel they have equal standing with Jews before God.
Source(s) for this opening post?

This reads a lot like N. T. Wright
 
ALL the gospels and epistles were written by Jewish Christians to and for other Jewish Christians at the various churches in Asia Minor. No gospel or epistle is addressed to any Gentiles.
The New Covenant (Jer. 31) Church was founded by Jewish Christians in Jerusalem. Acts 2 describes 3000 Jews from all over Israel and Jewish visitors from Gentile lands present at the Feast and witnessed the "tongues" in the upper room with the disciples that were saved at Peter's preaching to Jews about their covenant, their promises of God, their prophecies (Joel is one), and Peter was speaking to Jews, specifically, the twelve tribes of Israel present for their Feast. There were no Gentiles. They don't celebrate Jewish feasts and holy days. They were Gentiles carried away by dumb idols.

Says who? You can't just declare things. There has to be proof. The earliest Gentile Christians in a synagogue were over in Babylon--persuaded by the magi when they returned in 2-3 AD.
 
The church at Colossae was populated by Jewish Christians. As long as the Temple stood so did the "ism" of Judaism, except it had a different character about it: Israel's Promised Messiah had come and the epistles was to address Jewish issues, such as what effect Messiah's arrival had on Judaism. It was after the Temple was destroyed that the Time of the Gentiles began in full swing and the "ism" of Judaism losing its influence as God brought in more and more Gentiles.
If you were to visit the churches Paul wrote to one year after Pentecost, you would either be in a synagogue with Jewish Christians (before the split) or in Jewish Christian home (after the split.)
There were no Gentile churches. It was ALL Jewish.

Paul writes to Jewish Christians in 'Galatia" (it was a circular letter to Jewish Christians in the region) and the word "saints" refers to Jews. Gentiles later stole it to what it refers to now. Gentiles knew nothing of the "fatherhood" of God. The "hope laid up for them" was the covenants and the promises of God to Israel. The "word of truth" is the OT. "Partakers of the inheritance" is the same when a Jewish man came up to Jesus in the gospel and asked, "how may I inherit eternal life."
All these "mysteries" Paul speaks of are all the known 'pre-figures' of Messiah, Israel's Redeemer and the covenants in a new holy Spirit light, and the prophecies in a new Holy Spirit light, all the promises in a new Holy Spirit light that ONLY had to do with their Messiah, their religion, their covenants, everything about salvation is of the Jews. Respect it and let's not bastardize the Scripture and 'play' Replacement Theology with the Israeli covenants and promises.


Replacement theology is discussed in Gal 3 and you missed both trains.

I just showed you that the people written to in Col were both. STOP the either or. Your race-nation-ism makes you unable to see what is going on.
 
The church at Colossae was populated by Jewish Christians. As long as the Temple stood so did the "ism" of Judaism, except it had a different character about it: Israel's Promised Messiah had come and the epistles was to address Jewish issues, such as what effect Messiah's arrival had on Judaism. It was after the Temple was destroyed that the Time of the Gentiles began in full swing and the "ism" of Judaism losing its influence as God brought in more and more Gentiles.
If you were to visit the churches Paul wrote to one year after Pentecost, you would either be in a synagogue with Jewish Christians (before the split) or in Jewish Christian home (after the split.)
There were no Gentile churches. It was ALL Jewish.

Paul writes to Jewish Christians in 'Galatia" (it was a circular letter to Jewish Christians in the region) and the word "saints" refers to Jews. Gentiles later stole it to what it refers to now. Gentiles knew nothing of the "fatherhood" of God. The "hope laid up for them" was the covenants and the promises of God to Israel. The "word of truth" is the OT. "Partakers of the inheritance" is the same when a Jewish man came up to Jesus in the gospel and asked, "how may I inherit eternal life."
All these "mysteries" Paul speaks of are all the known 'pre-figures' of Messiah, Israel's Redeemer and the covenants in a new holy Spirit light, and the prophecies in a new Holy Spirit light, all the promises in a new Holy Spirit light that ONLY had to do with their Messiah, their religion, their covenants, everything about salvation is of the Jews. Respect it and let's not bastardize the Scripture and 'play' Replacement Theology with the Israeli covenants and promises.


BTW, your point "If you were to visit" is particularly not true in Rome because of the eviction and return. It was a "Gentile" church during eviction. Notice how he says the same things there as to Eph, Gal, Col. Continuity instead of your fragmentation.
 
It was no mystery that Gentiles would become believers, Acts 15. The mystery (to Jews) was the method--through the Gospel. All Judaizers expected inclusion to take place through the Law.
 
Says who? You can't just declare things. There has to be proof. The earliest Gentile Christians in a synagogue were over in Babylon--persuaded by the magi when they returned in 2-3 AD.
Many Jews stayed behind in Persia, Babylon, Mesopotamia. So did Daniel. There is only one source for the prophecies of Israel's Messiah and Redeemer and King: The Jewish Scripture.
Gentiles were not the Magi, and the Magi were not Gentile. Gentiles would not be searching for a Jewish King to be born.
I DECLARE IT!
Lol.
 
Many Jews stayed behind in Persia, Babylon, Mesopotamia. So did Daniel. There is only one source for the prophecies of Israel's Messiah and Redeemer and King: The Jewish Scripture.
Gentiles were not the Magi, and the Magi were not Gentile. Gentiles would not be searching for a Jewish King to be born.
I DECLARE IT!
Lol.

Source on magi were not Gentile?
 
BTW, your point "If you were to visit" is particularly not true in Rome because of the eviction and return. It was a "Gentile" church during eviction. Notice how he says the same things there as to Eph, Gal, Col. Continuity instead of your fragmentation.
Persecution was what God used to drive His people - Jewish Christians - to other places as the traditional Judaizers persecuted Jewish Christians. Hebrews 6 says these Jewish Christians through persecution for their belief in Jesus Messiah wanted to return to Judaism in effort to stop their persecution, but the writer of Hebrews says "IMPOSSIBLE!"
I do declare!
Tell me, at a Jewish feast where Jews from all over Gentile lands came to celebrate as according to their Law, what do you do with 3000 born again Jews? They were NOT all from Israel. And how many could fit in a Jewish Street where the upper room was? 3000. Acts 2 numbers 17 languages the disciples spoke. These are languages from Gentile locations so these Jews that were at the feast from these locations would have been saved by the out-pouring Holy Spirit (Joel) and heard Peter address the "men of Israel" and the "men of Judea" speech that spoke about the Promises God gave to THEIR fathers.
17 languages were represented so that's a lot of unrelated Gentile lands these Jews came from to their feast. And when the feast was over, they went back to these Gentile lands they lived in, on the way talked about what they witnessed to other Jews on the way back home they may have run into, went into their synagogues and shared their experience under the anointing, more Jews were saved, every Sabbath went to their synagogues and continued to share their Holy Spirit experiences (though not completely understanding and connecting to the relevant OT Scriptures but talking about a man they called Messiah that died on a tree, which to traditional Jews they saw was a cursed thing so HOW could this man be their King???
Soon, they stumbled over their stumbling stone, kicked out the Jewish Christians from their synagogue, and Jewish Christians began to gather in their homes. It was a Jewish phenomenon for several decades leading up to the destruction of their Temple in Jerusalem, a sign the Time of the Gentiles was to begin. No Temple, no sacrifice. Judaism was on the way out. But historically, salvation is of the Jews in a totally whole new way.
No, no. The New Testament writings were written to Jewish Christians by Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jude, James, Peter, and the rest of these Jewish Christians that met their Lord.
 
Source on magi were not Gentile?
Me. I declare it!
C'mon, Gentiles were all wrapped up in their puny gods of stone, brick, marble, the sky, the dirt god, the leaf god, the fingernail god, all of them gods and they would not be interested in the ONE God of the Jews.
 
The vision of the OT was that Israel would be missionaries to the world at the end of the age. They would be messengers of the covenant.
Me. I declare it!
C'mon, Gentiles were all wrapped up in their puny gods of stone, brick, marble, the sky, the dirt god, the leaf god, the fingernail god, all of them gods and they would not be interested in the ONE God of the Jews.

You are a historical fraud.
 
Persecution was what God used to drive His people - Jewish Christians - to other places as the traditional Judaizers persecuted Jewish Christians. Hebrews 6 says these Jewish Christians through persecution for their belief in Jesus Messiah wanted to return to Judaism in effort to stop their persecution, but the writer of Hebrews says "IMPOSSIBLE!"
I do declare!
Tell me, at a Jewish feast where Jews from all over Gentile lands came to celebrate as according to their Law, what do you do with 3000 born again Jews? They were NOT all from Israel. And how many could fit in a Jewish Street where the upper room was? 3000. Acts 2 numbers 17 languages the disciples spoke. These are languages from Gentile locations so these Jews that were at the feast from these locations would have been saved by the out-pouring Holy Spirit (Joel) and heard Peter address the "men of Israel" and the "men of Judea" speech that spoke about the Promises God gave to THEIR fathers.
17 languages were represented so that's a lot of unrelated Gentile lands these Jews came from to their feast. And when the feast was over, they went back to these Gentile lands they lived in, on the way talked about what they witnessed to other Jews on the way back home they may have run into, went into their synagogues and shared their experience under the anointing, more Jews were saved, every Sabbath went to their synagogues and continued to share their Holy Spirit experiences (though not completely understanding and connecting to the relevant OT Scriptures but talking about a man they called Messiah that died on a tree, which to traditional Jews they saw was a cursed thing so HOW could this man be their King???
Soon, they stumbled over their stumbling stone, kicked out the Jewish Christians from their synagogue, and Jewish Christians began to gather in their homes. It was a Jewish phenomenon for several decades leading up to the destruction of their Temple in Jerusalem, a sign the Time of the Gentiles was to begin. No Temple, no sacrifice. Judaism was on the way out. But historically, salvation is of the Jews in a totally whole new way.
No, no. The New Testament writings were written to Jewish Christians by Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Jude, James, Peter, and the rest of these Jewish Christians that met their Lord.

Lots of 'sebaomai' were at synagogue. I don't suppose you know what that means.
 
The vision of the OT was that Israel would be missionaries to the world at the end of the age. They would be messengers of the covenant.


You are a historical fraud.
Missionaries to the world?
Do you have a Scripture to that effect?
I can't be a fraud. History is my favorite subject in school. And Christ is in me, so we are united and what you do or say to the least of these my brethren you have done it unto me.
Jesus can't be a fraud.
 
Lots of 'sebaomai' were at synagogue. I don't suppose you know what that means.
Is that an Italian dish?
It means worship.
Yes, lots of worship at the synagogue.
They used to sing I once was blind but now I see, right?
 
Missionaries to the world?
Do you have a Scripture to that effect?
I can't be a fraud. History is my favorite subject in school. And Christ is in me, so we are united and what you do or say to the least of these my brethren you have done it unto me.
Jesus can't be a fraud.

Most of the 2nd half of Isaiah, Amos 9, Acts 13's quote of Isaiah, Jesus in Mt 23 (about the mess made by Judaism about this), Jesus' trainee group of 70--see the //s between Mt 10 and 24; it's the same guys to get the Gospel out to the nations, Rom 10B, Rom 15 about Christ serving Israel with a message that can go to the nations, Paul's 'I wish everyone was as I am except these chains' (as a missionary)...
That's 9 from casual memory. It goes on and on. Even you correctly noticed Pentecost's after effect: those people went home and both Jews and 'sebaomai' heard them talk about what happened. It is meant to pick up any Gentile help along the way.

"Favorite subject" is no guarantee of clear-sighted understanding. You need to realize the replacement theology that Judaizers created and start from there. Gal 3:15, 16 etc. Another form of it is found at the span of Rom 9-10.
 
Is that an Italian dish?
It means worship.
Yes, lots of worship at the synagogue.
They used to sing I once was blind but now I see, right?

It is a group of people in Acts called 'those who fear God.' I'm tired of your sound-byte level of understanding. Go do a complete study and get back to me tomorrow. M. Sanford THE COVENANT REVOLT, at Amazon.
 
Most of the 2nd half of Isaiah, Amos 9, Acts 13's quote of Isaiah, Jesus in Mt 23 (about the mess made by Judaism about this), Jesus' trainee group of 70--see the //s between Mt 10 and 24; it's the same guys to get the Gospel out to the nations, Rom 10B, Rom 15 about Christ serving Israel with a message that can go to the nations, Paul's 'I wish everyone was as I am except these chains' (as a missionary)...
That's 9 from casual memory. It goes on and on. Even you correctly noticed Pentecost's after effect: those people went home and both Jews and 'sebaomai' heard them talk about what happened. It is meant to pick up any Gentile help along the way.

"Favorite subject" is no guarantee of clear-sighted understanding. You need to realize the replacement theology that Judaizers created and start from there. Gal 3:15, 16 etc. Another form of it is found at the span of Rom 9-10.
Don't tell me about the Scripture, quote it. A sample will do.
But know that the Old Testament Scriptures were written to and for the Herew/Jews in covenant with God.
The Pentateuch was written to and for Israel.
The Psalms were written by Jews in covenant to and for other Jews in covenant, and the prophets were sent to and for Israel.
Same with the New Testament writings.
Jewish Christians writing to Jewish Christians about their Jewish Messiah.
Salvation is of the Jews for a reason.
 
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